Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Reignman

When the province has a perimeter interchange under repair for two years as they currently do with two on the south perimeter, you would think they would toss a few more bucks in and resurface the loops that are so bad they rattle your teeth out. But not here.

On the North Perimeter - Main St Interchange and Henderson Hwy Interchange they just finished resurfacing the cloverleaf loops last week.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by drew

Winnipeg's (and southern Manitoba in general) road woes are a combination of a lack of funding, and quite possibly the worst possible combination of climate and soil conditions on the ENTIRE PLANET.

Extended periods of freeze/thaw, fall and spring? Check
20 to 50 feet of solid, highly plastic clay on which to build roads? Check
Extreme heat in the summer and cold in the winter? Check
Salt in the winter? Check
Snow clearing equipment damaging road surfaces, curbs, sidewalks? Check.

Are we honestly expecting roads to survive like "everywhere else" under these conditions with the same, likely less funding here in Winnipeg? I don't. I also don't support ear marking massive money on costly road infrastructure that will be difficult to maintain over the long run. Especially in a cash strapped province.

Deal with the bumps.

Yeah, we are so different than North Dakota.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by drew

Oregon doesn't freeze.

Wyoming is a hugely wealthy state.

Winnipeg's (and southern Manitoba in general) road woes are a combination of a lack of funding, and quite possibly the worst possible combination of climate and soil conditions on the ENTIRE PLANET.

Extended periods of freeze/thaw, fall and spring? Check
20 to 50 feet of solid, highly plastic clay on which to build roads? Check
Extreme heat in the summer and cold in the winter? Check
Salt in the winter? Check
Snow clearing equipment damaging road surfaces, curbs, sidewalks? Check.

Are we honestly expecting roads to survive like "everywhere else" under these conditions with the same, likely less funding here in Winnipeg? I don't. I also don't support ear marking massive money on costly road infrastructure that will be difficult to maintain over the long run. Especially in a cash strapped province.

Deal with the bumps.

Someone posting with facts and realities of the infrastructure problems we face and why we may not compare to other US and Canadian jurisdictions. Good post.

The I'm so pissed Sh...t is old and tiresome.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by Cyro

Someone posting with facts and realities of the infrastructure problems we face and why we may not compare to other US and Canadian jurisdictions. Good post.

The I'm so pissed Sh...t is old and tiresome.

Yup...let's all just learn to drive to the conditions and stop the bitching and whining. Let's just focus on the positives. Oh wait...hitting a massive pothole at 20 km an hour is really no different than hitting it at 60, both are potentially very damaging to the suspension.

Also, my understanding is that bomberjet was not only comparing road conditions, but the road infrastructure as well. The lack of proper infrastructure on much the perimeter in particular is unbeleivable. South especially. Between the multiple traffic lights (with more coming soon to an expressway near you) and left turns through the median out of the passing lane, there is no doubt that is the most dangerous highway I have ever driven. Many have died due to these issues, and sadly very likely many more to come. Is this acceptable to you too?

[drew]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Yeah, we are so different than North Dakota.

You think the soil and climate conditions in Winnipeg and North Dakota are the same? Prove it.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by Biff

On the North Perimeter - Main St Interchange and Henderson Hwy Interchange they just finished resurfacing the cloverleaf loops last week.

Thanks Biff, that is great news. I know the Main St loops were in a definite state of disrepair.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by drew

You think the soil and climate conditions in Winnipeg and North Dakota are the same? Prove it.

And North Dakota is also in the midst of an oil boom. They have wealth and they are pouring it into roads. And they have the Interstate. I'd say ND is a vastly different kettle of fish than MB.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Reignman

Yup...let's all just learn to drive to the conditions and stop the bitching and whining. Oh wait...hitting a massive pothole at 20 km an hour is really no different than hitting it at 60, both are potentially very damaging to the suspension.

Also, my understanding is that bomberjet was not only comparing road conditions, but the road infrastructure as well. The lack of proper infrastructure on much the perimeter in particular is unbeleivable. South in particular. Between the multiple traffic lights (with more coming soon to an expressway near you) and left turns through the median out of the passing lane, there is no doubt that is the most dangerous highway I have ever driven. Many have died due to these issues, and sadly very likely many more to come. Is this acceptable to you too?

Potholes/Sinkholes are a coast to coast problem.
Please don't use a posters handle when someone is making a generlization comment on a page long tirade with many posters involved.

I don't think about it as others due because I don't let it effect me personally, as a long time professional work related driver, and in personal driving situations, I can handle Manitoba's roads without much of a problem. Do they need improvements and more funding, sure.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

And North Dakota is also in the midst of an oil boom. They have wealth and they are pouring it into roads. And they have the Interstate. I'd say ND is a vastly different kettle of fish than MB.

I agree. ND is better off given that they received federal money for their major roads (allowing the money that would have gone into routes like I-29 and 95 to go into state highways), and now that this funding may be drying off, well hello oil revenues. Add the fact that ND is considerably smaller than Manitoba and you do have a significantly different situation.

I don't know about the soil and climate details but certainly they benefit from a much different political reality than we have in Manitoba.

But that said, ND's situation doesn't excuse the lack of appropriate transportation infrastructure within the City of Winnipeg itself, where the vast majority of people and traffic in this province are. The Winnipeg CMA is around the 800,000 mark but we arguably have the transportation infrastructure of a city half that size - in addition to highways, rapid transit is conspicuous by its absence too, and even places much smaller than Winnipeg like Kitchener-Waterloo are building proper RT while we twiddle our thumbs.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Reignman

Also, my understanding is that bomberjet was not only comparing road conditions, but the road infrastructure as well. The lack of proper infrastructure on much the perimeter in particular is unbeleivable. South in particular. Between the multiple traffic lights (with more coming soon to an expressway near you) and left turns through the median out of the passing lane, there is no doubt that is the most dangerous highway I have ever driven. Many have died due to these issues, and sadly very likely many more to come. Is this acceptable to you too?

My posts previously were strictly aimed at the pothole crowd.

As for proper infrastructure, yes, obviously it is below par in Manitoba. I don't think you will find any disagreement there.

But again, it costs us more to build and maintain these roads/bridges/etc than basically anywhere else. We cannot just say "let's build great roads!" and voila it will happen. The money has to come from somewhere. Where should it come from?

As for the south perimeter being the "most dangerous highway I have ever driven". Come on. It is a 4 lane divided highway on land that is as flat as a pancake. There aren't even any trees to obstruct your view. Where are all these fatalities you bring up? Certainly, being the most dangerous highway, I assume would be fatal accidents every couple days... weeks... months? Is the media not reporting them?

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by drew

My posts previously were strictly aimed at the pothole crowd.

As for proper infrastructure, yes, obviously it is below par in Manitoba. I don't think you will find any disagreement there.

But again, it costs us more to build and maintain these roads/bridges/etc than basically anywhere else. We cannot just say "let's build great roads!" and voila it will happen. The money has to come from somewhere. Where should it come from?

As for the south perimeter being the "most dangerous highway I have ever driven". Come on. It is a 4 lane divided highway on land that is as flat as a pancake. There aren't even any trees to obstruct your view. Where are all these fatalities you bring up? Certainly, being the most dangerous highway, I assume would be fatal accidents every couple days... weeks... months? Is the media not reporting them?

You're right...I should have said most dangerous divided highway. I cannot recall another divided high speed route where there are left turns allowed without a turning lane. And of course light after light after light...

I understand the lack of financial resources in Manitoba. No questioning that. However if we cannot afford to build things right (as in intersections on 100/101 with an interchange) then my opinion is there shouldn't be any intersection at all. Does Kenaston really need to be connected to the perimeter right now, adding another traffic light a stones throw from the Waverley lights?

It's more the decisions being made (or lack of them) that piss me off.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by drew

You think the soil and climate conditions in Winnipeg and North Dakota are the same? Prove it.

Do you seriously think soil conditions respect political boundaries? Do you think weather does too?

It's all part of the Red River basin. Roads west of Emerson are pitiful, roads west of Pembina are quite good. Same eastward.

[roccerfeller]

Perimeter does need a serious re-look at.

Its flawed in many aspects. If there was some serious will to do something about it, somehow the cash could be either mustered up or saved away, with the sole focus to do something about it - or at least working towards doing something about it

[bomberjet]

My whole point was that Manitoba's major highway system is shit. All the reasons I posted add up to be problems for everybody. If the Perimeter was grade separated the whole way, but had some bumpy stretches, it would be a different story. But it's stop lights, potholes, no acceleration/deceleration lanes, etc. It's the same olds we've all outlined many times before.

And yes Cyro, I don't like to be the guy that bitches about this time and time again. But everytime I leave the Province and come back to the ancient roadway system, it's depressing..

[Biff]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

Perimeter does need a serious re-look at.

Its flawed in many aspects. If there was some serious will to do something about it, somehow the cash could be either mustered up or saved away, with the sole focus to do something about it - or at least working towards doing something about it

The South Perimeter currently has close to $400 million approved for upgrades in the next 5 years. That does not include the $200-250 million approved for the Headingley Bypass in the next 5 years as well.

My hope is that things will get started right away before this pot of cash potentially dries up. I speak with a high up at MIT Highways regularly and there is no one more eager to get things going than him. The problem now is that they have never had the good fortune of this much money thrown at them and they are now struggling to get things designed and out the door as quickly as possible. He knows how quickly this money could disappear and wants to get the base foundation dirt flying on a number of interchanges on the south Perimeter as early as next year.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by Biff

The problem now is that they have never had the good fortune of this much money thrown at them and they are now struggling to get things designed and out the door as quickly as possible. He knows how quickly this money could disappear and wants to get the base foundation dirt flying on a number of interchanges on the south Perimeter as early as next year.

A number of interchanges on south perimeter?? I know the McGillivary diamond has been announced but have not heard anything beyond that. Do you know any specifics? Please please please tell me St Mary's is one of the approved interchanges...

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Reignman

A number of interchanges on south perimeter?? I know the McGillivary diamond has been announced but have not heard anything beyond that. Do you know any specifics? Please please please tell me St Mary's is one of the approved interchanges...

Reconstruction of 100/Wilkes
New @ 100/McGillivray
New @ 100/330/Brady - a joint interchange
New @ 100/St Mary's
New @ 100/St Anne's

They might not all get constructed this round but they want the base and alignment work started for the interchanges with this round of infrastructure funding. The big push is to get the median widened and new lanes built from Wilkes to Hwy 1 East and all minor access roads closed. 100/McGillivray will likely be built within the next 2 years.

[Cyro]

Good couple of updates Biff. Straight to the point and informative.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

But everytime I leave the Province and come back to the ancient roadway system, it's depressing..

Bummer.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

Reconstruction of 100/Wilkes
New @ 100/McGillivray
New @ 100/330/Brady - a joint interchange
New @ 100/St Mary's
New @ 100/St Anne's

They might not all get constructed this round but they want the base and alignment work started for the interchanges with this round of infrastructure funding. The big push is to get the median widened and new lanes built from Wilkes to Hwy 1 East and all minor access roads closed. 100/McGillivray will likely be built within the next 2 years.

Maybe you mentioned this before but I can't quite remember - when you say new lanes, is that going from 4 to 6? And if so, I wonder why only to Wilkes instead of right up to, say, Portage?

In any event, I will be glad to see a new interchange go up on what is a very treacherous stretch of highway, even if it is a very simple diamond. Wouldn't the AADT volumes call for something a little more complex, though? I associate diamonds with small junctions with country roads, not major trunk highways even if they are only 2 lanes as it is in this case.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

Maybe you mentioned this before but I can't quite remember - when you say new lanes, is that going from 4 to 6? And if so, I wonder why only to Wilkes instead of right up to, say, Portage?

When they are widening the median they have to construct a new set of lanes to the south of the existing EB Perimeter lanes. They will then move the WB lanes to the old EB lanes and rip out and redo the old WB lanes (like how the fix the Interstates in the US). Then they will remove the now middle set of lanes and finish with a widened median. While doing this the road bed will be constructed to allow future widening to 6 lanes from Roblin Blvd to Hwy 1 East.........I hope that made sense.

I am not sure if the recently redone 100/Assiniboine river crossing was built to accommodate 6 lanes.