Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

Maybe it's time to jack up the fuel tax. It has gone up once in the last 21 years... from 11.5 to 14 cents a litre back in 2012. Considering the pump price of fuel has almost tripled in that time, a tax of 25 to 35 cents a litre would seem more reasonable. That would certainly help pay for road improvements while simultaneously reducing demand for road space by encouraging people to drive less.

Maybe it's time some of you guys start to realize that it's taxes that are driving people and business out of Manitoba, soon this socialist paradise will have to start cutting back on the many socialist services it provides because we are reaching the point where those who actually work in Manitoba don't have much more to give! My retirement plan doesn't include still living in Manitoba!

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by rypinion

Wired magazine talks about one study:

http://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-tr...social_twitter

I said scientific. That article is as full of malarkey as the Bible.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Riverman

I said scientific. That article is as full of malarkey as the Bible.

LOL! No kidding, ask anyone in Vancouver how much they love the fact that their city lacks a freeway system!

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

LOL! No kidding, ask anyone in Vancouver how much they love the fact that their city lacks a freeway system!

Vancouver moves way more people using much less space and cost than if they had an extensive freeway system.

[esquire]

Yeah, I don't know if Vancouver is exactly the example I'd cite of a city suffering for lack of a freeway.

[njaohnt]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Gasoline taxes don't go towards road construction, they go into general revenue. Which means more social workers and administrators, or whichever union is sucking hardest on the government at the time.

Are there examples of this happening in Manitoba?

[njaohnt]

I just saw the plans for the 59 and 101 interchange. (http://biketothefuture.org/attachmen...publicinfo.pdf)

I don't like it.
#1 The DeVries intersection is fine, you can only turn right, anyway, so I don't think that will be an issue.
#2 The roads are mostly realigned, and they don't have to be. It seems as if the traffic eastbound to northbound is huge, and it isn't.
#3 Six lanes! Why would they waste money on six lanes here, while there are many highways that need to be four lanes, and roads that have lots of traffic, and need more lanes. Only to change to four lanes a little bit out. I want to know if there is anyone here who would rather have six lanes and a signal at 202, than an interchange at 202, and four lanes on 101, and 59.

EDIT: forgot to mention that it looks like the Fargo interstate interchange. Six lanes, and a three-stack overpass, without the traffic.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by njaohnt

Are there examples of this happening in Manitoba?

Gasoline taxes go into general revenue. And yes, this is in Manitoba.

[Biff]

njaohnt, Sorry to correct you but that plan has been scrapped. MMM Group has been granted a new contract to design whatever cost effectively can be built there. The former plan showed in the link tried to save as much of the original geometry as possible. MMM Group has the right to a blank slate.......as long as it gets designed and construction started by May 2015.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

njaohnt, Sorry to correct you but that plan has been scrapped. MMM Group has been granted a new contract to design whatever cost effectively can be built there. The former plan showed in the link tried to save as much of the original geometry as possible. MMM Group has the right to a blank slate.......as long as it gets designed and construction started by May 2015.

This is going to be at least the 3rd new design for this interchange in the last 20 years, no?!?

[cllew]

3 revisions of the intersection plans sounds about right

[njaohnt]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Gasoline taxes go into general revenue. And yes, this is in Manitoba.

So gas "means more social workers and administrators, or whichever union is sucking hardest on the government at the time."?

[njaohnt]

Originally Posted by Biff

njaohnt, Sorry to correct you but that plan has been scrapped. MMM Group has been granted a new contract to design whatever cost effectively can be built there. The former plan showed in the link tried to save as much of the original geometry as possible. MMM Group has the right to a blank slate.......as long as it gets designed and construction started by May 2015.

It looks like construction has already begun, and the picture on MMM Group's is the same as the one in the link. Are they still changing the designs while they have started moving the dirt?

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by njaohnt

So gas "means more social workers and administrators, or whichever union is sucking hardest on the government at the time."?

Don't be silly, I misunderstood your question.

Manitoba added 5% to the public sector while private sector employment fell 1.4% There is no need for this, bloating the public sector has been the NDP's schtick since they were elected. This is a well known fact.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by njaohnt

It looks like construction has already begun, and the picture on MMM Group's is the same as the one in the link. Are they still changing the designs while they have started moving the dirt?

Yeah, that is a strange one. They started moving that dirt before the ink on the contact was dry so MMM group hadn't even done a design yet. I'm not saying that the finished product won't look like that but for example the Pioneer Greenway pedestrian overpass into East St Paul is now included in the scope of the project. We will have to wait and see.

[UPP]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, I don't know if Vancouver is exactly the example I'd cite of a city suffering for lack of a freeway.

Not so sure about that. I was in Vancity a couple weeks ago and got stranded in Surrey for 4 hours because the Skytrain was down for the second time in 3 business days. People in the lower mainland are completely fed up with the transit system there.

[njaohnt]

Originally Posted by rypinion

Once the Kenaston and St Mary's Roads have their traffic problems fixed, traffic will increase (due to available supply) and in a couple of years will be as "bad" as it is now.

Not if we make them freeways!
Kenaston freeway ~$900 million
+
St Mary's "freeway"(interchanges at Dunkirk, Fermor, and St Anne's) ~$500 million
+
Lagimodiere interchanges ~$600 million
=
$2 billion, 20 years of five cent gas tax, and the major traffic problems are gone.
(or 10 cent gas tax for ten years)

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by njaohnt

Not if we make them freeways!
Kenaston freeway ~$900 million
+
St Mary's "freeway"(interchanges at Osborne, Fermor, and St Anne's) ~$500 million
+
Lagimodiere interchanges ~$600 million
=
$2 billion, 20 years of five cent gas tax, and the major traffic problems are gone.
(or 10 cent gas tax for ten years)

Why would making St Mary's a freeway be anywhere near the top of the priority list?

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by njaohnt

Not if we make them freeways!
Kenaston freeway ~$900 million
+
St Mary's "freeway"(interchanges at Osborne, Fermor, and St Anne's) ~$500 million
+
Lagimodiere interchanges ~$600 million
=
$2 billion, 20 years of five cent gas tax, and the major traffic problems are gone.
(or 10 cent gas tax for ten years)

If it's that simple, I wonder why nobody has thought of this before?

I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I thought latent and generated/induced demand were well accepted concepts in the transportation engineering and planning professions? i.e. build a bigger road and latent and generated demand will fill it. There is lots of research to support this concept.

See the bibliography in the linked report for example:

http://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.pdf

[njaohnt]

Originally Posted by Reignman

Why would making St Mary's a freeway be anywhere near the top of the priority list?

If you look in the Transportation Master Plan St. Mary's is in red. Is there something worse in the city?