Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by elly63

And that's the part that gets me, it shouldn't be seen as being just for 10 games of the CFL season.

I posted a similar ill worded poll at the Halifax Stadium thread. It skews the poll by posting the questions as being for or against either a "CFL" or "football" stadium.

The word has not been successfully transmitted about the other stakeholders, like minor rugby, football and soccer, concert and trade show events.

Like it or not, however, it is going to be.

The Stamps will be the dominant users of the stadium, and all the upgrades that go into it will be done to better service their fans. McMahon is a perfectly functional stadium for the UCalgary teams that attract 2K or less per game; it is only when it gets crowded that its issues become noticeable.

Furthermore, the stadium in its present form exists solely because of the Stamps. I'm sure UCalgary would be absolutely fine to tear it down and build a 5K stadium with bleachers, outhouses, and a shipping container converted into a concession because that would serve its purposes just fine. The fact that the stadium is used for other sports doesn't paint over the recognition that any and all upgrades are primarily to serve the Stampeders and their fans.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Like it or not, however, it is going to be.

The Stamps will be the dominant users of the stadium, and all the upgrades that go into it will be done to better service their fans. McMahon is a perfectly functional stadium for the UCalgary teams that attract 2K or less per game; it is only when it gets crowded that its issues become noticeable.

Furthermore, the stadium in its present form exists solely because of the Stamps. I'm sure UCalgary would be absolutely fine to tear it down and build a 5K stadium with bleachers, outhouses, and a shipping container converted into a concession because that would serve its purposes just fine. The fact that the stadium is used for other sports doesn't paint over the recognition that any and all upgrades are primarily to serve the Stampeders and their fans.

I don’t get the impression that the Stamps or their fans count for much anymore in Calgary, so I’d put the chances of a new stadium there in the foreseeable future as just about nil.

[craner]

Originally Posted by esquire

In Winnipeg it took about a little over 8 years to open the MTS Centre and then Investors Group Field after that. Once the rink opens, the time for having the conversation about the stadium will begin. By that point McMahon will be over 60 years old...

McMahon will be 60 years old in 2020.

[jawagord]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I don’t get the impression that the Stamps or their fans count for much anymore in Calgary, so I’d put the chances of a new stadium there in the foreseeable future as just about nil.

Given where the Argos and Alouettes play (BMO soccer field and 100+ year old track and field Stade Percival-Molson ) McMahon really isn’t the worst CFL stadium. The city and the team can’t finance a new stadium without a huge contribution from the province (that’s essentially how they did it in Vancouver, Regina and Winnipeg) and that’s not going to happen anytime soon under a Kenny or (heaven forbid) another Notley government.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...loan-1.4839478

https://thetyee.ca/News/2014/03/28/BC-Place-Boondoggle/

https://leaderpost.com/news/saskatch...ont-make-money

[esquire]

I fully expect a proper football stadium project to get off the ground in Calgary during the next boom period.

Not that my preference matters much, but I'd like to see an outdoor stadium built instead of piggybacking on the fieldhouse project... the fieldhouse concepts we've seen so far make it seem like a big drab warehouse... like a big Fargodome or a mini Alamodome. Neither is really all that appealing except for the coldest November games. Leave the fieldhouse for track and field and get an appropriate venue for football.

Also, FWIW I'd probably put McMahon at the second-worst position on the list of CFL stadiums. Montreal is worse but it has that Wrigley/Fenway thing going on where it is just so old that its flaws are overlooked. BMO is a little awkward for football but I don't see how it wouldn't place ahead of McMahon... it has the full range of modern stadium stuff. That said, I don't think McMahon is so bad that it's a reason not to go to games.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Montreal is worse but it has that Wrigley/Fenway thing going on where it is just so old that its flaws are overlooked. .

But only barely so, if we're being honest.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

Also, FWIW I'd probably put McMahon at the second-worst position on the list of CFL stadiums. Montreal is worse but it has that Wrigley/Fenway thing going on where it is just so old that its flaws are overlooked. BMO is a little awkward for football but I don't see how it wouldn't place ahead of McMahon... it has the full range of modern stadium stuff. That said, I don't think McMahon is so bad that it's a reason not to go to games.

esquire it's a soccer stadium - it has to be worse.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

esquire it's a soccer stadium - it has to be worse.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here?

The awkwardness at BMO comes mainly from the field... 2 yards clipped from each end zone and the one end zone with artificial turf. I'd say it's more of an issue for the players than for the fans. From what I can see of the stadium itself in terms of the fan experience, it looks pretty well along the lines of what the other new Canadian stadiums offer in terms of amenities.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm not sure what you're getting at here?

The only reason given for BMO apparently being worse than McMahon by jawagord was that it's primary function is for soccer. I have a hard time believing that a facility is somehow worse because a couple of yards are lopped off.

Originally Posted by esquire

The awkwardness at BMO comes mainly from the field... 2 yards clipped from each end zone and the one end zone with artificial turf. I'd say it's more of an issue for the players than for the fans. From what I can see of the stadium itself in terms of the fan experience, it looks pretty well along the lines of what the other new Canadian stadiums offer in terms of amenities.

Pretty much. It's only unsuitable for gridiron in terms of the endzones - there's nothing else really abnormal about the stadium. Not sure why BMO gets the hate it gets aside from being located in Toronto. I've never been to McMahon but everything i've heard tells me it's an old stadium in dire need of replacing. Molson is old and small and cramped with bench seating. Both seem to be worse stadiums than BMO by some far margin.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Pretty much. It's only unsuitable for gridiron in terms of the endzones - there's nothing else really abnormal about the stadium. Not sure why BMO gets the hate it gets aside from being located in Toronto. I've never been to McMahon but everything i've heard tells me it's an old stadium in dire need of replacing. Molson is old and small and cramped with bench seating. Both seem to be worse stadiums than BMO by some far margin.

I would agree with the last sentence.

That said, I've been to McMahon a few times and I found it pleasant enough. No question that it's an older stadium, but I found it to be a perfectly fine place to watch a game. I certainly thought it was a lot better than CanadInns and old Mosaic in their later years.

When it comes to McMahon, I honestly wonder if people aren't just tired of/bored with the place.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by esquire

I fully expect a proper football stadium project to get off the ground in Calgary during the next boom period.

Not that my preference matters much, but I'd like to see an outdoor stadium built instead of piggybacking on the fieldhouse project... the fieldhouse concepts we've seen so far make it seem like a big drab warehouse... like a big Fargodome or a mini Alamodome. Neither is really all that appealing except for the coldest November games. Leave the fieldhouse for track and field and get an appropriate venue for football.

Also, FWIW I'd probably put McMahon at the second-worst position on the list of CFL stadiums. Montreal is worse but it has that Wrigley/Fenway thing going on where it is just so old that its flaws are overlooked. BMO is a little awkward for football but I don't see how it wouldn't place ahead of McMahon... it has the full range of modern stadium stuff. That said, I don't think McMahon is so bad that it's a reason not to go to games.

Hopefully the fieldhouse ends up more alike a small Forsyth Barr Stadium https://www.vector-foiltec.com/zh-ha...-barr-stadium/ . McMahon, in the expensive seats it is alright. As the seats get cheaper, the leg room shrinks, and since they don't really list where that happens beyond a drop from the red seats to the blue seats I avoid going.

[esquire]

^ Speaking of the blue seats, those are the biggest eyesore in any Canadian stadium. The whole place is red and then you have these patches of blue seats sticking out like a sore thumb. How on earth did that ever happen?

[craner]

^I agree about the blue seats - I always assumed they must have got a cheap deal on them or something like that.
I also agree that watching a game at McMahon from the red seats isn't bad at all - great sight lines. I still would like slightly more leg room, seat width & cup holders though.
And finally, I agree personally that an outdoor football stadium is preferred. Failing that, the example MalcomTucker posted would be pretty cool.


Incidentally, I haven't heard a peep about this proposal from back in January:
http://https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/former-mayoral-candidate-developer-selling-new-mcmahon-centre-project

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by craner

Incidentally, I haven't heard a peep about this proposal from back in January:
http://https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/former-mayoral-candidate-developer-selling-new-mcmahon-centre-project

That 'developer' hadn't talked to the facility owner. I would say it is dead, but it was never alive in the first place.

[q12]

Halifax Council vote for CFL stadium 10 - 7

[JHikka]

Well, kind of. They voted to conditionally approve $20M towards a stadium dependent on future deliberations. The proponents (Maritime Football) have to find and acquire land for a stadium and then have that land-use approved. Essentially, this will be coming back to council in 3-to-6 months as outlined by Dube in a best-case timeline. Council didn't really vote for a stadium - they voted for conditionally supporting providing $20M for a stadium dependent on location and future use.

$20M is still less than half (and potentially less than a third) of what the proponents were looking for in municipal funding for the stadium itself; ie $20M from the municipality likely won't be enough to have the project progress on its own. Staff during deliberations mentioned that another level of government would be needed for the project to move forward.

[q12]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Well, kind of. They voted to conditionally approve $20M towards a stadium dependent on future deliberations. The proponents (Maritime Football) have to find and acquire land for a stadium and then have that land-use approved. Essentially, this will be coming back to council in 3-to-6 months as outlined by Dube in a best-case timeline. Council didn't really vote for a stadium - they voted for conditionally supporting providing $20M for a stadium dependent on location and future use.

$20M is still less than half (and potentially less than a third) of what the proponents were looking for in municipal funding for the stadium itself; ie $20M from the municipality likely won't be enough to have the project progress on its own.

Halifax council was really the major hurdle in my opinion with their historical negative approach to this type of thing so this is a HUGE victory as a resident of Halifax let me celebrate goddamn it.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by q12

Halifax council was really the major hurdle in my opinion with their historical negative approach to this type of thing so this is a HUGE victory as a resident of Halifax let me celebrate goddamn it.

Council will be voting again once a new site is found by the proponents of the project. The vote today was essentially to continue considering the proposal of the municipality funding the project with $20M. I appreciate your enthusiasm but this process is far from completed.

[Acajack]

I read that the proponents were looking for 22 million from the City (well, Halifax Regional Municipality, which is the "City" to the rest of us), so 20 million checks that one off I gather.

As I said in the other thread I assume if that's the amount they put out there that there are other anticipated sources for the rest of the 100 million dollars including the province, some other institutions (St Mary's U?) and the private sector. But probably not the feds unless I am missing something.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I read that the proponents were looking for 22 million from the City (well, Halifax Regional Municipality, which is the "City" to the rest of us), so 20 million checks that one off I gather.

Staff noted that the original ask from the proponents was from between $40M-$70M in funding (see below). Staff proposed $20M as it's much safer. They also proposed that the city does not own the stadium, or operate the stadium, and encourage the proponents to own, operate, and pay taxes on a potential stadium.

Originally Posted by CAO Report, Halifax Stadium Proposal

While a stadium would add a valuable piece of infrastructure to Halifax, the financial options proposed by SSE for the stadium require a considerable amount of public funds and all are dependent upon the success of an untested Halifax CFL franchise and Halifax market. As such, the options proposed present considerable risk to the municipal taxpayer. At the same time, partnership with a private sector sponsor offers the chance for the community to acquire this infrastructure with the private partner carrying the majority of the cost and risk. As such, the CAO is recommending a one-time payment of $20M, upon substantial completion of the stadium, with Regional Council providing the CAO with authority to negotiate a contribution agreement with SSE per the terms in Table 1 of this report. As such, the total cost for the recommendation would be $20 million, considerably less than the SSE proposed costs of $41M to $79M. It is not recommended that HRM take on the financial implications of an owner on capital and ongoing maintenance costs.

https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default...edium=referral

Originally Posted by Acajack

As I said in the other thread I assume if that's the amount they put out there that there are other anticipated sources for the rest of the 100 million dollars including the province, some other institutions (St Mary's U?) and the private sector. But probably not the feds unless I am missing something.

AFAIK the proponents have never committed an actual dollar figure for their contribution throughout this process. The only figure they've stated is the total cost of the stadium which has been brought down from $170-190M to $110-$120M.