HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 7:41 PM
MacLac MacLac is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Beaumont, AB
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Western Alienation is more of a thing when Alberta's cyclical one horse economy tanks like clockwork. and some of the drunken sailors haven't saved their money or realize that they have to upgrade their skill set behond grade 10 education and rigging and the province itself needs to diversify. Here's my tiny violin for some of the boosters on here rubbing in all the awesomeness Alberta is, while Ontarians were losing their manufacturing jobs left and right.That. or celebrating how wonderful the weather was when Ontario was in a midst of a record crippling blizzard.
And you say AB is a "one horse economy?" Maybe ON should diversify it's economy away from manufacturing. Cuz out here, we're sick and tired of hearing how a car maker is shutting down the 3rd shift of some crappy minivan...a loss of 500 jobs. Whereas here over 100,000 jobs are gone cuz of Mr.Castro Jr.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 7:43 PM
MacLac MacLac is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Beaumont, AB
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by flar View Post
It's Canada's energy, which happens to be located in the Athabasca region and has made Alberta rich, but won't forever.

Short answer for Alberta and Saskatchewan: diversify beyond bitumen and potash. Nobody is stopping you.

Very little sympathy in the ROC. Even less appetite for this to dominate federal politics ad nauseum.
"Made AB rich?" Sure did, but also made the rest of the country rich....ie. QC.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 7:47 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Alienation is part of the Canadian mantra, and has existed for as long as the country existed.

1) - Joe Howe wanted to take Nova Scotia out of Confederation from day one.
2) - John A. MacDonald's National Policy in the 1870s destroyed the Maritimes economy and led to eastern alienation.
3) - Newfoundland's support for confederation in 1949 was so lukewarm, they had to have a referendum question with three possible choices in order to ensure that the confederation option would win.
4) - Vive le Quebec libre!!!
5) - Northern Ontario definitely feels ignored by the south
6) - Red River Rebellion
7) - Batoche.
8) - National Energy Policy. Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark!!!
9) - Current pipeline debate
10) - Ongoing aboriginal tensions, MMIWG, cultural genocide.

Right???

Burn it down. Everybody wins!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 7:53 PM
ZeDgE ZeDgE is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Western Alienation is more of a thing when Alberta's cyclical one horse economy tanks like clockwork. and some of the drunken sailors haven't saved their money or realize that they have to upgrade their skill set behond grade 10 education and rigging and the province itself needs to diversify. Here's my tiny violin for some of the boosters on here rubbing in all the awesomeness Alberta is, while Ontarians were losing their manufacturing jobs left and right.That. or celebrating how wonderful the weather was when Ontario was in a midst of a record crippling blizzard.
Hello pot.. this is kettle.

This garbage goes both ways, have seen it on this very forum also.

But lets break this down to some binary form as per usual these days, its us vs them or black vs white. Its alot more nuanced than that. Its clear however that there is a huge divide in this country (regional) and is only growing. The wexit stuff is ridiculous but I would be lying if I said I felt overly nationalistic towards Canada.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 7:54 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is online now
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by flar View Post
I say we just ignore it
I died a little death. Amazing. Probably my fave post of 2019.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Alienation is part of the Canadian mantra, and has existed for as long as the country existed.

...

3) - Newfoundland's support for confederation in 1949 was so lukewarm, they had to have a referendum question with three possible choices in order to ensure that the confederation option would win.
Initially, yes - but a return to independence still won, so the British forced a second referendum between "British Union" and "A Return to Responsible Government as It Existed During the Great Depression".

And even then, they could only swing 52% for Confederation.

*****

As for what can be done about Western alienation... nothing really needs to be done. The West will continue to become more and more influential as its population and number of seats increase. I think that's bad for Canada if Alberta and Saskatchewan remain so right wing. We'll end up with a situation where Quebec and the Atlantic provinces are like Scotland - constantly voting for left-wing parties but always ruled by right-wing ones. And in a federation like Canada with more power invested in Ottawa, that's even more destructive.

I don't think Canada in its current form will last more than a few centuries longer. It'll become a looser federation like the European Union, or nothing at all.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 7:55 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cala Ghearraidh
Posts: 22,842
Jesus Christ, what a stupid fucking conversation. A bunch of smug easterners peddling their bullshit, and a bunch of angry westerners doing the same.

And somehow there is a question as to whether or not Western Alienation exists? Let alone somehow a lack of knowledge that it has existed for a century? Holy hell.
__________________
Strong & Free

Mohkínstsis — 1.6 million people at the Foothills of the Rocky Mountains, 400 high-rises, a 300-metre SE to NW climb, over 1000 kilometres of pathways, with 20% of the urban area as parkland.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 7:59 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
Jesus Christ, what a stupid fucking conversation. A bunch of smug easterners peddling their bullshit, and a bunch of angry westerners doing the same.

And somehow there is a question as to whether or not Western Alienation exists? Let alone somehow a lack of knowledge that it has existed for a century? Holy hell.
Best post!

Also, shout out for the 'Holy hell' - reminds me of Oscar Leroy from Corner Gas.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 8:13 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
As for what can be done about Western alienation... nothing really needs to be done. The West will continue to become more and more influential as its population and number of seats increase. I think that's bad for Canada if Alberta and Saskatchewan remain so right wing. We'll end up with a situation where Quebec and the Atlantic provinces are like Scotland - constantly voting for left-wing parties but always ruled by right-wing ones. And in a federation like Canada with more power invested in Ottawa, that's even more destructive.

I don't think Canada in its current form will last more than a few centuries longer. It'll become a looser federation like the European Union, or nothing at all.
It depends how the rest of the world plays out in the next century.

If we looked at a century ago in 1919, the British Empire was still kicking and spanned a fair chunk of the globe. Today, they rule a few islands.

If the West looks to be swamped by those with different views (Communist China), we may just find that we like each other more than we think we do at this point in time. The Soviet Union was a catalyst for maintaining the post-WW2 order.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 8:45 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericmacm View Post
I believe one of the other large aspects of alienation is the population density disconnect between Ontario and Manitoba, which effectively turns Canada's 2 main population corridors into islands.
I don't mean to be negative but how much of a difference would this really make to the country as a whole? I think the real "disconnect" is that the main population centres are 1,000+ km apart. Adding some people in Northern Ontario won't make it significantly easier to get from Calgary to Toronto. Even the greatest rail service or highways would not be more convenient than the air travel we have already.

One factor that might be relevant is that Canada has had relatively little internal migration and a lot of immigration. A person whose parents immigrated to Canada is less likely to have personal ties to other provinces.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 8:59 PM
DizzyEdge's Avatar
DizzyEdge DizzyEdge is offline
My Spoon Is Too Big
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I don't mean to be negative but how much of a difference would this really make to the country as a whole? I think the real "disconnect" is that the main population centres are 1,000+ km apart. Adding some people in Northern Ontario won't make it significantly easier to get from Calgary to Toronto. Even the greatest rail service or highways would not be more convenient than the air travel we have already.

One factor that might be relevant is that Canada has had relatively little internal migration and a lot of immigration. A person whose parents immigrated to Canada is less likely to have personal ties to other provinces.
100% this. I have no idea how it could work, but I really wish Canada would make it easier for Canadians to visit other parts of our country, whether that is some sort of travel subsidy, creating an affordable and extensive train network, particularly in the west, or what.
__________________
Concerned about protecting Calgary's built heritage?
www.CalgaryHeritage.org
News - Heritage Watch - Forums
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 9:00 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is online now
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
It depends how the rest of the world plays out in the next century.

If we looked at a century ago in 1919, the British Empire was still kicking and spanned a fair chunk of the globe. Today, they rule a few islands.

If the West looks to be swamped by those with different views (Communist China), we may just find that we like each other more than we think we do at this point in time. The Soviet Union was a catalyst for maintaining the post-WW2 order.
We'll see. It depends (based on something I believe it was kool maudit who said) if Trump is the aberration, or Obama.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 9:04 PM
theman23's Avatar
theman23 theman23 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ville de Québec
Posts: 5,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I don't mean to be negative but how much of a difference would this really make to the country as a whole? I think the real "disconnect" is that the main population centres are 1,000+ km apart. Adding some people in Northern Ontario won't make it significantly easier to get from Calgary to Toronto. Even the greatest rail service or highways would not be more convenient than the air travel we have already.

One factor that might be relevant is that Canada has had relatively little internal migration and a lot of immigration. A person whose parents immigrated to Canada is less likely to have personal ties to other provinces.
Yeah. Outside of a few older folks who grew up in Saskatchewan decades ago, I've never met anyone in BC who has been to the part of the country east of Calgary but west of Toronto.
__________________
For entertainment purposes only. Not financial advice.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 9:12 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cala Ghearraidh
Posts: 22,842
In my generation it's even worse. The vast majority of people I know have only ever been to a maximum of 4 Canadian cities, while having been to far more US destinations.
__________________
Strong & Free

Mohkínstsis — 1.6 million people at the Foothills of the Rocky Mountains, 400 high-rises, a 300-metre SE to NW climb, over 1000 kilometres of pathways, with 20% of the urban area as parkland.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 9:20 PM
Bcasey25raptor's Avatar
Bcasey25raptor Bcasey25raptor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Vancouver Suburbs
Posts: 2,624
If albertans hate Canada that freaking much then we should just kick them out, Canada would be better off without the embarrassing cousins of Alberta.

I had some respect for alberta a few years ago, I began to become more pro alberta, but all this whining and bitching when the feds literally spend $4.5 BILLION OF OUR TAX DOLLARS on this bloody pipeline just to appease them has made me sour.

Let the alberta bastards freeze in the dark, kick them out.

So fucking sick of this.
__________________
River District Big Government progressive
~ Just Watch me
- Pierre Elliot Trudeau
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 9:27 PM
Rollerstud98 Rollerstud98 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
If albertans hate Canada that freaking much then we should just kick them out, Canada would be better off without the embarrassing cousins of Alberta.

I had some respect for alberta a few years ago, I began to become more pro alberta, but all this whining and bitching when the feds literally spend $4.5 BILLION OF OUR TAX DOLLARS on this bloody pipeline just to appease them has made me sour.

Let the alberta bastards freeze in the dark, kick them out.

So fucking sick of this.
Nobody in Alberta wanted those fucks to spend that money on a previously private investment that was chased away due to the dithering of Trudeau.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 9:28 PM
Bcasey25raptor's Avatar
Bcasey25raptor Bcasey25raptor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Vancouver Suburbs
Posts: 2,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
In my generation it's even worse. The vast majority of people I know have only ever been to a maximum of 4 Canadian cities, while having been to far more US destinations.
I grew up in Kelowna, I live in Vancouver.

I've travelled to Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, and lived in St John's newfoundland.

I've never been to the prairies outside of the Calgary area.

But I've been to canada's 4 largest cities and spent enough time in them to know that the east does NOT hate the west, but I saw so much hatred of the east in Calgary when I was there that I was shouted down when I called it out. I wasn't a well liked person there when I called out the bigotry for what it was. But I can only stomach being called a greenie hippy so many times.

Is everyone in alberta like that? no, but the working class white people my mother is friends with sure were.

Nowhere else in canada I have ever been have I experienced anything like that.

I want to believe alberta isn't like this, but my experiences say otherwise, and the rise of this treasonous wexit movement throws a wrench into the that idea making it harder and harder for me to respect and appreciate alberta.

I apolagize if I come off as a jerk here, I'm angry and fed up.

Western alienation? What about BC alienation from the prairies? I'm sick of being thrown into this category. The cons only won 34% of the vote in BC, almost identical to ontario. Libs, greens, and NDP combined won over 60% of the vote, thats the story no one is speaking of. BC has joined the laurentian consensus, we don't hate Canada and western alienation does NOT exist here like it does on the prairies.
__________________
River District Big Government progressive
~ Just Watch me
- Pierre Elliot Trudeau
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 9:32 PM
Bcasey25raptor's Avatar
Bcasey25raptor Bcasey25raptor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Vancouver Suburbs
Posts: 2,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollerstud98 View Post
Nobody in Alberta wanted those fucks to spend that money on a previously private investment that was chased away due to the dithering of Trudeau.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Trudeau could literally give you EVERYTHING you want and albertans would still want his head on a pike. We should just ignore you, wish Trudeau would take the lesson he should from this, ignore alberta, stop jeopardizing climate action for these dinosaurs, they will never vote for you.
__________________
River District Big Government progressive
~ Just Watch me
- Pierre Elliot Trudeau
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 9:48 PM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Trudeau could literally give you EVERYTHING you want and albertans would still want his head on a pike. We should just ignore you, wish Trudeau would take the lesson he should from this, ignore alberta, stop jeopardizing climate action for these dinosaurs, they will never vote for you.
With an attitude like this why would you want to stay lol.

I mean seriously it’s not that the west wants the east to do anything! They literally want the east to leave the west alone. The west doesn’t tell the east how to run it’s economy so where does the east get off telling the west what to do?

Western alienation isn’t because of gay rights or abortion, 90%+ of it is because the east is trying to run the west’s economy which the west believes is screwing things up. Go focus on Quebec’s cement plant or try to get yourselves off fossil fuels and diversify your economies away from building engines that burn fossil fuels.

And seriously why would the pollution the west makes affect you? You have Detroit right to your south why don’t you go focus on the closer target.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 9:49 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cala Ghearraidh
Posts: 22,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
If albertans hate Canada that freaking much then we should just kick them out, Canada would be better off without the embarrassing cousins of Alberta.

I had some respect for alberta a few years ago, I began to become more pro alberta, but all this whining and bitching when the feds literally spend $4.5 BILLION OF OUR TAX DOLLARS on this bloody pipeline just to appease them has made me sour.

Let the alberta bastards freeze in the dark, kick them out.

So fucking sick of this.
You're a fucking moron.
__________________
Strong & Free

Mohkínstsis — 1.6 million people at the Foothills of the Rocky Mountains, 400 high-rises, a 300-metre SE to NW climb, over 1000 kilometres of pathways, with 20% of the urban area as parkland.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 9:54 PM
Dengler Avenue's Avatar
Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is offline
Road Engineer Wannabe
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Côté Ouest de la Rivière des Outaouais
Posts: 8,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I don't mean to be negative but how much of a difference would this really make to the country as a whole? I think the real "disconnect" is that the main population centres are 1,000+ km apart. Adding some people in Northern Ontario won't make it significantly easier to get from Calgary to Toronto. Even the greatest rail service or highways would not be more convenient than the air travel we have already.

One factor that might be relevant is that Canada has had relatively little internal migration and a lot of immigration. A person whose parents immigrated to Canada is less likely to have personal ties to other provinces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
100% this. I have no idea how it could work, but I really wish Canada would make it easier for Canadians to visit other parts of our country, whether that is some sort of travel subsidy, creating an affordable and extensive train network, particularly in the west, or what.
It doesn’t help that domestic flights are more expensive than international...
__________________
My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
Disclaimer: Most of it is pure pie in the sky, so there's no need to be up in the arm about it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:53 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.