Odds of French language growth/revival in Louisiana cities?

[Capsicum]

Obviously the situation is not the same as in French Canada (Quebec, New Brunswick or even Francophone areas in other regional parts of Canada) with official government support, but do you think Louisiana French can either maintain itself or grow in the near to long term future in similar ways?

Do people moving to any of Louisiana's cities (I'm guessing the bigger ones probably not, but maybe those in smaller ones) ever learn French to fit in to the locals?

Or do you think the French language influence in Louisiana is destined to decline, or at least only be maintained at a "token", symbolic level, rather than living language of a large proportion of the masses, like how relatively few in Ireland really want to speak Irish fluently instead of English but still use its words and names on streets and places proudly?

[Centropolis]

if the fate of missouri french is any indication, the future is bleak. we had native french speakers until the second world war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss...ch?wprov=sfti1

[jd3189]

If Louisiana can attract immigrants from France or the Francophone countries in Africa, Haiti, etc, it may be able to retain that nature. But I don’t see that happening anytime soon. The Mississippi hinterlands as a whole are not as popping as they were a century ago.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by jd3189

If Louisiana can attract immigrants from France or the Francophone countries in Africa, Haiti, etc, it may be able to retain that nature. But I don’t see that happening anytime soon. The Mississippi hinterlands as a whole are not as popping as they were a century ago.

This kind of thing happened in Quebec, where now a flow of Francophone immigrants is helping sustain the culture (well aside from internal growth of the language being strong), unlike in the past. Historically, Quebecois, Acadians etc. actually emigrated away into the US (into New England particularly), thus French Canada actually lost people from emigration, not gained them. And historically, in places like Montreal, some immigrants like Italians, Greeks etc. would assimilate to English-speaking culture in Canada, not French, so that immigration took away or diluted French influence. This changed with the politics of the post 60s, 70s etc.

Now, people from France, Haiti and Francophone African countries helps immigration actually start adding to French influence in Quebec, not taking away from it.

I'm guessing, Louisiana or particular big cities like New Orleans, would have to undergo some similar shift where people moving there add to, rather than take away from the French influence.

I don't know if immigrants to Louisiana in the past like Italians ever tried to learn French or try and share some common ground with the Francophone locals, but I wonder if any would today.

According to this source, for Louisiana "The top countries of origin for immigrants were Mexico (14.5 percent of immigrants), Honduras (14.4 percent), Vietnam (12.8 percent), India (4.1 percent), and Cuba (3.8 percent)."

So not really Haiti or any majorly large-scale Francophone countries in there, although I wonder if from French Indochina, any Vietnamese immigrants who knew French coming to Louisiana ever tried to speak it with the locals to find common ground?

https://www.americanimmigrationcounc...s-in-louisiana

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

we had native french speakers until the second world war.

That was quite a severe humiliation to the entire French-speaking world indeed.

Even something more or less personal to all of us in France proper. Like you have no idea.
For instance, my grandpa was a professional military; a graduate from Saint-Cyr, a prestigious military school while he was only born to a poor Swiss worker (a slater) and a humble woman from the French Alps. His father killed himself from falling down from a roof when he still was a kid.
Nevertheless, he was brave, good at math and studying, and had to do a whole lot of efforts to get there and become a military officer. He is the best of our family in my opinion. A real generous and faithful hard worker and all.
And then... He spent almost 5 years in a motherfucking Nazi prison. The Germans wouldn't trust French captains like grandpa, so they strictly kept them locked in prison.
When he came back from Germany in 1945, he was as skinny as a martyred Jew, traumatized. He simply never talked about that, cause it was too humiliating.
He just left the military to lead an engineering career. That was much better for him.
There was no more food in Germany as of 1944, so you may figure how prisoners were treated...

Hey, you're not alone in the world. Everybody has a painful story somehow, anyhow.

Bah, no one cares anymore anyway. Not even my grandpa. The Germans just finally had their revenge, as Napoleon's army had severely humiliated them before.
The Germans are nothing much impressive to us. Only our neighbors.

[Sun Belt]

Odds are very low of a revival of French in Louisiana.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langua..._United_States

In addition, immigrants coming to America aren't coming from native French speaking nations in large volumes.

As of 2011, there were an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 people in Louisiana who speak French. By comparison, there were an estimated one million native French-speakers in Louisiana in about 1968. The dialect is now at risk of extinction as children are no longer taught it formally in schools.

Many question whether the Louisiana French language will survive another generation. Some residents of Acadiana are bilingual though, having learned French at home and English in school. Currently, Louisiana French is considered an endangered language.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_French

[lio45]

lol. How about "zero"? Even in Quebec it's not that easy.

On a somewhat related note, I'm somewhat considering a second home in Charleston or Savannah or New Orleans, and as someone who's a francophone, the idea that maybe I could sometimes use my language if I picked the latter is not something that I find plausible. (Thus, not a criterion.)

Maybe a few generations ago, it would be different, and the Sunbelt francophone enclaves of Florida could have gone there instead (people like me), if some sort of critical mass was there already. But now, forget it.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by lio45

lol. How about "zero"? Even in Quebec it's not that easy.

On a somewhat related note, I'm somewhat considering a second home in Charleston or Savannah or New Orleans, and as someone who's a francophone, the idea that maybe I could sometimes use my language if I picked the latter is not something that I find plausible. (Thus, not a criterion.)

Maybe a few generations ago, it would be different, and the Sunbelt francophone enclaves of Florida could have gone there instead (people like me), if some sort of critical mass was there already. But now, forget it.

in the case of both missouri and louisiana, french decline in the principle city preceded rural areas by many decades, if not a century. i’ve never heard french or franglish in new orleans that i can recall.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

in the case of both missouri and louisiana, french decline in the principle city preceded rural areas by many decades, if not a century. i’ve never heard french or franglish in new orleans that i can recall.

I sought old timers on purpose (and I got directed to this one specific social event on one given evening) while spending time in Lafayette, Louisiana in ~2004 and did find a few very old people who spoke some very weird French and had some short conversations with them.

I figured at the time that later in my life, this wouldn't be possible anymore (and I suppose I was correct; it's been a while since I've been in the area but none of these people are likely to be around anymore, 15+ years later) so I'm glad I did. Pretty unique experience.

Pretty sure I've shared that anecdote already on SSP, whenever this sort of discussion comes up

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by lio45

I sought old timers on purpose (and I got directed to this one specific social event on one given evening) while spending time in Lafayette, Louisiana in ~2004 and did find a few very old people who spoke some very weird French and had some short conversations with them.

I figured at the time that later in my life, this wouldn't be possible anymore (and I suppose I was correct; it's been a while since I've been in the area but none of these people are likely to be around anymore, 15+ years later) so I'm glad I did. Pretty unique experience.

Pretty sure I've shared that anecdote already on SSP, whenever this sort of discussion comes up

In the late 1960s and early 70s there were one or two low power AM radio stations in Cajun Country that broadcast mostly in Cajun French. It was an oddity even back then. I am sure those stations disappeared with the rest of AM radio. I used to tune in sometimes driving from NO to Texas.

[Acajack]

When I've been in Louisiana, upon learning that I speak French I've had locals go to great lengths to find me someone who can speak French with me - though I can get along in English just fine.

It's happened on more than one occasion so I guess it's a "thing" for some. Trying to demonstrate that French isn't completely dead there, I guess.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by lio45

lol. How about "zero"? Even in Quebec it's not that easy.

This is exactly what I was going to type.

Quebec tries with every fiber of their being to keep the French going and still struggles.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The North One

This is exactly what I was going to type.

Quebec tries with every fiber of their being to keep the French going and still struggles.

"Struggles" is probably too strong a term. French is pretty vibrant in Quebec even if it never really can be said to be "home free" given the context. I could give some examples but this thread is about Louisiana, not Quebec.

[C.]

Hilarious!

The most commonly spoken language in New Orleans (other than English) is probably Vietnamese. The city is also attracting many immigrants from Vietnam and their influence is starting to blend into the culture and food.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by C.

Hilarious!

The most commonly spoken language in New Orleans (other than English) is probably Vietnamese. The city is also attracting many immigrants from Vietnam and their influence is starting to blend into the culture and food.

Top 10 languages spoken at home in America:

According to the ACS in 2017, the most common languages spoken at home by people aged five years of age or older are as follows:

English only – 239 million
Spanish – 41 million
Chinese (including Mandarin and Cantonese) – 3.5 million
Tagalog (including Filipino) – 1.7 million
Vietnamese – 1.5 million
Arabic – 1.2 million
French – 1.2 million
Korean – 1.1 million
Russian – 0.94 million
German – 0.92 million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langua..._United_States

[C.]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Top 10 languages spoken at home in America:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langua..._United_States

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by posting national-level statistics. If you post a list specific to metro New Orleans, that would've been helpful to conversation. I suspect Vietnamese is either second or third most spoken language at home for New Orleans. French is way down the list.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by C.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by posting national-level statistics. If you post a list specific to metro New Orleans, that would've been helpful to conversation. I suspect Vietnamese is either second or third most spoken language at home for New Orleans. French is way down the list.

Scroll all the way back to post #5 and you’ll see the drop in Louisiana French.

The US stats are there to show that French is not a common language in America.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Top 10 languages spoken at home in America:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langua..._United_States

What is surprising to me is relatively low numbers for basically all languages except Spanish.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What is surprising to me is relatively low numbers for basically all languages except Spanish.

Yeah, in a country of 330 million, the only non-Spanish language to hit over 1% of the population would be all varieties of Chinese put together at 3.5 million.

Essentially, if you are a speaker of anything other than English or Spanish at home (and maybe one of the Chinese languages, depending on how they mutually understand one another), less than 1 in 100 Americans share your situation. For even many of the world's languages Russian, French, Arabic, German etc., given that the number of speakers is around 1 million stateside, it's like 1 in 200 to 300 people who share your linguistic upbringing in the US. Which does seem kind of low.

Of course, the languages are obviously clustered together geographically. But the stats make me realize why some (especially non-urban, or non-majorly Hispanic area) Americans are so unused to hearing another language around, and why some people bristle at hearing a non-English conversation in the public sphere and perceive it as "not American" (not saying it's justified).

I guess it's just my bias, being very urban in upbringing and having spent nearly all my life in cities (and this is only in the US and Canada I'm talking about; I've not really lived anywhere like Europe where multilingualism is common) where overhearing conversations by strangers in a motley mix of tongues on the bus, on the phone, or in the mall is part and parcel of daily life.

Despite not really being natively fluent in any language other than English, I've never found it strange or "un-American" or "un-Canadian" to be surrounded by a multitude of languages around me, be it by co-workers, classmates, or people at the doctor's office.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Yeah, in a country of 330 million, the only non-Spanish language to hit over 1% of the population would be all varieties of Chinese put together at 3.5 million.

Essentially, if you are a speaker of anything other than English or Spanish at home (and maybe one of the Chinese languages, depending on how they mutually understand one another), less than 1 in 100 Americans share your situation. For even many of the world's languages Russian, French, Arabic, German etc., given that the number of speakers is around 1 million stateside, it's like 1 in 200 to 300 people who share your linguistic upbringing in the US. Which does seem kind of low.

Of course, the languages are obviously clustered together geographically. But the stats make me realize why some (especially non-urban, or non-majorly Hispanic area) Americans are so unused to hearing another language around, and why some people bristle at hearing a non-English conversation in the public sphere and perceive it as "not American" (not saying it's justified).

I guess it's just my bias, being very urban in upbringing and having spent nearly all my life in cities (and this is only in the US and Canada I'm talking about; I've not really lived anywhere like Europe where multilingualism is common) where overhearing conversations by strangers in a motley mix of tongues on the bus, on the phone, or in the mall is part and parcel of daily life.

Despite not really being natively fluent in any language other than English, I've never found it strange or "un-American" or "un-Canadian" to be surrounded by a multitude of languages around me, be it by co-workers, classmates, or people at the doctor's office.

If you want to get ahead in this world and especially in America, you have to speak English, fluently.

Also, notice that 239 million speak English only. Of those 41 million Spanish speakers, it's within reason to say that 75%-85% are fluent in English as well.