Trans Canada Highway Twinning: Segments U/C - Page 80

LeftCoaster · #**1581** Posted **Jul 15, 2019, 10:39 PM**

I've never driven it, but isn't the Malahat widely considered a complete mess?

craner · #**1582** Posted **Jul 15, 2019, 11:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craner

I hope if they end up doing this (closing the TCH) they upgrade the entire section that is by-passed by 95/93 ... but I'm not holding my breath.

Looking at the map it's largely just the portion through YOHO NP that would need to be added to the Kicking Horse Phase IV work to get everything upgraded while the TCH is closed.
There are plans in the works for Yoho but no funding of course:
http://https://www.pc.gc.ca/en/pn-np/bc/yoho/gestion-mgmt/ie-ei/rtc-tch

Dengler Avenue · #**1583** Posted **Jul 15, 2019, 11:36 PM**

AADT 5800? Lol I thought it’d be higher. (Not saying it shouldn’t be twinned.)

craneSpotter · #**1584** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 4:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I've never driven it, but isn't the Malahat widely considered a complete mess?

Yes, the Malahat is mostly congested and a mess much of the time. The TCH from Mile 0 to Nanaimo is very busy - way way busier with tourists and residents than the TCH east of Salmon Arm to the Alberta border. It should be the BC governments second main focus right now ... the first area obviously should be the TCH from Surrey through the Fraser Valley to Chilliwack.

I recently drove the TCH from Kamloops to Banff and it wasn't that busy/bad at all, at least compared to the TCH on the BC coast/South Island. The TCH from salmon arm to Banff is almost barren in comparison - Does it need upgrading , maybe , is it an immediate priority - NO.

ssiguy · #**1585** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 2:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

militant environmentalism duh

No it's not but rather a complete lack of understanding about how critical infrastructure is to a growing economy. Vancouver needs 20 overpasses to bring the highway system up to minimum standards that are a given in the rest of the country. There is a VERY wide median on HWY #1 all the way to Chilliwack but they just couldn't be bothered. The SFPR is a brand new highway that should have been freeway standard but instead was built to the lowest common denominator to the point that some parts of the road aren't even properly ramped so you get transports flipping over.

Glacier · #**1586** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 2:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

Almost seems like it would be easier to just put a tunnel through on a different route. But we don't do road tunnels here.

That was their original plan for phase 4. The westbound lanes were to be a tunnel, but they have now opted to blast A LOT of rock instead. Highway 20 down the "Bella Coola Hill" had to be widened 2 m over a 40m section. It took them a year to blast all the rock to do this (1 m over 100 m up, which creates a rock slide, remove, repeat). They were way over budget. The Kicking horse Canyon has a similar problem, only they are dealing with a four lane highway because the anally retentive government refuses to terrace the lanes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I've never driven it, but isn't the Malahat widely considered a complete mess?

They were going to build the highway properly with overpasses and separated lanes, but cheaped out. The last time I drove that highway I burned through a lot of brakes having to stop for 11 lights in a row, many at the bottom of steep hills. 110km/h to zero in seconds kind of thing.

Dengler Avenue · #**1587** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 3:29 PM**

By terracing the lanes do you mean blasting rocks then using them to fill the gaps by the curves to pave way for the second set of lanes?

swimmer_spe · #**1588** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 5:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

No it's not but rather a complete lack of understanding about how critical infrastructure is to a growing economy. Vancouver needs 20 overpasses to bring the highway system up to minimum standards that are a given in the rest of the country. There is a VERY wide median on HWY #1 all the way to Chilliwack but they just couldn't be bothered. The SFPR is a brand new highway that should have been freeway standard but instead was built to the lowest common denominator to the point that some parts of the road aren't even properly ramped so you get transports flipping over.

"... all the way to Chlliwack" No. Not even close. From the Ferry Terminal through much of GVA it has a very narrow ROW.

Corndogger · #**1589** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 9:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

By terracing the lanes do you mean blasting rocks then using them to fill the gaps by the curves to pave way for the second set of lanes?

I think he means one set of lanes will be higher up than the others. This section of I-70 in Colorado is probably what he's talking about. Sarcee Trail on the west side of Calgary is another good example if I'm understanding the use of "terraced" correctly.

• Video Link(skip to about the 2:10 mark of the video)

Dengler Avenue · #**1590** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 9:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I think he means one set of lanes will be higher up than the others. This section of I-70 in Colorado is probably what he's talking about. Sarcee Trail on the west side of Calgary is another good example if I'm understanding the use of "terraced" correctly.

• Video Link(skip to about the 2:10 mark of the video)

I mean, sure why not? Highway 97 by Fraser River is like that.

swimmer_spe · #**1591** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 9:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I think he means one set of lanes will be higher up than the others. This section of I-70 in Colorado is probably what he's talking about. Sarcee Trail on the west side of Calgary is another good example if I'm understanding the use of "terraced" correctly.

• Video Link(skip to about the 2:10 mark of the video)

It seems throughout Canada, we are afraid of having different elevations for our divided highway lanes.

I am waiting till the governments realize in places like Vancouver, Ottawa and Montreal, and even Halifax, stacking the highway so that one way is above the other way would be cheaper than razing neighbourhoods.

Dengler Avenue · #**1592** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 9:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It seems throughout Canada, we are afraid of having different elevations for our divided highway lanes.

I am waiting till the governments realize in places like Vancouver, Ottawa and Montreal, and even Halifax, stacking the highway so that one way is above the other way would be cheaper than razing neighbourhoods.

Does that mean we can have a new freeway above Algonquin Avenue to facilitate ascending and descending Thibault Hill in North Bay?

K I’ll stop bugging you over that~

I don’t wanna tire you out, based on our last few interactions.

For others that have absolutely no idea what I was talking about, here’s a fantasy proposal: https://m.imgur.com/WQpzcGQ.

For BC, 97 by Fraser River have the two directions on different altitude though. It’s the same with ON-401 through the western part of Northumberland County.

Corndogger · #**1593** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 10:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It seems throughout Canada, we are afraid of having different elevations for our divided highway lanes.

I am waiting till the governments realize in places like Vancouver, Ottawa and Montreal, and even Halifax, stacking the highway so that one way is above the other way would be cheaper than razing neighbourhoods.

The urban crowd despises elevated highways. Done badly they do suck but that doesn't mean we should never consider them. If elevated transit lines are okay then why not highways? I'm sure I'll get jumped on for saying that but people need to keep in mind design standards, sound attenuation, etc. are a lot better now than back in the 1950s and 1960s. I'd rather have elevated than a million sets of lights.

swimmer_spe · #**1594** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 10:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Does that mean we can have a new freeway above Algonquin Avenue to facilitate ascending and descending Thibault Hill in North Bay?

K I’ll stop bugging you over that~

I don’t wanna tire you out, based on our last few interactions.

For others that have absolutely no idea what I was talking about, here’s a fantasy proposal: https://m.imgur.com/WQpzcGQ.

For BC, 97 by Fraser River have the two directions on different altitude though. It’s the same with ON-401 through the western part of Northumberland County.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger

The urban crowd despises elevated highways. Done badly they do suck but that doesn't mean we should never consider them. If elevated transit lines are okay then why not highways? I'm sure I'll get jumped on for saying that but people need to keep in mind design standards, sound attenuation, etc. are a lot better now than back in the 1950s and 1960s. I'd rather have elevated than a million sets of lights.

One highway comes to mind - Gardiner. That highway is the bane of Toronto. It is a blessing and a curse.

Dengler Avenue · #**1595** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 10:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

One highway comes to mind - Gardiner. That highway is the bane of Toronto. It is a blessing and a curse.

Gardiner should be buried like Route 136 (A720) in Montréal. It’ll make the lakeshore look so much more appealing.

See? I’d like to suggest something like that for Highway 11 north but there’s that unfriendly hill there...

swimmer_spe · #**1596** Posted **Jul 16, 2019, 11:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Gardiner should be buried like Route 136 (A720) in Montréal. It’ll make the lakeshore look so much more appealing.

See? I’d like to suggest something like that for Highway 11 north but there’s that unfriendly hill there...

Actually, if you buried it deep enough, you could make the grade reasonable.

As far as the Gardiner, why? It is one of the coolest highways I know.

flipper316 · #**1597** Posted **Jul 18, 2019, 7:06 AM**

Yet another fatality on our lovely 2 laned national highway.https://www.castanet.net/edition/new...-3-.htm#261476

Denscity · #**1598** Posted **Jul 18, 2019, 10:43 AM**

Hwy 1 west of Hope near the Fraser River is two different elevations.

wave46 · #**1599** Posted **Jul 18, 2019, 2:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It seems throughout Canada, we are afraid of having different elevations for our divided highway lanes.

I am waiting till the governments realize in places like Vancouver, Ottawa and Montreal, and even Halifax, stacking the highway so that one way is above the other way would be cheaper than razing neighbourhoods.

The 417 through Ottawa was located on a former rail line, so there was not much razing of neighbourhoods.

Aside from Montreal (the Decarie comes to mind), Canada was spared the disastrous idea of bulldozing neighbourhoods to put in freeways. Either there was a pre-existing right-of-way (Ottawa), or industrial land (Toronto) to construct highways.

wave46 · #**1600** Posted **Jul 18, 2019, 2:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Gardiner should be buried like Route 136 (A720) in Montréal. It’ll make the lakeshore look so much more appealing.

It would, but it would probably cost as much as the Big Dig in Boston.