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  #8801  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2012, 7:28 AM
Wenders Wenders is offline
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yep, latrine

I got lost in Tijuana years ago and ended up in really shady bar off-off Revolution (or Revolucion?) The bar did have a latrine like that and I saw men using it while drinking. Handy, sure, but the strong odor of urine was quite overwhelming. I didn't ask for the bar menu.
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  #8802  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2012, 10:07 AM
Los Angeles Past Los Angeles Past is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BifRayRock View Post
With respect to whether the signage is actually an ad for MGM's Grand Hotel, that was my first thought too, but after squinting a while, I did not see it as a movie ad, which is not to say I am correct. Second, I am no expert, but the crowd's costumes look somewhat older, say from the Twenties or earlier. Third, if this was 1932 - or even 1933, it is doubtful that a Bar would be operating as such when Prohibition was still in effect. Doubtful - but not impossible. Fourth, elsewhere it was posited that the image "appears to be a candid photo of Charlie Chaplin shooting a deleted sequence for his film 'SHOULDER ARMS' - showing Charlie as a family man." I have absolutely no idea if this is accurate, but to the extent that it may be, "Shoulder Arms" was photographed in 1918. Again, I have no idea if this is accurate, but the supposition seems to fall in line with the earlier date.

"The Korin" and a Los Angeles address certainly suggests a Los Angeles location, but it is no guarantee. While I do think the location was in Los Angeles, there are many other locations with Grand Hotels, and plenty of onlookers. LosAngeles Past saw the sidewalk as being on a grade and possibly on North Grand. Maybe worth exploring further?

Good sport though. I look forward to someone solving the mystery.

________________________

From the 1918 Movie "Shoulder Arms." Same three youngsters as found in the other photo? Does the marble fascia look familiar?
There did used to be an old marble-fasciaed office building on the NE corner of Grand and Fifth. I don't recall its name, but I paid a business call there in the 1970s, and I never forgot the splendid white marble interior in the lobby.

Anyway, I just emailed Beaudry to request his help. I also believe our past contributor SilentMovieLocations (I think that was his username) might know. He seemed to be particularly knowledgeable about Chaplin film locations.

-Scott
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  #8803  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2012, 3:18 PM
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Moxie Moxie is offline
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At this page - http://silentlocations.wordpress.com...-neighborhood/ - he notes that some deleted scenes from "Shoulder Arms" were filmed around Chaplin's studio. Not sure if the scenes in question were or not, but it's a place to start. (And you can find the author's e-mail address at the bottom of the page, if you want to send him a direct message about it.)
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  #8804  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2012, 4:29 PM
Fab Fifties Fan Fab Fifties Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
I just joined this forum to, first, say thank you to the contributors to the Noirish Los Angeles thread. I'm only about 1/6 of the way through (so many pictures, so little time!) and many questions about old "Lost" Angeles have been answered.

This thread even solved a great mystery that I never could figure out -- just exactly why the old Hall of Records was positioned on an odd angle to the rest of the Civic Center (old street alignment -- I never knew!).

One of my favorite old LA restaurants is of course Philippe's. I knew the restaurant had moved to it's present location on Ord Street due to the freeway expansion in the 40's/50's.
According to Wikipedia, there were a number of locations before the move to Ord:

300 N. Alameda (Philippe's 1908)
156 N. Spring (New Poodle Dog French restaurant 1911)
617 N. Alameda (1913)
246 Aliso St. (1918)
364 Aliso St. (1925)

The article also referred to this area as the "Frenchtown Neighborhood", which was razed for City Hall and freeway expansion.
Since I've only gone about 1/6 of the way through this thread, did any of you uncover pictures containing the early Philippe's locations and/or Frenchtown?
If not, can any pictures be unearthed? I've always wondered about the first Philippe's.

TIA.

Welcome to the thread Lwize!

When I researched Philippe's prior locations for a discussion on the thread last year, I only found a photo of the 364 Aliso location where they were from 1925-1951.

Here is the link to that discussion and my post with the photo:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...7s#post5565195


~Jon Paul
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  #8805  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2012, 5:25 PM
BifRayRock BifRayRock is offline
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Originally Posted by Los Angeles Past View Post
There did used to be an old marble-fasciaed office building on the NE corner of Grand and Fifth. I don't recall its name, but I paid a business call there in the 1970s, and I never forgot the splendid white marble interior in the lobby.

Anyway, I just emailed Beaudry to request his help. I also believe our past contributor SilentMovieLocations (I think that was his username) might know. He seemed to be particularly knowledgeable about Chaplin film locations.-Scott


"Shoulder Arms" photos strongly tie the subject photo to around 1918. But there is even another reason for believing that date to be quasi-accurate: "The Korin."

"The Korin" appears to have been a short-lived photographic supply house which probably served as photo lab for the subject photo. It is not clear that someone affiliated with "The Korin" actually took the photograph. The only reference I have found is in the 1923 Directory for a location at 522 S. Hill. http://rescarta.lapl.org:8080/ResCar...arch_doc=korin "The Korin" does not seem to be listed in earlier or later directories, and that includes 1915 and 1932 - and a 6th Street address.

Other musings.
Were the onlookers in two of the photos, bystanders or extras?
When did Los Angeles begin requiring permits for commercial motion picture photography, or perhaps the better inquiry is when did the City enforce any permit requirements? Permits, and records kept thereof, could answer many questions.

Lastly, I return to the original photograph and wonder about the street's composition and width. The composition seems different from so many other streets in the pictures posted here. (Poured concrete slab construction or paving stones?) Whatever their composition, many Downtown streets were made to last. This includes areas of what is now known as Little Tokyo. (See below)

It could be just the perspective of the lens and camera placement, but the proximity of the surrounding buildings smacks of being on a smaller side street or on an outdoor set. I rather doubt the latter, but I am hardly immune from surprises.

Plenty of side streets to consider as well as those known to have used paving stones.

____________________

Food for thought. Griffith Construction was one of many contractors responsible for paving Los Angeles' streets. It's been around for a century.http://www.griffithcompany.net/news/news_0602.html

google

Granite-block paving.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7294653...3639/lightbox/


Street paving, Beachwood and Westshire, 1923 (Hollywoodland)
lapl

Granite curb saved for Heritage Square 1980
Quote:
"Approximately 50,000 vintage bricks, made by the Los Angeles Paving Brick Company, along with vintage curbing and hand-hewn granite drains, were salvaged from a construction site on Weller St., north of 2nd St. in Little Tokyo. Workmen for the Damon Construction Company skimmed pavement off the bricks first, then lifted and shook the bricks out and freed them of excess mortar. These bricks were then delivered to Heritage Square to be recreated into historic-cultural paving. Heritage Square Museum is located on the east side of the Pasadena Freeway north of downtown Los Angeles, in Highland Park."http://photos.lapl.org/



Last edited by BifRayRock; Aug 6, 2012 at 11:28 PM.
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  #8806  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2012, 8:09 PM
rmos rmos is offline
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LAPL
Well, maybe the plants were once real... the windowbox veg is looking young and scraggly here....

Just going through some of the older posts on this thread . . . don't know if this was mentioned, but that tall gentleman appears to be the actor Lock Martin, who played Gort in the film "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and also appeared with bandleader Spike Jones.
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  #8807  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2012, 9:19 PM
jg6544 jg6544 is offline
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According to Wikipedia, Arden was an ice cream company operating out of Oregon. I didn't recognize the name as one I was familiar with from growing up in Texas.
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  #8808  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2012, 9:41 PM
Lwize Lwize is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab Fifties Fan View Post
Welcome to the thread Lwize!

When I researched Philippe's prior locations for a discussion on the thread last year, I only found a photo of the 364 Aliso location where they were from 1925-1951.

Here is the link to that discussion and my post with the photo:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...7s#post5565195


~Jon Paul
Thanks! I had not seen that picture before. Looks like they kept their old sign as well. The 364 Aliso location seems to be across from where the LA Cathedral is now, since Aliso is still a freeway side road.

The auto repair & machine shop at the current location is new to me - I thought the building was a boarding house in a prior life.
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  #8809  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2012, 6:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
For the life of me, I have never heard of a saloon where you could whip it out and take a p*ss whilst standing at the bar.

Is this really a latrine or did the seller mislabel the photograph?

__
I recall reading something by Jack London in university where he described such a fixture...
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  #8810  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2012, 4:13 PM
malumot malumot is offline
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The PECANS were from Texas......not the dairy. Mostly a marketing angle, to infer the source connotes quality ------

e.g. Florida oranges, Wisconsin cheese, Washington state apples, Idaho potatoes, French hookers.......

------------------------------------------------------

Arden Group’s history reaches back to 1904, where Arden Farms’ dairy was founded in El Monte, California. Founder Edward Robbins raised dairy cows and started state-of-the-art facilities for bottling milk. The Arden Farms operation was merged in 1930 with California Dairies, Inc., which had been created by Western Dairy Products Co. of Seattle to operate their California properties. Western Dairy Products Co. ran ice cream outlets in the Pacific Northwest.

On the retail side, Daley’s Markets’ predecessor Rock Bottom Store was started in Los Angeles in 1912, and was 160 stores strong when founder Joe Daley sold the chain to Arden Farms in 1929. Arden changed the name to Continental Markets and then to Van’s Markets, and began to eliminate smaller, less profitable locations. In 1948, 43 Van’s Markets joined forces with eight stores owned by the Mayfair Companies, and the name of the chain became Mayfair Markets.

The merged company, Arden-Mayfair Inc., acquired the Gelson’s stores in 1966 and continues as the parent company of Gelson’s Markets today as Arden Group, Inc. (NASDAQ: ARDNA). Over the years, Arden-Mayfair Inc. and Arden Group, Inc. have run businesses as diverse as dairies, grocery stores, confections, printers, facsimile machine sales and swimming pool supplies.



http://www.gelsons.com/about/company...ndex.asp#arden


Faxes? Swimming pool supplies?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jg6544 View Post
According to Wikipedia, Arden was an ice cream company operating out of Oregon. I didn't recognize the name as one I was familiar with from growing up in Texas.
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  #8811  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2012, 4:47 PM
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MichaelRyerson MichaelRyerson is offline
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It was always about the land, about the riches that could be unlocked if it were chosen carefully enough,
subdivided into parcels which called out to the right demographic, if access could be insured with rail or
improved roads or both, if water and electricity could find their way in, if enough hoopla could be conjured
so that they would come and look and buy, while the coming and looking and buying was good, before the
carrying costs caught up with the cash reserves. Yeah, it was always about the land. Of course, the key
was buying at an agricultural rate and selling at a residential rate.

The trick was turning a bean field into a view lot.

By 1910 Burton Green, Max Whittier and their various partners controlled 4,439 acres of bean fields, they
had the water and they had the electricity and now they needed the people. But they had to be the right
kind of people, the kind who would pay premium prices, build expensive houses and bring other people of
the right kind. They needed a trump card. They needed hoopla. Burton found it over on Hollywood Boulevard.
Knowing of the bitter feud between Almira Hershey, the owner of the Hotel Hollywood and her
long-time manager, Margaret J. Anderson, Green and the boys from Rodeo Land & Water decided to make the
formidable Ms. Anderson an offer she couldn’t refuse. They grubstaked her to a spanking new hotel in their
neck of the woods and the capital to cover operating expenses for the foreseeable future. It was an easy decision.
She came, bringing her son, Stanley, an experienced hotelier in his own right and as an added bonus they brought
with them a hotel-full of guests, cleaning out, as it were, the entire guest list of the Hotel Hollywood as they locked
the door behind them, the right kind of people one-and-all. It’s worked for a century. So far, so good.



1024px-Beverly_Hills_Hotel,_1911_drawing

Los Angeles Times, May 14, 1911



Beverly_Hills_Hotel_1912

1912 looking north across an unpaved Sunset Blvd, the Beverly Hills Hotel under construction nearing completion.
image from paulrwilliamsproject.org



BHH, 1912

Dirt roads and grace abound. Open for business just barely. image from paradiseleased.wordpress.com



hbz-beverly-hills-hotel-Hotel-Panoramic-1912-0512-lgn

looking southwest across Lexington and Crescent Drives, Sunset Boulevard beyond the hotel.
image from "The Beverly Hills Hotel and Bungalows - The First 100 Years" by Robert S. Anderson, Official Historian for The Beverly Hills Hotel



BHH Polo Ponies?

Will Rogers and friends? No, likely too early for that. Besides some of the men appear to be wearing skimmers.
Joe Lefors? (But) Lefors never leaves Wyoming, never. You know that. myloveofoldhollywood.blogspot.com



Beverly Hills Hotel looking northwest, circa 1921

image from the empressofdress.blogspot.com



BeverlyHills-Hotel looking south 1921

In the early years the hotel set aside an acre for the guests to plant flowers and vegetables.
image from plushhomerealty.com



BeverlyHillsHotel_1935_DorothyJordan

image from the empressofdress.blogspot.com



Beverly Hills Hotel, entrance, 1940's

Beverly Hills Hotel, Exterior, 1940's: Photographer Maynard L. Parker, The Huntington Library, San Marino, California



Beverly Hills Hotel pool 1948

image from the empressofdress.blogspot.com



hbz-beverly-hills-hotel-Rita-Hayworth-0512-de

Rita Hayworth in a comfy outfit down by the pool, circa 1934. by Robert S. Anderson



Polo Lounge

image by Julius Shulman for the BHH



hbz-beverly-hills-hotel-Marlene-0512-lgn

Marlene Dietrich in The Polo Lounge, where she successfully challenged the dress code that
stated women could not wear pants in the restaurant. I love this picture. by Robert S. Anderson



Beverly-Hills-Hotel-room detail

image by Julius Shulman for the BHH



Beverly-Hills-Hotel-room detail II

image by Julius Shulman for the BHH


BHH paulrwilliams

In the late 1940’s architect Paul Revere Williams was retained to spruce up the existing hotel
and design and oversee the construction of a major add-on.
He brought a bucket of pink paint and some banana leaf wallpaper.
image from CthulhuWho1's Blog



Beverly-Hills-Hotel-Addition-circa 1950

image by Julius Shulman for the BHH



BHH-Exterior

Fairy tales can come true.

image from empressofdress.blogspot.com



Beverly Hills Hotel, Lanai Room, 1950

Beverly Hills Hotel, Lanai Room, 1950:
Photographer Maynard L. Parker, The Huntington Library, San Marino, California



Historical-BHH-Entrance

image from Hawkins International Public Relations



Beverly Hills Hotel lobby

image from hotelchatter.com



hinson martinique banana leaf wallpaper beverly hills palm beach chic room

theastate.com



Beverly-Hills-Hotel cabana boy

Yes, I know, a dirty job but someone has to do it.
image from the empressofdress.blogspot.com



2012-01-09-WomanbythePool_AnthonyFriedkin_BeverlyHillsHotel1975

The pool area at the Beverly Hills Hotel. Truly a land of opportunity.



hbz-beverly-hills-hotel-Faye-Dunaway-oscar-0512-lgn

Faye Dunaway and friend by the pool on the morning of March 29, 1977. by Robert S. Anderson



hbz-beverly-hills-hotel-Marilyn-0512-lgn

Marilyn stayed in the Bungalows while filming "Let's Make Love." circa 1959
by Robert S. Anderson



Beverly Hills Hotel bungalow exterior walkway

Howard Hughes, bungalow number 5 for nearly thirty years,
maintained a standing order with the hotel kitchen to hide a
roast beef sandwich in the tree near his walkway every evening at about 10 pm,
presumably so that he could avoid having to see or talk with anyone.
image from anapettusdairies.com



Beverly Hills Hotel bungalow pool

And yes, some of the bungalows include private pools.

image from the empressofdress.blogspot.com



Beverly Hills Hotel bungalow interior detail

image from anapettusdairies.com



Beverly Hills Hotel bungalow interior detail II

image from anapettusdairies.com



Beverly Hills Hotel bungalow interior detail III

image from anapettusdairies.com



BeverlyHillsHotel interior Marilyn's bungalow, circa 1959

Marilyn and husband Arthur Miller, right, enjoy dessert and
after-dinner drinks with Yves Montand, back to camera, and his wife Simone Signoret.

image from beneathmagentaskies.com



BeverlyHillsHotel interior Marilyn's bungalow II, circa 1959

image from kiwicollection.com



BHH nighttime panorama

Beverly Hills Hotel nighttime panorama. image from dailymail.co.uk

Last edited by MichaelRyerson; Jan 4, 2013 at 4:37 PM.
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  #8812  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2012, 9:41 PM
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Those Who Squirm! Those Who Squirm! is offline
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Lucy's house

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire View Post
Mike-- While that is the house currently standing at 1000 N. Roxbury Drive (ne corner of Lexington Road) in Beverly Hills, it isn't Lucy's. Whoever built the incredibly ordinary McMansion in your shot not only saw fit to tear down Lucy's house, but a house by the great architect Paul Revere Williams:

(Picture of Lucille Ball's house in Beverly Hills at 1000 N. Roxbury)
You'd be surprised how McMansion-like appendages or other expansions can be built onto an existing house without actually demolishing the latter. In a way it's like when old Edwardian or Victorian era houses get stuccoed over; you can hardly recognize them after that.

According to the county tax assessor's public database, no reportable construction or other improvements have occurred onsite since 1981. That was years before her death and I presume she was still living there at the time.

(N.B. I can't link to the specific entry for the property. Just type in 1000 Roxbury in the address field, no directional designation or suffix.)
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  #8813  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2012, 11:55 PM
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Beaudry Beaudry is offline
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Grand Hotel, intriguing indeed! A quick check of the 1918 telephone book shows Grand Hotel at 629 S Los Angeles; by the 1929 telephone book, the Grand Hotel is gone. So if we use 629 S LA as our address, Charlie would be walking alongside the PE Bldg, which does have those sort of openings there. But then wouldn't across the street have more terminal business going on? And why does the Grand Hotel stick out like that?

Now, we could be looking from the other side of 6th with the intersection behind the assembled mass, in which case those dark-colored capitals on the pilasters quite resemble those on the Kerckhoff-Cuzner Mills Co. Annex...if you squint. Food for thought anyway. I might have more later but I gotta run...
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  #8814  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2012, 1:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
Yesterday, I came across these three photos for sale on ebay.
The first one is especially great.
ethereal, as always you have the best. I particularly love the "Cafe Bob's"!

(Yeah, I do realize that the sign is actually saying that it's a cafe, and that it's Bob's, but "Cafe Bob's" would be delightfully self-aggrandizing--and, uh, self-deprecating at the same time. Imagine if there'd been a Dragnet episode where Friday and Romero had to interview a waiter at Cafe Bob's.

(For the pictures, see the original post.)
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  #8815  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2012, 2:27 AM
BifRayRock BifRayRock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaudry View Post
Grand Hotel, intriguing indeed! A quick check of the 1918 telephone book shows Grand Hotel at 629 S Los Angeles; by the 1929 telephone book, the Grand Hotel is gone. So if we use 629 S LA as our address, Charlie would be walking alongside the PE Bldg, which does have those sort of openings there. But then wouldn't across the street have more terminal business going on? And why does the Grand Hotel stick out like that?

Now, we could be looking from the other side of 6th with the intersection behind the assembled mass, in which case those dark-colored capitals on the pilasters quite resemble those on the Kerckhoff-Cuzner Mills Co. Annex...if you squint. Food for thought anyway. I might have more later but I gotta run...

Are the phone books of which you speak available on line? While not every residence and business had a telephone in 1918, it is possible the "[ _ _ _ _ ] Bar" was so equipped. Curiously, the "Grand Hotel" did not make the cut in the 1923 City Directory. Maybe, to maintain its exclusivity, it paid not to be listed. http://rescarta.lapl.org:8080/ResCar...oc=grand+hotel

It might be logical to assume that the "Grand Hotel" advertisement adorns that building; however, could it be that the sign was on another building?

Tally ho!

Main Street looking south from Sixth Street, ca.1918 (No Scene Twice Seen)


Sixth Street looking west from the Kerckhoff building near Main Street, ca. 1900


Kerckhoff Bldg., ca 1910-1920(?)
All from USC Digital


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  #8816  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2012, 4:33 AM
BifRayRock BifRayRock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
"The interior of an all-male saloon in Los Angeles with a latrine." ( pan right----> ) The lighting fixtures are amazing!
For the life of me, I have never heard of a saloon where you could whip it out and take a p*ss whilst standing at the bar.

Is this really a latrine or did the seller mislabel the photograph?
One polite euphemism for the subject of your inquiry is a "trough spittoon." The operative word being "trough."

As novel as this sounds, at one time, it wasn't. Can't say I have any specific knowledge of the Los Angeles area, but there were plenty of "troughs" in various stag saloons throughout the country. Needless to say, as mores changed and public health became more of a significant governmental concern, most fell out of favor.

http://forgottenbuffalo.com/forgotte...ertroughs.html

Last edited by BifRayRock; Aug 8, 2012 at 4:50 AM.
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  #8817  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2012, 11:43 PM
Los Angeles Past Los Angeles Past is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Los Angeles Past View Post
There did used to be an old marble-fasciaed office building on the NE corner of Grand and Fifth. I don't recall its name, but I paid a business call there in the 1970s, and I never forgot the splendid white marble interior in the lobby.

Anyway, I just emailed Beaudry to request his help. I also believe our past contributor SilentMovieLocations (I think that was his username) might know. He seemed to be particularly knowledgeable about Chaplin film locations.

-Scott
Well, I found some photos of the old office building at Fifth and Grand, and the Grand side of the building doesn't look anything like the one in the Chaplin photo (nor does the rest of that section of Grand). So, I guess I withdraw my guess. Still haven't heard back from Beaudry, though. Am anxious to see what he thinks!

-S

EDIT: Ah, I see his reply above now. Nevermind!
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  #8818  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2012, 3:16 AM
rick m rick m is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wenders View Post
I got lost in Tijuana years ago and ended up in really shady bar off-off Revolution (or Revolucion?) The bar did have a latrine like that and I saw men using it while drinking. Handy, sure, but the strong odor of urine was quite overwhelming. I didn't ask for the bar menu.
So all the dudes could make a big splash at the Beer Busts ----Victoria Station located as one approaches Palmdale has a great framed image above its standard-issue urinals of a different barfront with the similar troughs- Washing the whole place out afterhours musta been a chore---
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  #8819  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2012, 7:48 PM
Oviatt Building Fan Oviatt Building Fan is offline
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Folks, you might enjoy reading this recent Los Angeles Times interview with me about the historic James Oviatt Building in downtown L.A. The second link has a photo gallery as well.


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,2357113.story

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...8.photogallery
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  #8820  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2012, 11:43 PM
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Moxie Moxie is offline
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Great article and photos! Thanks for sharing, and thanks for all you're doing to keep up interest in Oviatt and his building. For all the buildings that have been lost, it's terrific knowing that some people do what they can to preserve history of the architecture and the people associated with it.
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