Austin | River Park - 4700 Riverside (Formerly Project Catalyst) | Proposed

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by jowens

Surely they would include "light rail" from the airport up Riverside into downtown in the proposal. The one major item Austin is totally lacking on Amazon's "checklist" for the potential location, is mass transit.

Also, it will take the better part of a decade for Amazon to hire 50k workers. So there may be some time to get something implemented.

[GoldenBoot]

This project will not come to fruition (as currently proposed) without incentives. And with the council trying to back out of the Domain incentive deal...good luck at securing a deal for Catalyst.

Man, 10-1 definitely did not turn out like I had hoped. What a bunch of lunatics.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

This project will not come to fruition (as currently proposed) without incentives. And with the council trying to back out of the Domain incentive deal...good luck at securing a deal for Catalyst.

Man, 10-1 definitely did not turn out like I had hoped. What a bunch of lunatics.

Any future incentives will no doubt be guaranteed by contract, not "optional", which is where the Domain gets into trouble.

[The ATX]

TOWERS has a good article about this area:

http://austin.towers.net/more-than-1...s-south-shore/

[The ATX]

An update from TOWERS:

https://austin.towers.net/project-ca...ast-riverside/

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by The ATX

An update from TOWERS:

https://austin.towers.net/project-ca...ast-riverside/

This could be such a great development. It expands the core of the city without doing much damage to surrounding neighborhoods. The development would be towards the airport and less developed areas where more affordable housing could be built without having a huge impact on gridlocked highways to the north of downtown. It would increase the probability that a light rail line gets built that would serve the airport. Most important, this development would easily integrate into the existing street grid making for a true urban environment rather that the faux urban mess that is rapidly congealing in the Domain area.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by austlar1

Most important, this development would easily integrate into the existing street grid making for a true urban environment rather that the faux urban mess that is rapidly congealing in the Domain area.

You say this based on what?

We've seen no indication (yet) that a new internal street grid will be developed/conveyed to the city.

It's a large unified project developed by a single developer. All apartments (no condos) so it seems likely the developer will keep control of the whole thing. Most likely it will look/feel exactly like the Domain (not that it's bad).

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by Novacek

You say this based on what?

We've seen no indication (yet) that a new internal street grid will be developed/conveyed to the city.

It's a large unified project developed by a single developer. All apartments (no condos) so it seems likely the developer will keep control of the whole thing. Most likely it will look/feel exactly like the Domain (not that it's bad).

Wanna bet? Nothing could possibly feel as sterile and artificial as the Domain. I am pretty sure the city will make certain this development, if it happens, will be integrated into the existing network of roads in the area.

[chundercracker]

Originally Posted by austlar1

Wanna bet? Nothing could possibly feel as sterile and artificial as the Domain. I am pretty sure the city will make certain this development, if it happens, will be integrated into the existing network of roads in the area.

I dunno, the Mueller area's pushing pretty hard for the "Truman Show" award too...

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by chundercracker

I dunno, the Mueller area's pushing pretty hard for the "Truman Show" award too...

Ha! Ha! You are right about that. Mueller leaves me feeling pretty cold, but the Domain just creeps me out. I hate going there for any reason. I am probably the most elderly customer you can find at H and M. They have great draw string pants that fit my sagging old body. Otherwise, I'd never go near the Domain.

This Catylist site has great bones with frontage on a revitalizing Riverside Drive and S. Pleasant Valley. There is almost direct access to the nearby lake, park, and trails. It is already bisected by at least three existing streets. I suspect the master plan will attempt to relate to all of these elements in a truly urban manner. Also, if it happens, Catylist will probably be built out by a variety of different developers over a decade or two. Current trends in urban design pretty much dictate walkability and connectivity. Transit options along Riverside are almost certain to improve dramatically over time. I don't think Catylist is likely to turn its back on Riverside Drive or S. Pleasant Valley. The latter is a direct connect into old East Austin. There will be quick access to bike trails as well, which might be a sexy sell to younger commuters. The new not-so-free "Airport Freeway" will make this area much more accessible to north central Austin. I think this concept is a real winner and a game changer for the larger neighborhood extending up to Oltorf. I really want this one to happen.

I'm re posting the link to the Austin Towers recent article on this proposal in case you missed it above.

https://austin.towers.net/project-ca...ast-riverside/

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by austlar1

Ha! Ha! You are right about that. Mueller leaves me feeling pretty cold, but the Domain just creeps me out. I hate going there for any reason. I am probably the most elderly customer you can find at H and M. They have great draw string pants that fit my sagging old body. Otherwise, I'd never go near the Domain.

This Catylist site has great bones with frontage on a revitalizing Riverside Drive and almost direct access to the nearby lake, park, and trails. It is already bisected by at least three existing streets. I suspect the master plan will attempt to relate to all of these elements in a truly urban manner. Also, if it happens, Catylist will probably be built out by a variety of different developers over a decade or two. Current trends in urban design pretty much dictate walkability and connectivity. Transit options along Riverside are almost certain to improve dramatically over time. I don't think Catylist is likely to turn its back on Riverside Drive. There will be quick access to bike trails as well which might be a sexy sell to younger commuters. I think this concept is a real winner and a game changer for the larger neighborhood extending up to Oltorf. I really want this one to happen.

I'm re posting the link to the Austin Towers recent article on this proposal in case you missed it above.

https://austin.towers.net/project-ca...ast-riverside/

I agree, Catalyst has the potential of being a real game changer for Austin. Looking forward to hearing more details.

[Jdawgboy]

I also stand by my previous statement in another thread about VMU density. Please point out a corridor that has more VMU development than South Lamar or East Riverside. I'm not talking about West Campus or the Domain I'm talking about a stretch of road with the VMU development.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I also stand by my previous statement in another thread about VMU density. Please point out a corridor that has more VMU development than South Lamar or East Riverside. I'm not talking about West Campus or the Domain I'm talking about a stretch of road with the VMU development.

If the Catylist thing happens, I suspect that Riverside will be VMU on both sides all the way to IH35 within a decade or so. Big plots of lowrise commercial space like the HEB at the corner of Riverside and Pleasant Valley might see development similar to that being described for Catylist. An entire swath of the central city could emerge in urban form in fairly short order. The rundown apartment complexes going up to Oltorf would likely revitalize as well. I guess you could say I have an almost Jdawgian level of enthusiasm for this Catylist project.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by austlar1

If the Catylist thing happens, I suspect that Riverside will be VMU on both sides all the way to IH35 within a decade or so. Big plots of lowrise commercial space like the HEB at the corner of Riverside and Pleasant Valley might see development similar to that being described for Catylist. An entire swath of the central city could emerge in urban form in fairly short order. The rundown apartment complexes going up to Oltorf would likely revitalize as well. I guess you could say I have an almost Jdawgian level of enthusiasm for this Catylist project.

Hey a new word definition! Love it!

By the way have you seen those row townhouses that are going up along Tinnin Ford Road? They remind me of what you see in cities in the Northeast. I'd love to see more like that.

Here's a screenshot from Google Maps:

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by austlar1

I suspect the master plan will attempt to relate to all of these elements in a truly urban manner.

What master plan? This is a simple upzoning, not a PUD. The only regulating plan is the existing east riverside corridor plan.

Which is good and all, but we don't have to guess about it. We know exactly what is required.

(as a side, I'll correct myself and say that the ERC corridor plan does require some new street dedications in these parcels, so yes that should be nice).

Originally Posted by austlar1

Also, if it happens, Catylist will probably be built out by a variety of different developers over a decade or two.

A decade or two? It's not big enough to require that much time.

In actual buildable area (remember a big chunk is undevelopable/isn't being developed), this is only slightly larger than Phase 1 of the Domain (if possibly slightly taller).

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice medium-sized project, but you're blowing it up to be something much larger than it is.

[Sigaven]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

Hey a new word definition! Love it!

By the way have you seen those row townhouses that are going up along Tinnin Ford Road? They remind me of what you see in cities in the Northeast. I'd love to see more like that.

Here's a screenshot from Google Maps:

The brick is nice but the other three sides are awful!! They built some identical ones behind my work on 11th street, and they slapped on this horrible looking fiber cement synthetic looking panels on the sides and back (and also on those divider walls that extend up past the roof). Not even real stucco or even fake stucco. It looks really really terrible.

[clubtokyo]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

Hey a new word definition! Love it!

By the way have you seen those row townhouses that are going up along Tinnin Ford Road? They remind me of what you see in cities in the Northeast. I'd love to see more like that.

Here's a screenshot from Google Maps:

Those look nice! Love the full brick all the way around. Wait are we looking at the same project? I see brick on 3 sides?

[urbancore]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

The brick is nice but the other three sides are awful!! They built some identical ones behind my work on 11th street, and they slapped on this horrible looking fiber cement synthetic looking panels on the sides and back (and also on those divider walls that extend up past the roof). Not even real stucco or even fake stucco. It looks really really terrible.

I'm with you. Hot garbage. I've toured them. The finish out is shit. Not 4 sides brick. Once the neighborhood fills in, it should look better, but it really needs to be in a mega-dense area.

[Sigaven]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Most likely it will look/feel exactly like the Domain (not that it's bad).

The Domain is a terrible example to follow for urban planning. I'm really hoping this project builds actual city streets and incorporates with the rest of the city grid, instead of closing itself off like the Domain with only a few access points and parking garages galore.

The Domain has all the feeling of a place you go to just for the day, a bubble isolated, before you return to Austin. I'm hoping Catalyst is just a continuation of "Austin."

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by Novacek

What master plan? This is a simple upzoning, not a PUD. The only regulating plan is the existing east riverside corridor plan.

Which is good and all, but we don't have to guess about it. We know exactly what is required.

(as a side, I'll correct myself and say that the ERC corridor plan does require some new street dedications in these parcels, so yes that should be nice).



A decade or two? It's not big enough to require that much time.

In actual buildable area (remember a big chunk is undevelopable/isn't being developed), this is only slightly larger than Phase 1 of the Domain (if possibly slightly taller).

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice medium-sized project, but you're blowing it up to be something much larger than it is.

Yes, probably at least a decade. We are talking about:
4,709 apartment units
600 hotel rooms
3,987,300 square feet of office space
436,250 square feet of general retail space
60,000 square feet of medical/dental space

Hard to imagine a single lender or developer taking all that on at one time. There will eventually be a master plan or road map, if this thing progresses. Multiple developers will probably share in the building of this thing.