HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #461  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 10:09 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 29,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
hmm ok, do you have a pic?
no, but i've stood on top of tower hill in warren dunes several times and been able to make out the 10-15 tallest buildings in chicago way out on the horizon on the other side of the lake.
__________________
"Missing middle" housing can be a great middle ground for many middle class families.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #462  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 5:25 PM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,227
Just contributing a recent article on this:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crossro...roads-ed-zotti
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #463  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 5:39 PM
C. C. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
Just contributing a recent article on this:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crossro...roads-ed-zotti
Quote:
A provincial backwater 40 years ago, Toronto has become a major player on the world stage. In rankings of global urban significance, it vies with and sometimes surpasses Chicago.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #464  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 5:41 PM
C. C. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,014
Good points and may be the answer to the question right here on why Canadian skylines rival their American counterparts.

Quote:
But Toronto’s most important source of strength is Canada’s unusual — and shrewd — immigration policy. The thinly populated nation is one of the few in the world that sets a target for immigration rather than a cap. For 2020, it’s 341,000 immigrants.

That doesn’t mean Canada admits everybody who wants in. The country has an immigration points system that gives priority to applicants having work skills, education or other qualifications deemed desirable.

Equally important, Canadian provinces are allowed to fast-track immigration applicants willing to set up residence within their borders. Ontario accepts the largest number of immigrants. Most head for Toronto: Thirty-five percent of immigrants to Canada settle in the city.

Canada — and Toronto — have been particularly welcoming to refugees, including Hungarians fleeing the failed revolution of 1956, Southeast Asians in the 1970s and recently Syrians.

Immigrants have given the Toronto region one of the most diverse ethnic mixes in the world. Nearly half of Toronto’s residents are foreign-born.

The Canadian approach is one Chicago and other Rust Belt cities should study.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #465  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 6:37 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
"The Canadian approach is one Chicago and other Rust Belt cities should study."

Um, what? Localities play zero role in national immigration policy. What are they supposed to "study"? Whether or not adding millions of immigrants to their cities would be beneficial? Any sentient human knows the answer to that question.

In fact the people in charge in the U.S. think we have too much immigration, and want essentially none.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #466  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 6:54 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 10,659
I don't really think the article was saying the US needs more immigrants per-se but rather that the US should create a points system like Canada which ensures they get the best & brightest and to encourage/force those immigrants to cities & states that are suffering from population decline. It's not so much the raw numbers as much as it is where they are going.

Still the article does leave out one very important contributor.............climate. Being close to the US border, Toronto enjoys, outside of BC, amongst the mildest and least snowy winters in the country. This is of course in stark contrast to Chicago which has one of the coldest winters in the US.

Last edited by ssiguy; Jun 16, 2020 at 9:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #467  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 7:09 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I don't really think the article was saying the US needs more immigrants per-se but rather that the US should create a points system like Canada which ensures they get the best & brightest and to encourage/force those immigrants to cities & states that are suffering from population decline. It's not so much the raw numbers as much as it is where they are going.
Canada has 3x as many immigrants as the U.S. per-capita, and has a welcoming administration. And obviously they're disproportionately going to Ontario, where else would they go? The rest of Canada is either French-speaking, or isolated/empty. Immigrants want to be with fellow immigrants.

And I don't think you could force immigrants to live in, say, Gary. Immigrants should go where it makes most sense for their families. There have been efforts at putting immigrants in the "hood" and they leave after a few years anyways. There was a big Hmong population placed in the East Side of Detroit in the 1980's, and they were gone 10 years later.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #468  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 7:20 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
cle/west village/shaolin
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I don't really think the article was saying the US needs more immigrants per-se but rather that the US should create a points system like Canada which ensures they get the best & brightest and to encourage/force those immigrants to cities & states that are suffering from population decline.

ensure the best and brightest? no. that is exactly the opposite of what the usa should do when they become more welcoming of immigration again with the new adminstration.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore..."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #469  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 8:58 PM
Handro Handro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I don't really think the article was saying the US needs more immigrants per-se but rather that the US should create a points system like Canada which ensures they get the best & brightest and to encourage/force those immigrants to cities & states that are suffering from population decline. It's not so much the raw numbers as much as it is where they are going.

Still the article does leave out one very contributor.............climate. Being close to the US border, Toronto enjoys, outside of BC, amongst the mildest and least snowy winters in the country. This is of course in stark contrast to Chicago which has one of the coldest winters in the US.
The US already employs a system that ensures immigrants with more money and education have an easier time gaining legal residence; one of the pillars of our immigration system is employment-based, meaning if you have a job here in the states and the company is willing to petition for your residence here, you can come here and live legally. This can lead to permanent legal residence, during which time you have limited ability to travel or change jobs. If you hold that status for 5 years, you can apply for citizenship. Of course this benefits people with higher paying, stable jobs more than anyone else.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information about Chicago winters vs. Toronto; Toronto is, on average, both snowier and colder than Chicago. The mildest winter in Canada is still winter in Canada...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #470  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 9:48 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 10,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handro View Post

I'm not sure where you're getting your information about Chicago winters vs. Toronto; Toronto is, on average, both snowier and colder than Chicago. The mildest winter in Canada is still winter in Canada...
That's my point. Americans leave the North for the warmer climates of the South & West. Canadians do as well but in Canada, Toronto is the South. Only BC has a less severe climate and it's distance, low wages, and outrageous cost of living inhibit most from even contemplating such a move. Moving to BC is a one-way ticket to poverty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #471  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 10:05 PM
softee's Avatar
softee softee is offline
Aimless Wanderer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Downtown Toronto
Posts: 3,392
Quote:
With all of the news of the past few months, here’s an item that probably escaped the attention of most Chicagoans: On the list of North American cities with the most skyscrapers, Chicago — where the skyscraper supposedly was invented, currently No. 2 behind New York — is on track to be surpassed by Toronto.

Yes, Toronto.
Is the guy who wrote this really that surprised? What other North American city did he think was close to surpassing Chicago in the near future? Seems bizarre that he could be so incredulous.

Also, referring to Toronto 40 years ago as a "provincial backwater" is quite the stretch. It was already Canada's biggest metro area with 3 million people, was established as Canada's biggest financial and media centre and had one of the tallest skylines in North America punctuated by the big bank towers of the financial district and the CN Tower. He makes it sound like it was London, Ontario back then. hah
__________________
Public transit is the lifeblood of every healthy city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #472  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:37 AM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handro View Post
I'm not sure where you're getting your information about Chicago winters vs. Toronto; Toronto is, on average, both snowier and colder than Chicago.
Maybe things have changed in the intervening decades, but having lived in the suburbs of Toronto (literally across the street from what was then called Metro Toronto) and having a sister who later lived in Chicago for five years, Chicago's winters were MUCH worse than Toronto's. When I lived up there, the rule of thumb was to watch Channel 4 from Buffalo, then expect half the amount of snow to hit one day later.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #473  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 3:20 AM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 29,635
^ The centuries-long weather records in both cities show that Toronto is both slightly colder and snowier than Chicago in the winter.

But it's not a big difference; it's generally a wash when speaking in broad terms.

Afterall, we're not exactly comparing Winnipeg to Miami here.



That said, Chicago and Toronto, two eminently fine great lakes cities, have the two largest skylines in NA, after NYC of course, and that will forever be a point of interest to me.

Why?

Why two great lakes cities?

No one has ever come anywhere even remotely close to explaining that.
__________________
"Missing middle" housing can be a great middle ground for many middle class families.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Jun 17, 2020 at 4:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #474  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 4:44 AM
mhays mhays is offline
Never Dell
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 19,748
The US West Coast has a mix of seismic rules (expense), nimbyism, public process, and tight height/FAR limits. It's generally much harder to build tall here, and limited to small areas. Vancouver has tight height limits, even exceeded by at least one of its secondary cores.

Philly and Boston have tight height/FAR limits (which used to be tigher) and not much buildable land, meaning that land was often in demand but has tended to be filled with expedient projects rather than tall ones, until the two recently in Philly. Boston is still a tough place to build.

DC is DC.

The SE capitals don't have the core-centricity, waterfronts, or transit shares to move lots of companies and people to pay extra to live in a very specific spot. They also insist on huge amounts of parking, which mean that large complexes need a lot of land. The main exception on the proximity item is residential in Miami.

Of course I'm generalizing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #475  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 12:43 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
That said, Chicago and Toronto, two eminently fine great lakes cities, have the two largest skylines in NA, after NYC of course, and that will forever be a point of interest to me.

Why?

Why two great lakes cities?

No one has ever come anywhere even remotely close to explaining that.
It may be a coincidence that they’re both Great Lakes cities. I don’t know about Chicago, but the story of high rises in Toronto is really a story of residential high rises, and Toronto only really started to build apartment buildings taller than 10 stories in the mid 1950s.

Aside from the racial differences, Toronto’s first crop of residential high rises were aimed at middle class professionals and were placed in the more desirable Yonge street north corridor, along the newly built subway line.

Ironically, Toronto being highly resistant to apartment buildings in the prewar era might have made high rise apartments desirable, since these purpose-built apartments in solid concrete buildings responded to a dire need for a form of housing that would have, up until then, only been available by carving up old wood frame housing into multiple units.

So, the high rise has always just been more desirable in Toronto than in other North American cities, and given Toronto’s growth, it was only a matter of time before really talk residential high rises aimed at the middle classes became acceptable. For example, the Manulife centre, built in 1974, was probably the only 50+ storey all-residential building outside of NYC and Chicago when it was built.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #476  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 9:30 PM
Doady's Avatar
Doady Doady is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,701
Toronto and Chicago are two of the largest metro areas with two of the largest transit systems so they have two of the largest skylines outside New York. Simple.

Washington has decent transit ridership, but it also has those height limits. San Francisco has second highest ridership in the US but it also has the earthquakes, and their policies restrict high-rises to a very small area.

I'm not sure what's up with Boston. They seem to favour sprawl maybe it's just lack of residential skyscrapers.

That's the thing about Toronto. It's mostly residential buildings being built, and some of them are outside of the old city too. To compare the numbers to Chicago could be misleading. I'm not sure Toronto's skyline is near the same level as Chicago's yet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #477  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 9:37 PM
The North One's Avatar
The North One The North One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,489
Chicago gets those cold winds from the plains to the west I think that's why people feel like it's worse.
__________________
Spawn of questionable parentage!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #478  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 9:46 PM
Qubert Qubert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
"The Canadian approach is one Chicago and other Rust Belt cities should study."

Um, what? Localities play zero role in national immigration policy. What are they supposed to "study"? Whether or not adding millions of immigrants to their cities would be beneficial? Any sentient human knows the answer to that question.

In fact the people in charge in the U.S. think we have too much immigration, and want essentially none.
I think there is something to having states be given the power to regulate migration. Imagine if West Virginia was able to give permanent residency on the basis of residing in WV? Alot of rust belt states would see population gains that way. Let the states like CA and AZ that are overwhelmed choose to close off if they want.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #479  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 10:23 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 29,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post
Chicago gets those cold winds from the plains to the west I think that's why people feel like it's worse.
like most things related to the weather in chicago and toronto, average wintertime wind speeds are essentially a wash:

city ------ DEC - JAN -- FEB -- MAR

chicago - 13.7 - 14.4 - 13.5 - 13.1

toronto - 13.5 - 14.4 - 13.7 - 12.6

(speeds in mph)

source: https://weatherspark.com/
__________________
"Missing middle" housing can be a great middle ground for many middle class families.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #480  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 11:15 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 42,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
That said, Chicago and Toronto, two eminently fine great lakes cities, have the two largest skylines in NA, after NYC of course, and that will forever be a point of interest to me.

Why?

Why two great lakes cities?

No one has ever come anywhere even remotely close to explaining that.
If you know the basic geography of Canada and its basic history, it's not surprising at all that any major city would happen to be located in the water system of the St. Lawrence.

Had Lord Durham managed to prevail, it's pretty obviously Montreal that would be the NYC of the country (no regrets tho ). But it has been clear for a long time that this role would eventually pass to the powerhouse of Anglo-Canada eventually, a.k.a. Southern Ontario. And that's totally Great Lakes Country.

Imagine an alternate reality in which Michigan is by far the powerhouse of the USA - Michigan being the equivalent of current CA, TX, NY, FL, IL, PA combined. Is it a surprise that the USA's one great city happens to be pretty well connected to the Great Lakes then?
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:10 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.