Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[bomberjet]

101 would be easier for sure. It's already a freeway from east of Hwy 59 to west of Hwy 8. Save for the rail crossing.

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Originally Posted by Andy6

It was inadequate when St Mary’s was a country road. Back before Bishop Grandin was built, we used to have to drive down there to go to the U of M, and I recall that it seemed dangerous even then. That so little has been done with it as St Vital has doubled (at least) in population is very strange. They really should put a turnoff from the westbound Perimeter to northbound Dakota Street to take some of the pressure off St Mary’s.

Indeed; as a kid, whether we were going on short trips, such as to the Pembina or Odeon Drive-Ins or longer ones to visit relatives in western Manitoba, that intersection always got the adrenaline going as it was never built to proper standards.

It is long past the day it should have been upgraded to an interchange with other amenities like storm sewers and other ultra-modern doodads.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Andy6

They really should put a turnoff from the westbound Perimeter to northbound Dakota Street to take some of the pressure off St Mary’s.

Actually, you can see exactly what the city has in mind as far as Dakota is concerned at the Perimeter. A simple flyover. Now with the province seriously working on upgrading 100 to freeway standard, there's pretty much no chance that it will ever be anything else than a flyover.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by DavefromSt.Vital

"upgraded to an interchange with other amenities like storm sewers and other ultra-modern doodads."

Ultra-modern...like right out of the 60's ultra-modern would be nice for anywhere along that stretch.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Actually, you can see exactly what the city has in mind as far as Dakota is concerned at the Perimeter. A simple flyover. Now with the province seriously working on upgrading 100 to freeway standard, there's pretty much no chance that it will ever be anything else than a flyover.

Yea that would put too many access points in that stretch. Only a flyover to the future development of south St Vital for Dakota.

The developers of River Park South did put "future access to Perimeter" on their promotional materials but hopefully that doesn't happen.

Plain and simple, St Mary's needs an interchange. That will improve the flow and eliminate that queue of EB to NB left turns that spills out into through lanes.

[bomberjet]

In case some haven't seen or have forget. Detailed maps here of the functional plan for 100.

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/hpd/pth100/public.html

Looks awesome. But again, we have no (bobby) dollas.

[bomberjet]

Every time I see Ron Schuler's photo.



I think of this.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

In case some haven't seen or have forget. Detailed maps here of the functional plan for 100.

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/hpd/pth100/public.html

Looks awesome. But again, we have no (bobby) dollas.

I have that saved on my laptop.

[bomberjet]

I just looked through the plans again and it's numerous billions of dollars. So far haven't heard any election promises either.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I just looked through the plans again and it's numerous billions of dollars. So far haven't heard any election promises either.

True, but building interchanges one at a time piecemeal might prove to be the best option.

Do one major interchange at a time and maybe a minor one here and there too.

That way you're not laying out tons of capital in a single wad and it becomes more like an ongoing cost thing for Manitoba Infrastructure.

[bomberjet]

That's how itll be done. Maybe one or two really mega type project. Otherwise itll be piece by piece.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by wave46

True, but building interchanges one at a time piecemeal might prove to be the best option.

Do one major interchange at a time and maybe a minor one here and there too.

That way you're not laying out tons of capital in a single wad and it becomes more like an ongoing cost thing for Manitoba Infrastructure.

...and then they all have to be replaced at the same time as well.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by buzzg

...and then they all have to be replaced at the same time as well.

They may be considering a P3. This stretches the capital cost over 30 years or so. The biggest advantage is risk transfer to the private sector. The Regina Bypass will be fully open in October. It is $2 billion. After 30 years they must turn over the project to the Government in “like new” condition. As a result they have used cutting-edge pavement tech and better bridge structures than the Government may have used. I will let you know how it is when it opens.

P3's have received criticism in Saskatchewan from the NDP and unions, but I have no doubt that some of them would have had massive cost overruns if the Government did them. One P3 hospital has a bad roof, but that is the contractor's problem for 30 years. If it was not a P3, it may have been on the taxpayer dime.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Stormer

P3's have received criticism in Saskatchewan from the NDP and unions, but I have no doubt that some of them would have had massive cost overruns if the Government did them.

The fact that P3's get criticized by the NDP & unions probably means they are a good thing.

[bomberjet]

I'm somewhere in the middle on P3's. The innovations and outside the box thinking are usually pretty good. It reduces the costs. But it's all about minimizing everything to win the job. You need really good specs and control from the governments. Otherwise you'll end up with some stripped down version of what you want.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'm somewhere in the middle on P3's. The innovations and outside the box thinking are usually pretty good. It reduces the costs. But it's all about minimizing everything to win the job. You need really good specs and control from the governments. Otherwise you'll end up with some stripped down version of what you want.

Or you get something highly functional without the bells and whistles you maybe cant afford. So far the Regina Bypass looks awesome and its on time and on budget.

[cllew]

I have to say I have seen Plenatary doing more preventive maintenance on Disraeli than the city ever did when it was a public bridge.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Yea that would put too many access points in that stretch. Only a flyover to the future development of south St Vital for Dakota.

The Dakota flyover isn't happening. Look at the functional design for 100. There is no fly-over. Further, if you look at the plans for St Marys it clearly shows a new access road south the Perimeter running towards where the Dakota flyover would connect. Clearly the plan is to just utilize the St Marys intersection after upgrades.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The Dakota flyover isn't happening. Look at the functional design for 100. There is no fly-over. Further, if you look at the plans for St Marys it clearly shows a new access road south the Perimeter running towards where the Dakota flyover would connect. Clearly the plan is to just utilize the St Marys intersection after upgrades.

Right but that doesn't take into account that a developer would probably put it in when the land gets developed. You're saying since it isn't included in the current plans it won't happen... I don't think you can infer the city's plan for its collector street grid based on the perimeter upgrade plan

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Stormer

Or you get something highly functional without the bells and whistles you maybe cant afford. So far the Regina Bypass looks awesome and its on time and on budget.

Perfect. It's not about bells and whistles. Chief Peguis Trail in Winnipeg for example. We've discussed before. The pavement is up and down all over the place. Specs for ride quality were not included. So they lumped in the gravel, finished 1 year ahead of schedule. Now the road is terrible. Sure it's a road that you can drive on and it's gets you to the other end. But it's not in very good shape. They'll maintain it for 30 years and give it back in "like new condition".

Disraeli in Winnipeg has turned out fairly well.

Southwest Transitway is a mixed bag. The transitway itself should be fine. The rest was trimmed and cut. We'll see how it turns out. Cost was re3dcued from $590MM to $400MM due to innovations during bid pursuit. Changing a tunnel to a bridge. Things like that is where the magic is.

Purely looking at the model of having private businesses pay up front, it's the way to go.