[Moncton] Old Moncton High School Redevelopment (under construction)

[Monctonis]

Originally Posted by David_99

What's the rent though? The province originally said MHS would cost upwards of $40M to renovate, which is why they went with a new school out in Tankville at a cheaper $30M. Is the Library expected to pay a rent upwards of $500,000/y? Up from their current $1/month? Did they say in the presentation how much $$ MH35 would be putting into the project?

They do pay $1 for rent but the also pay $567,811 a year for maintenance costs and parking so that would basically cost the same thing. I'm not sure how much MH35 is putting into it no.

[MonctonRad]

Statement by Mayor Dawn Arnold on her FB page about a new proposal for the redevelopment of the old MHS site:

The Province of New Brunswick, as owner of the building, has been approached by Terra Trust and Bird Construction with a proposal to repurpose the former Moncton High School Property.
 The Province continues to direct potential developers to contact the City to discuss the municipal plan and by-law implications as well as heritage property details and so that the City can confirm, in principle, that the proposed project is in keeping with the City’s vision for redevelopment of the former school site.
 Moncton City Council received a copy of the proposal and a presentation on the proposed project from Terra Trust and Bird Construction. The Proponent, as per the Province’s direction, also requested a letter from the City of Moncton that would indicate, to the Province, that the City agrees, in principle, that the project is in keeping with the City’s vision for redevelopment of the site.
 At the January 9, 2017 private session Council agreed that the Terra / Bird proposal is another option for re-purposing the former school site. The details of that proposal will be made public at the appropriate time by the proponent.
 City staff continue to do further due diligence on the MH35 Proposal (previously presented to Council) and plan to return to Council, in private session, in late February to present (all the known information) on proposals for the former Moncton High School site that exist at that time.
 The City of Moncton wishes to continue to work with the Province to undertake a thorough analysis, including the merits and constraints of each proposal/option that theProvince receives.
 The City of Moncton has encouraged the Terra Trust / Bird proponent to reach out to the MH35 proponents to see if the two proposals can co-exist/cooperate on the former school property.

The actual proposal by Terra Trust/Bird Construction is still secret, so there really isn't too much more to say at the present time. I'm glad to see however that interest in this property remains active.

FWIW, Bird Construction is a very reputable firm, and is the company responsible for building the new downtown events centre. Terra Trust is more of a mystery, but a quicky online search shows that it is a wholly owned subsidiary of Westbridge Capital Corporation, and was responsible for the construction of the new NBLC on Mountain Road. As such, this is likely not a fly-by-night proposal and will likely be a serious alternative to the MH35 proposal........

[ScoutDog]

Listening to CBC this morning, there were 5 councilors vote against the new proposal AND Councilor Theriault left the meeting because of her frustration with those who voted for to hear it.

Maybe I am missing something here but isn't another proposal a REALLY GOOD THING for this city? I understand citizens (MH35) have invested A LOT of time, effort and money in their initiative BUT the first reason they started this movement was to save this iconic building.

Am I wrong in thinking that those who voted against the proposal may be a bit too close to MH35 group?

Just curious and would be interested to hearing your thoughts.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Statement by Mayor Dawn Arnold on her FB page about a new proposal for the redevelopment of the old MHS site:



The actual proposal by Terra Trust/Bird Construction is still secret, so there really isn't too much more to say at the present time. I'm glad to see however that interest in this property remains active.

FWIW, Bird Construction is a very reputable firm, and is the company responsible for building the new downtown events centre. Terra Trust is more of a mystery, but a quicky online search shows that it is a wholly owned subsidiary of Westbridge Capital Corporation, and was responsible for the construction of the new NBLC on Mountain Road. As such, this is likely not a fly-by-night proposal and will likely be a serious alternative to the MH35 proposal........

[FarmerTom]

Sounds like to me she has a hand in the MH35 proposal. If so that would be a direct conflict of interest would it not

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by ScoutDog

Listening to CBC this morning, there were 5 councilors vote against the new proposal AND Councilor Theriault left the meeting because of her frustration with those who voted for to hear it.

Maybe I am missing something here but isn't another proposal a REALLY GOOD THING for this city? I understand citizens (MH35) have invested A LOT of time, effort and money in their initiative BUT the first reason they started this movement was to save this iconic building.

Am I wrong in thinking that those who voted against the proposal may be a bit too close to MH35 group?

Just curious and would be interested to hearing your thoughts.

It could be that some councilors may be too close to the MH35 group, but I do not know this for a fact.

I have a great deal of respect for the MH35 group. They are volunteer citizens who have invested a lot of time and effort in developing their proposal. Their proposal is a good one, but the idea of moving the city library to the old Moncton High School is a very contentious and divisive one. This could be the main source of internal debate.

It would be very nice to know what the new proposal entails. There are certain parts of the MH35 proposal that I personally am strongly in favour of, especially the retention of the old gym and auditorium as a performance space and as a home for the Atlantic Ballet Theatre. I think this part of MH35 should be retained at all costs.

Maybe there is some way that these two proposals can be blended to keep the best of both worlds - a new home for the Atlantic Ballet Theatre and keeping the Moncton Public Library at the Blue Cross Centre.......

[Monctonis]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It would be very nice to know what the new proposal entails.

Don't have any details on what they are planning to do but from what I've heard, they want it for the land and would demolish a big chunk of the buildling.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Monctonis

Don't have any details on what they are planning to do but from what I've heard, they want it for the land and would demolish a big chunk of the buildling.

Here's the link to the CBC article over the dust-up in council over this proposal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...-mhs-1.3938874

They aren't explicit (council is sworn to secrecy over this new second proposal), but judging from the tenor of Councilor Crossman's comments, I would say that you are correct and that the Bird/Terra proposal likely involves significant demolition of the current building. If so, we are probably heading towards a major philosophical debate over whether the whole building needs to be saved or just bits and pieces. This debate will touch on the importance of historical preservation, sentimentality, cost and and the whole concept of private redevelopment vs public (and/or) non profit redevelopment.

It could be fun times on city council over the next six months or so.......

I would say that Bird/Terra is probably behind the eight ball on this unless they have a really high quality redevelopment proposal for the parts of the old school they want to demolish. If they do, this will definitely strengthen their position.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Here's the link to the CBC article over the dust-up in council over this proposal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...-mhs-1.3938874

They aren't explicit (council is sworn to secrecy over this new second proposal), but judging from the tenor of Councilor Crossman's comments, I would say that you are correct and that the Bird/Terra proposal likely involves significant demolition of the current building. If so, we are probably heading towards a major philosophical debate over whether the whole building needs to be saved or just bits and pieces. This debate will touch on the importance of historical preservation, sentimentality, cost and and the whole concept of private redevelopment vs public (and/or) non profit redevelopment.


It could be fun times on city council over the next six months or so.......

I would say that Bird/Terra is probably behind the eight ball on this unless they have a really high quality redevelopment proposal for the parts of the old school they want to demolish. If they do, this will definitely strengthen their position.

There are rumors that the part they would keep would be the Gym, and Auditorium, and potentially be demolishing the rest to build a Mix use building with Commercial, Offices, and Residential apartments. But this is apparently based on another project Terra Trust had a hand in. I'm not sure how much of it is true but if this is the case. In my opinion it would potentially change the dynamic of this area for the better.

I'm still looking to find Terra Trust on any projects like this but have yet to find one. I only found 2 listed, and they are affordable housing for first time purchasers it seems, and they seem to be into adding greenery anywhere possible. I'm guessing they worked with another company on a project (and have not added it to there portfolio), or someone confused 2 companies.

[NBNYer]

An interesting discussion on CBC radio-one this morning about the new proposal with a few more tidbits of information. Apparently, the proposal would call for the demolition of a large part of the building except for the gymnasium and auditorium and would include a significant development extending north along Church street.

The objective of the MH35 group is to preserve a heritage building and therefore their proposal would maintain as much of the building as possible, the same can't be said about this new Bird/Terra proposal. However, sacrificing part of the building while having the library stay downtown might be an acceptable compromise, especially if it come with a significant, high-density development in a central city neighborhood. On the other hand, I also think councillor Thériault's concern that the province may be given "carte blanche" in deciding the fate of the building a legitimate concern, especially considering that the city is in this predicament because of the provinces decision to move the school to begin with. We would definitely need to see more in order to make an informed decision on which project to support.

[MonctonRad]

I listened to the CBC piece as well.

It was interesting to hear both Councilor Theriault's and Councilor Turner's perspectives on the Bird/Terra proposal. It was difficult to believe they were talking about the same project!

Paulette Theriault referred to the Bird/Terra proposal as a wholesale demolition that "might" preserve the auditorium/gymnasium wing. She referred to the proposal as another "U-Haul fiasco"

Greg Turner on the other hand stated that large portions of the façade would be maintained and that casual passers-by on Mountain Road and Church Street wouldn't notice too much different. He stated that the project would include residential and commercial components and extend much further north on Church Street, presumably incorporating the old MHS parking lot.

There is a risk that the province might favour this proposal over the MH35 one, especially if there is no public money involved, and if it avoids the controversy over relocating the Moncton Public Library. As I stated before, I think the preservation of the old auditorium/gymnasium wing as a performance/public arts space and as a future home of the Atlantic Ballet Theatre should be vital to either proposal.

Regardless, there are so many rumours flying about the Bird/Terra proposal now that I think it would be counterproductive to them to keep the details secret. I think they should let us know what's in their proposal so that a proper discussion can ensue........

[Feneant]

I definitely think the building should be saved, it's one of the few heritage buildings in Moncton, which is, when you look at the big picture, not a good looking city at all. Halifax, Charlottetown, St. John's, they have all heritage areas, or at least areas of distinct architecture where Moncton has none of that barring the odd building/church.

[MonctonRad]

There was an MH35 presentation to city council last evening.

- Councillor Brian Butler "accidentally" let it slip that the competing Bird/Terra proposal involves demolition of a large portion of the existing building.
- Dennis Cochrane of the MH35 Group admitted that it "might have been a mistake" for his proposal to rely so heavily on relocating the municipal library to the MHS site, since it has engendered so much opposition from a variety of groups and individuals.

The next several months will be very interesting. There are definite factions developing within city council over what should be done with the old MHS. Unless city council can come up with some form of consensus on this file, they risk the province making the ultimate decision on the fate of MHS...........

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There was an MH35 presentation to city council last evening.

- Councillor Brian Butler "accidentally" let it slip that the competing Bird/Terra proposal involves demolition of a large portion of the existing building.
- Dennis Cochrane of the MH35 Group admitted that it "might have been a mistake" for his proposal to rely so heavily on relocating the municipal library to the MHS site, since it has engendered so much opposition from a variety of groups and individuals.

The next several months will be very interesting. There are definite factions developing within city council over what should be done with the old MHS. Unless city council can come up with some form of consensus on this file, they risk the province making the ultimate decision on the fate of MHS...........

I think the province has already given the city a time line to make a decision, or the province will be making it.

If that happens it would look bad on city council.

[MonctonRad]

Several articles and opinion pieces in the T&T today regarding the lack of information about the second "mystery" redevelopment proposal for the old MHS site by Bird Construction & Terra Developments.



The report on the financial implications of relocating the Moncton Public Library to MHS (the MH35 proposal) is due out by the end of the month. Debate on this issue will follow. It's really hard to have an informed debate (as far as the public is concerned) without knowing the details of the competing (Bird/Terra) proposal.

It's time for Bird/Terra to fess up!!!

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Several articles and opinion pieces in the T&T today regarding the lack of information about the second "mystery" redevelopment proposal for the old MHS site by Bird Construction & Terra Developments.



The report on the financial implications of relocating the Moncton Public Library to MHS (the MH35 proposal) is due out by the end of the month. Debate on this issue will follow. It's really hard to have an informed debate (as far as the public is concerned) without knowing the details of the competing (Bird/Terra) proposal.

It's time for Bird/Terra to fess up!!!

Agree.

It does seem like Bird/Terra are trying to keep there plans hush ti'll they get approval. But I personally don't see people staying out of there way as long as they keep quiet.

[MonctonRad]

Nothing new to report, but I came across the best rendered floor plans yet of what MH35 is proposing for the old Moncton High School.







Project Benefits

Financial: The MH35 Centre is for the financial benefit of our community, not a private corporation, and decisions are made by our citizens for the betterment of our children and our grandchildren.

Restoration and Preservation: Repurposing this building paid for by the citizens of Moncton and built by excellent craftsmen will enable the continued use of it by our residents and a source of community pride for another 80 years.

Library Rejuvenation: The inclusion of the City of Moncton library will add to MH35’s Mission Statement of encouraging arts, education and culture, and would reinvigorate the library.

Historical Legacy: The historical nature of the structure has an emotional attachment to our citizens as well as past graduates and educators. This project will put Moncton at the forefront of municipal efforts throughout the country to celebrate heritage and preserve historic buildings.

Innovation: The redevelopment could be another example of what our community is known for; punching above its weight class and its can-do attitude.

Culture: The MH35 Theatre will become the largest Performing Arts in the Atlantic Region, even larger than the Rebecca Cohn Auditorium in Halifax and the Confederation Theatre in Charlottetown. A redeveloped 1,140 seat Theatre would be available for the community without any financial debt. The MH35 Theatre will bring a completely new level of performing arts to the citizens of Moncton and put Moncton on the national performing theatre circuit.

Extending the Downtown: The MH35 Centre would breathe new life into this residential area, and will become another cultural and educational component of the area, which already includes Resurgo Place, Theatre L’Escaouette and the Aberdeen Cultural Centre.

Tax Revenue: The MH35 Centre coupled with the proposed library move will create additional direct tax revenue to the city.

Ample Parking: The location of MH35 and its free adjacent parking for all types of transportation will enhance the number of visits to the development and the library in particular.

Expertise: The MH35 Centre has been developed by qualified community leaders over the past twenty months who have extensive experience in real estate development, construction, school repurposing, politics, and community service. The best interests of Moncton are foremost in their endeavors.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Nothing new to report, but I came across the best rendered floor plans yet of what MH35 is proposing for the old Moncton High School.







Project Benefits

Financial: The MH35 Centre is for the financial benefit of our community, not a private corporation, and decisions are made by our citizens for the betterment of our children and our grandchildren.

Restoration and Preservation: Repurposing this building paid for by the citizens of Moncton and built by excellent craftsmen will enable the continued use of it by our residents and a source of community pride for another 80 years.

Library Rejuvenation: The inclusion of the City of Moncton library will add to MH35’s Mission Statement of encouraging arts, education and culture, and would reinvigorate the library.

Historical Legacy: The historical nature of the structure has an emotional attachment to our citizens as well as past graduates and educators. This project will put Moncton at the forefront of municipal efforts throughout the country to celebrate heritage and preserve historic buildings.

Innovation: The redevelopment could be another example of what our community is known for; punching above its weight class and its can-do attitude.

Culture: The MH35 Theatre will become the largest Performing Arts in the Atlantic Region, even larger than the Rebecca Cohn Auditorium in Halifax and the Confederation Theatre in Charlottetown. A redeveloped 1,140 seat Theatre would be available for the community without any financial debt. The MH35 Theatre will bring a completely new level of performing arts to the citizens of Moncton and put Moncton on the national performing theatre circuit.

Extending the Downtown: The MH35 Centre would breathe new life into this residential area, and will become another cultural and educational component of the area, which already includes Resurgo Place, Theatre L’Escaouette and the Aberdeen Cultural Centre.

Tax Revenue: The MH35 Centre coupled with the proposed library move will create additional direct tax revenue to the city.

Ample Parking: The location of MH35 and its free adjacent parking for all types of transportation will enhance the number of visits to the development and the library in particular.

Expertise: The MH35 Centre has been developed by qualified community leaders over the past twenty months who have extensive experience in real estate development, construction, school repurposing, politics, and community service. The best interests of Moncton are foremost in their endeavors.

2 Problems I still see with this (There are more then that but still)

1. Tax Payer funded project, and City operated: I don't believe this would make any income for the city, and would in fact cost money every year.

2.

Expertise: The MH35 Centre has been developed by qualified community leaders over the past twenty months who have extensive experience in real estate development, construction, school repurposing, politics, and community service. The best interests of Moncton are foremost in their endeavors.

It seems they din't actually do any research before trowing this project at the public, and with the mixed reviews Seemingly more negative from the people who actually use the public library, and the peoples who's taxes would sky rocket if this project added this area, and it's surroundings to Downtown Moncton. But also claiming to be professionals but they never talked to any of the groups about moving into this building before putting it out there as factual that all these services would move there from what I've been hearing. there is also the fact about the yearly cost tax payers are going to have to pay I doubt this building will make any of that money back, or even break even.

[MonctonRad]

'It's a mystery proposal': Frustrations mount about old Moncton High proposal
Residents and councillors upset by lack of transparency and action from city council about building
By Tori Weldon, CBC News Posted: Mar 31, 2017 7:10 PM AT
Last Updated: Mar 31, 2017 7:10 PM AT
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...ncil-1.4048411

Residents and city councillors are expressing frustration that a proposal by Terra Trust and Bird Construction to give new life to the former Moncton High building remains a secret nearly three months after it was first presented to council in a private session.

Having seen the plan, (deputy mayor Shawn) Crossman said he has concerns.

"I've had conversations with Bird and Terra and I don't see any 100% solid, "yes, we're going to save the theatre" or "yes, we're going to save the gym."

Terra Trust and Bird Construction were both contacted by the CBC to comment on what the companies plan to do with the building, and when they will make their plan public, but neither returned phone calls or emails.

Personal note - I'm beginning to think that Bird/Terra know their proposal is inferior to the MH35 plan, but that it is less expensive to the public purse (which could be attractive to the provincial government). This is probably influencing their strategy. It probably isn't in Bird/Terra's best interest to make public what their plans really are. They're just waiting for the MH35 proposal to implode over opposition to moving the library, and then swoop in as the only viable alternative and "save the day". If they won't commit to preserving the theatre or gymnasium however, I wonder if their plan is even worth it. Using this line of thought, the Bird/Terra proposal could even be considered predatory...........

It's time for Bird/Terra to fess up and let us all know what's going on. After all, how can the public make an informed opinion if they don't know what the alternate plan is??? People might not be happy with idea of moving the library, or the cost of moving the library, but if they understood that the consequences of not supporting MH35 means that the heart and soul of the old MHS will be lost forever, they could have a change of heart.

C'mon Bird/Terra, let us know what your real plans are!!!

[MonctonRad]

The feasibility study on moving the Moncton Public Library to the old MHS site will be presented to Moncton city council tomorrow night.

[MonctonRad]

from the MH35 Facebook page:

MH Renaissance Inc. continues work to attract tenants to MH35 project to rejuvenate former Moncton High School

The group of community business leaders behind the MH35 proposal to redevelop the former Moncton High School at the corner of Church Street and Mountain Road in Moncton remains very optimistic and enthusiastic that their project will move forward.

“We continue to receive a number of inquiries from potential tenants for all floors and the arts centre side on a weekly basis,” said Dennis Cochrane, President of MH Renaissance Inc. “While much has been said about moving the Moncton Public Library to MH35, we want to make it abundantly clear that we intend to move forward with or without the library. There is a lot of private-sector interest in the property.”

“We have always said that our preference for the City of Moncton’s contribution to the project would be relocating the library,” Mr. Cochrane said. “We have also consistently indicated that it is not a deal-breaker. We have indicated to members of Moncton City Council that their support for the project would show vision and leadership and was crucial to the redevelopment of the site, and – if they were not prepared to relocate the library – then what were they prepared to contribute to the project so that it could move forward and continue to serve the Greater Moncton community for another 82 years? We have been working with the City of Moncton for more than two years.”

The group working on the MH35 proposal includes Mr. Cochrane, a former Moncton city councillor, mayor, MP and MLA, as well as Jim Lockyer, a former provincial cabinet minister, city councillor and currently a law professor at the Université de Moncton, and well-respected property developers and construction industry leaders John Corazza and Joe Tippett. The proposal would see the former Moncton High School undergo significant internal expansion and renovations, including a renovated auditorium and space for arts groups and artists, including the Atlantic Ballet Theatre of Canada and others.

“It’s our full intention to make the former Moncton High School a beautiful example of what can be done with a heritage building,” Mr. Cochrane says. “Our proposal is to save the entire building and enhance it. Unlike another proposal on the table, we have no intention of demolishing most of it for a parking lot and leaving the auditorium to fall into disrepair. This would be a huge tragedy for our city’s heritage. Moncton deserves better than that.”

“We have been open and honest with Monctonians since day one,” he says. “We have not worked under a cloak of secrecy. We’ve presented to public sessions of council, met with a number of community groups and stakeholders – including the Moncton Public Library Board on a number of occasions – produced videos and architectural drawings, done media interviews and been active on social media. As well, last spring, we held public information sessions. We have been open and transparent. We think Monctonians deserve nothing less.”

Currently, MH Renaissance continues to meet regularly with prospective tenants in the private sector and the arts community. It is also the intent to have the rejuvenated complex be Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design® (LEED) certified, a rating system recognized as the international mark of excellence for green building in more than 160 countries. LEED recognizes that sustainability should be at the heart of all buildings – in their design, construction and operation. Green buildings create a healthier indoor environment for occupants through better indoor air quality, less harmful products, and more natural daylight. They also reduce waste, conserve energy, decrease water consumption, and drive innovation.

“At this time, we want to sincerely thank our many supporters, including the public and many local politicians who are passionate about preserving and enhancing this heritage building. We recognize the love people have for this majestic structure,” Mr. Cochrane said. “It is heartening to know that they share our vision of the former Moncton High School.”

Sounds like MH35 knows something about the secret Bird/Terra proposal. Maybe theres a reason why the Bird/Terra proposal is secret.......