De-Amalgamation of Winnipeg

[balletomane]

Population for all former cities and towns in Winnipeg, 1901 to 2016. Winnipeg does not include Inkster Gardens annexed in 1963 and St. James is for the pre-amalgamated city that existed prior to 1967.

Winnipeg (city)
1901 42,340
1911 136,035
1921 179,097
1931 218,785
1941 221,960
1951 235,710
1961 265,429
1971 245,637
1981 200,002
1991 196,384
2001 189,801
2011 193,925
2016 200,188

St. Vital (city)
1901 585
1911 1,540
1921 3,771
1931 10,402
1941 11,993
1951 18,637
1961 27,269
1971 32,963
1981 43,729
1991 57,405
2001 60,649
2011 66,149
2016 69,027

St. Boniface (city)
1901 2,019
1911 7,483
1921 12,821
1931 16,305
1941 18,157
1951 26,342
1961 37,600
1971 46,714
1981 43,465
1991 43,771
2001 46,318
2011 54,201
2016 59,823

Transcona (city)
1921 4,185
1931 5,747
1941 5,495
1951 6,752
1961 14,248
1971 22,506
1981 25,932
1991 29,468
2001 28,414
2011 30,540
2016 32,352

St. James (city)
1901 257
1911 5,335
1921 11,745
1931 14,260
1941 13,892
1951 19,561
1961 33,977
1971 36,989
1981 30,212
1991 28,641
2001 27,824
2011 27,440
2016 28,120

East Kildonan (city)
1901 563
1911 1,488
1921 6,379
1931 9,047
1941 8,350
1951 13,144
1961 27,305
1971 30,152
1981 29,273
1991 26,939
2001 26,485
2011 26,278
2016 26,623

West Kildonan (city)
1901 668
1911 1,767
1921 4,641
1931 6,132
1941 6,110
1951 10,754
1961 20,077
1971 23,959
1981 20,555
1991 21,636
2001 20,650
2011 21,649
2016 22,391

Tuxedo (town)
1931 1,193
1941 735
1951 1,627
1961 1,627
1971 3,258
1981 4,907
1991 12,094
2001 14,550
2011 17,946
2016 18,483

Brooklands (town)
1931 2,462
1941 2,240
1951 2,915
1961 4,369
1971 3,940
1981 2,589
1991 2,478
2001 2,330
2011 2,417
2016 2,770

[drew]

It would interesting, but hard to figure out - how much of the population decline in some the older areas of Winnipeg is due to in part to gentrification - rather than people fleeing to the suburbs.

Areas like Wolseley and West Broadway (IIRC) have current populations well below the peak in the 1960's - but a big part of that appears to be the loss of rooming houses and conversions of duplexes and triplexes back to SFHs.

[esquire]

^ Gentrification and as noted in the 'ghettos' thread of the Canada subforum, smaller families. In my parents' day it wasn't unusual to have a family of six or seven in a 1000 sf house. These days that is almost unheard of.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Gentrification and as noted in the 'ghettos' thread of the Canada subforum, smaller families. In my parents' day it wasn't unusual to have a family of six or seven in a 1000 sf house. These days that is almost unheard of.

Actually it's quite common for a lot of people who have immigrated here in the last generation or two — who tend to live in newer suburbs here. Many cultures from the other side of the world live with 3 (sometimes 4) generations all in the same house.

[esquire]

^ Those families are generally living in much larger houses, though. You go to NW Winnipeg and the multigenerational Punjabi or Filipino families are often living in 2000+ SF homes.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by drew

It would interesting, but hard to figure out - how much of the population decline in some the older areas of Winnipeg is due to in part to gentrification - rather than people fleeing to the suburbs.

Areas like Wolseley and West Broadway (IIRC) have current populations well below the peak in the 1960's - but a big part of that appears to be the loss of rooming houses and conversions of duplexes and triplexes back to SFHs.

I think these are significant factors. In the 1960s, the older neighbourhoods of Winnipeg would have been fully built out (ie, no vacant residential sites), at a time of relatively high immigration levels, larger households. There wouldn't have been the same housing shortage there was immediately following the war, but there still would have been a lot of people needing to live in rooming houses, or with other adult generations of their family.

There was no rapid 'white flight' or similar types of massive out-migration in Winnipeg neighbourhoods. (Except maybe very old areas close to downtown: South Portage, South Point Douglas, etc., which almost disappeared entirely in the 1960s.)

[CoryB]

Almost a year later the whole De-Amalgamation of Winnipeg concept doesn't change the fact that this discussion is really about kicking the north end out of the city and making them "pay their own way".

It is really about redefining "Winnipeg" as follows: start at 1 and 100 on the eastern side. Follow HWY 1 to 59 then go north Marion, continue west on Marion to Patent, north to Mission, west to Archibald, north Nairn, west to Stradaconna, north to Midwinter, west to Disraeli, south to Main St, west up Alexander to Sherbroke, north to Logan, then west along Logan (and its path) until you hit the west Perimeter.

Anything north of that line would then not be part of Winnipeg and called something like "Not My Winnipeg".

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Almost a year later the whole De-Amalgamation of Winnipeg concept doesn't change the fact that this discussion is really about kicking the north end out of the city and making them "pay their own way".

It is really about redefining "Winnipeg" as follows: start at 1 and 100 on the eastern side. Follow HWY 1 to 59 then go north Marion, continue west on Marion to Patent, north to Mission, west to Archibald, north Nairn, west to Stradaconna, north to Midwinter, west to Disraeli, south to Main St, west up Alexander to Sherbroke, north to Logan, then west along Logan (and its path) until you hit the west Perimeter.

Anything north of that line would then not be part of Winnipeg and called something like "Not My Winnipeg".

.......wut........

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Those families are generally living in much larger houses, though. You go to NW Winnipeg and the multigenerational Punjabi or Filipino families are often living in 2000+ SF homes.

Just 2000 sq foot? Bridge water is fulll of much large homes with many families in one house.
As a side note I live in a 2000 sq ft home with only me and my wife and our dogs. So.............loll

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

.......wut........

Optimus.....Cory is anti south Winnipeg. All he cares about is his expressway to OakBank. That’s it. So hence his crying about the north end being shunned.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Just 2000 sq foot? Bridge water is fulll of much large homes with many families in one house.
As a side note I live in a 2000 sq ft home with only me and my wife and our dogs. So.............loll

2000+. Meaning they start at 2000 square feet. Not that they are all 2000 square feet.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Optimus.....Cory is anti south Winnipeg. All he cares about is his expressway to OakBank. That’s it. So hence his crying about the north end being shunned.

Lol I know that but it wasn't to be found anywhere in the conversation so I was confused. Seems like a stretch

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Gentrification and as noted in the 'ghettos' thread of the Canada subforum, smaller families. In my parents' day it wasn't unusual to have a family of six or seven in a 1000 sf house. These days that is almost unheard of.

Definitely. That's why we need to take things like "Winnipeg's footprint has expanded at a way faster pace than it's population growth" with a grain of salt. While true, strictly speaking, it doesn't account for the fact that average household sizes are about 60% of what they were after WWII (from 4+ then to 2.5 now).

[blueandgoldguy]

Despite the much ballyhooed revitalization of downtown Winnipeg in the media - and to a lesser extent here - those numbers are a sobering reminder of how far we really have to go before we reach that "critical mass" necessary for it to become truly thriving area. Not even 2,000 additional added to the downtown population in 15 years. At this rate, there might be a whopping 20,000 people living downtown by 2031 or so. That's depressing.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Despite the much ballyhooed revitalization of downtown Winnipeg in the media - and to a lesser extent here - those numbers are a sobering reminder of how far we really have to go before we reach that "critical mass" necessary for it to become truly thriving area. Not even 2,000 additional added to the downtown population in 15 years. At this rate, there might be a whopping 20,000 people living downtown by 2031 or so. That's depressing.

Hard to convince people to move downtown if there's no mainline grocery stores or if retail is dying. If the bay and portage place were doing well and we generally had a thriving DT people would be less averse to living there. It's happening though, albeit slowly.

Between Broadway and portage is where we need to add the most people and where it would make the greatest difference. TNS and 300 main are a great start though

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Lol I know that but it wasn't to be found anywhere in the conversation so I was confused. Seems like a stretch

It is actually right in the first post:

Originally Posted by balletomane

What could be the possible advantages and disadvantages of a de-amalgamated Winnipeg?

Add in the background of the conversations in general that have happened public in Winnipeg in about the past five years and it is very much the popular opinion that the south portion of Winnipeg should stop paying for anything in the north "Not My Winnipeg". It is clearly what balletomane was getting at when they made this original post.

[balletomane]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It is actually right in the first post:



Add in the background of the conversations in general that have happened public in Winnipeg in about the past five years and it is very much the popular opinion that the south portion of Winnipeg should stop paying for anything in the north "Not My Winnipeg". It is clearly what balletomane was getting at when they made this original post.

Not necessarily, when I first posed this question I was more so curious as to how Winnipeg would function without the mega merger in the first place, not the municipal boundaries redrawn between "My Winnipeg" and "Not My Winnipeg".

[balletomane]

I got bored and calculated the population of inner city neighbourhoods (former city of Winnipeg) from 1941 to present (the 1941 census was when census tracts were first used).

Downtown
1941: 27,543
1951: 23,465
1956: 20,693
1961: 17,429
1966: 15,511
1971: 14,417
1976: 13,453
1981: 12,934
1986: 14,187
1991: 16,054
1996: 15,521
2001: 15,954
2006: 15,960
2011: 16,673
2016: 17,826

West End
1941: 83,463
1951: 83,575
1956: 86,646
1961: 87,294
1966: 82,498
1971: 76,265
1976: 66,473
1981: 60,142
1986: 61,691
1991: 58,654
1996: 56,587
2001: 56,055
2006: 56,340
2011: 56,521
2016: 58,668

North End
1941: 59,170
1951: 64,199
1956: 68,190
1961: 70,902
1966: 65,825
1971: 63,107
1976: 54,599
1981: 48,120
1986: 47,753
1991: 45,921
1996: 44,363
2001: 43,427
2006: 44,156
2011: 46,766
2016: 48,320

River Heights
1941: 40,049
1951: 50,126
1956: 63,148
1961: 70,988
1966: 73,562
1971: 72,939
1976: 68,370
1981: 63,428
1986: 63,123
1991: 60,614
1996: 60,219
2001: 60,002
2006: 59,897
2011: 59,159
2016: 60,661

Elmwood
1941: 11,735
1951: 14,345
1956: 16,434
1961: 18,806
1966: 19,033
1971: 18,819
1976: 17,304
1981: 15,378
1986: 15,445
1991: 15,141
1996: 14,733
2001: 14,363
2006: 14,358
2011: 14,806
2016: 14,713

Census tracts might not follow our common perception of certain areas or neighbourhoods in Winnipeg, so to clarify boundaries

Downtown
bounded on the north by the CPR mainline, on the east by the Red River, on the south by the Assiniboine River and on the west by Isabel/Balmoral/Colony/Memorial/Osborne

West End
bounded on the north by the CPR mainline, on the east by Isabel/Balmoral/Colony/Memorial/Osborne, on the south by the Assiniboine River and on the west by Keewatin/Notre Dame/St. James

North End
bounded on the north by Carruthers/Smithfield, on the east by the Red River, on the south by the CPR mainline and on the west by Keewatin St.

River Heights
bounded on the north by the Assiniboine River, on the east by the Red River, on the south by Parker/Hurst/Wilkes and on the west by Edgeland/Morpeth

Elmwood
bounded on the north by Harbison/Nottingham, on the east by Panet Rd, on the south by Misson St. and on the west by the Red River

[LilZebra]

This is my kind of thread.


TY "balletomane" for starting this thread.

[bomberjet]

Those population declines are a killer..