CHICAGO | General Discussions

[moorhosj1]

It just feels a little disingenuous to complain about both the cost of housing these migrants and the lack of housing/jobs available, as those two things work against eachother.

We only have to house them because they can’t work and find housing. Once they can work, we don’t have to house them. The housing and jobs will likely happen in intervals over years, not all at once.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

It just feels a little disingenuous to complain about both the cost of housing these migrants and the lack of housing/jobs available, as those two things work against eachother.

We only have to house them because they can’t work and find housing. Once they can work, we don’t have to house them. The housing and jobs will likely happen in intervals over years, not all at once.

If they were allowed to work they could contribute to building their own housing.

I actually see the migrants as a huge opportunity - a gift for the city. Now we just need to fix our idiot policies that are getting in the way of actually capitalizing on this opportunity. That is as much a federal policy issue as a local policy issue... but both right now are not where they need to be. There is no bold plan from anyone. Instead of spending this taxpayer money to help the needy get on their feet and support themselves (and by extension, support/payback the city) we are spending the money so they can do nothing indoors instead of doing nothing outdoors.

I'd like to see more from Pritzker on this.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

If they were allowed to work they could contribute to building their own housing.

I actually see the migrants as a huge opportunity - a gift for the city. Now we just need to fix our idiot policies that are getting in the way of actually capitalizing on this opportunity. That is as much a federal policy issue as a local policy issue... but both right now are not where they need to be. There is no bold plan from anyone. Instead of spending this taxpayer money to help the needy get on their feet and support themselves (and by extension, support/payback the city) we are spending the money so they can do nothing indoors instead of doing nothing outdoors.

I'd like to see more from Pritzker on this.

Pritzker claimed yesterday they've been offering the city to open up shelters and the city hasn't taken them up on it. Pritzker criticized the "tent city" approach and said they'd already told the city they have unused/vacant buildings they could use instead.

[Klippenstein]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Pritzker claimed yesterday they've been offering the city to open up shelters and the city hasn't taken them up on it. Pritzker criticized the "tent city" approach and said they'd already told the city they have unused/vacant buildings they could use instead.

I hope they clear up whatever miscommunications they were having. My understanding is that the city went ahead with the tents because that state already had a contract in place. The finger pointing needs to stop. I’m hoping they are figuring this out behind the scenes since there was so much push back around the tents.

[ChiMIchael]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

If they were allowed to work they could contribute to building their own housing.

I actually see the migrants as a huge opportunity - a gift for the city. Now we just need to fix our idiot policies that are getting in the way of actually capitalizing on this opportunity. That is as much a federal policy issue as a local policy issue... but both right now are not where they need to be. There is no bold plan from anyone. Instead of spending this taxpayer money to help the needy get on their feet and support themselves (and by extension, support/payback the city) we are spending the money so they can do nothing indoors instead of doing nothing outdoors.

I'd like to see more from Pritzker on this.

But the complaint is there is a lot of left behind communities in the city the need attention. There's a perception that they are getting more support than the city citizens.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by ChiMIchael

But the complaint is there is a lot of left behind communities in the city the need attention. There's a perception that they are getting more support than the city citizens.

Sure, but then you consider almost all people 16+ in those communities can legally work. These migrants can't legally work. I get where people are coming from but perhaps they don't know they can't legally work. So where's the money going to come from for them to even feed themselves if they can't legally work? The city is and everyone is put in a tough place. Before there were private organizations who dealt with this, and they still do, but there's way too many migrants now for those organizations to be able to help.

[ChiMIchael]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Sure, but then you consider almost all people 16+ in those communities can legally work. These migrants can't legally work. I get where people are coming from but perhaps they don't know they can't legally work. So where's the money going to come from for them to even feed themselves if they can't legally work? The city is and everyone is put in a tough place. Before there were private organizations who dealt with this, and they still do, but there's way too many migrants now for those organizations to be able to help.

Let's be clear: I don't have a problem with anything you're saying. These are the complaints I keep hearing at work.

I understand what you're saying, but the response would be "If we can't support them, they should go back where they come from." or at best "they should be in the tent cities with the rest of the homeless." For Americans on the lower part of the social and economic latter, things have to be perfect for them for immigration to be an option. From what I've seen, most of migrants seem the be glad to work. Unfortunately, the goalpost is going to move to the jobs being "taken."

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by ChiMIchael

Let's be clear: I don't have a problem with anything you're saying. These are the complaints I keep hearing at work.

I understand what you're saying, but the response would be "If we can't support them, they should go back where they come from." or at best "they should be in the tent cities with the rest of the homeless." For Americans on the lower part of the social and economic latter, things have to be perfect for them for immigration to be an option. From what I've seen, most of migrants seem the be glad to work. Unfortunately, the goalpost is going to move to the jobs being "taken."

Yeah, I mean I get it. We also live in a capitalist (for the most part) society. It might be a little harsh what I'm about to say... but if someone's job is getting stolen by a migrant who knows barely any English and they'd get paid the same as the "alternative" American person for the same job....the American who's here may want to up their game a bit if fair hiring practices are being used.

[marothisu]

Speaking of migration, I looked at city propers and how many people there, estimated, were in another state or country a year prior. Chicago has had a major uptick from previous and contrary to what you may think, a lot of it is domestic in migration, not international in migration. My household participated in the ACS last year and the due date was May or June (forgot which one). The uptick in refugees was just starting when this was due so it's not really represented much like it might be when the next ACS is released next year. Here's the top 20 by city proper 2022 vs 2021. This is not metro area:

1. NYC: +52,960 people
2. Chicago: +38,001
3. Houston: +25,836
4. Los Angeles: +23,004
5. Phoenix: +15,257
6. DC: +11,981
7. Tucson: +11,534
8. San Jose: +11,338
9. San Francisco: +11,098
10. Indianapolis: +9920
11. Memphis: +8804
12. Minneapolis: +8802
13. Charlotte: +7229
14. Tuscaloosa, AL: +7175
15. San Diego: +7167
16. Boston: +7156
17. Seattle: +6966
18. Irving, TX: +6734
19. Oklahoma City: +6677
20. Jacksonville: +6467

Here's the top 5 cities per year from 2012 to 2022



Chicago, NYC, and Phoenix were at highs in 2022 for this. Chicago, however, was over 31% more than the next highest year in this range while the other 2 were between 3.2 and 3.4% higher than the next highest. The domestic migration for Chicago was over +30,000 with international being around +7000. The international in migration had dropped to 16,000 in 2019 from usually over 20,000 before that. The height was in 2015 with an estimated over 25,000 moving to Chicago who lived abroad a year before. In 2022 it went back up to just under 25,000.

[twister244]

Speaking of upticks in numbers, do we have an idea of how foot traffic is in downtown compared to pre-Covid levels? I went to a comedy special at the Chicago Theater and State Street was packed on Friday evening. I don't go to the loop on a Friday/Saturday evening often but I was damn pleasantly surprised to see the amount of people out and about around 7 PM.

[ChiMIchael]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Yeah, I mean I get it. We also live in a capitalist (for the most part) society. It might be a little harsh what I'm about to say... but if someone's job is getting stolen by a migrant who knows barely any English and they'd get paid the same as the "alternative" American person for the same job....the American who's here may want to up their game a bit if fair hiring practices are being used.

My point was that these jobs aren't 'yours' if they can be 'taken' from you. You can only be the best as possible at your job. But other issues are that the migrants (unintentionally) undermine wage growth and multi-lingual requirements.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by ChiMIchael

My point was that these jobs aren't 'yours' if they can be 'taken' from you. You can only be the best as possible at your job. But other issues are that the migrants (unintentionally) undermine wage growth and multi-lingual requirements.

I completely agree with your first 2 sentences. I mentioned fair hiring and wage equality because of this. There may be employers who will take the cheaper labor (of course - again it's capitalism). But that's also why things like minimum wage IMO can be important to establish.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by twister244

Speaking of upticks in numbers, do we have an idea of how foot traffic is in downtown compared to pre-Covid levels? I went to a comedy special at the Chicago Theater and State Street was packed on Friday evening. I don't go to the loop on a Friday/Saturday evening often but I was damn pleasantly surprised to see the amount of people out and about around 7 PM.

I'm not surprised. I'm in the Loop for work 3 days a week and in various parts it has been pretty busy, even in non-tourist months. Q1 2023 foot traffic estimate was 120% more than Q1 2021 (i.e. double plus 20% on top). They didn't start tracking this until mid 2020 unfortunately.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Speaking of migration, I looked at city propers and how many people there, estimated, were in another state or country a year prior. Chicago has had a major uptick from previous and contrary to what you may think, a lot of it is domestic in migration, not international in migration. My household participated in the ACS last year and the due date was May or June (forgot which one). The uptick in refugees was just starting when this was due so it's not really represented much like it might be when the next ACS is released next year. Here's the top 20 by city proper 2022 vs 2021. This is not metro area:

1. NYC: +52,960 people
2. Chicago: +38,001
3. Houston: +25,836
4. Los Angeles: +23,004
5. Phoenix: +15,257
6. DC: +11,981
...

Here's the top 5 cities per year from 2012 to 2022

I'm confused by this chart. It looks like Chicago added 100k+ people in 2022, where your Top 20 numbers say 38k. Is the chart "total migration" and the Top 20 "net migration"?

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

I'm confused by this chart. It looks like Chicago added 100k+ people in 2022, where your Top 20 numbers say 38k. Is the chart "total migration" and the Top 20 "net migration"?

The data is change from 2021 to 2022 as it says. The graph is overall numbers. And it is inflow from other states or another country - it is not net. I think you'll be able to eyeball a +38,000 from 2021 to 2022 in the graph now.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by marothisu

The data is change from 2021 to 2022 as it says. The graph is overall numbers. And it is inflow from other states or another country - it is not net. I think you'll be able to eyeball a +38,000 from 2021 to 2022 in the graph now.

Ah, so it is saying 38k more people moved here in 2022 than moved here in 2021 and the total was over 100k. That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

Ah, so it is saying 38k more people moved here in 2022 than moved here in 2021 and the total was over 100k. That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Right. But this is specifically people who moved to Chicago who were living in another state or country a year prior. That Chicago number is 31% above the next highest number from 2012 to 2022 too. The other places that were at highs in 2022 were only 3% above the next highest.

I can't tell whether it was legitimately an uptick or whether it is a partial correction in terms of bad estimations in previous years. The outflow to out of state is similar to other years and actually below some others in the mid 2010s. The ACS is a weird animal and I think as galleyfox has shown, there could be some contradictions from one table to another in terms of what overall population could be. I think some of the trends hold up though no matter what from what I've seen.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by marothisu

"tent city" approach

Johnsonvilles... They're called Johnsonvilles.

[Tom In Chicago]

^Thank you. . .

. . .

[SIGSEGV]

anyone else hear some jets? are they practicing for a flyover at the Bears game or something? The Bears need all the help they can get on offense and defense...