Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[yellowghost]

How does one become a "city planner" anyway ? It would appear that this occupation requires no imagination or ingenuity or possibly little to no intelligence at all.

[1ajs]

u of m u of w have programs in it

[CoryB]

A city planner can propose the best, most well designed plans however when council tells them they have one tenth the budget and make it work comprises get made. That is largely how we have the mess we do.

[Riverman]

Should the planner not know the budget before starting the plan?

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by yellowghost

How does one become a "city planner" anyway ? It would appear that this occupation requires no imagination or ingenuity or possibly little to no intelligence at all.

Originally Posted by CoryB

A city planner can propose the best, most well designed plans however when council tells them they have one tenth the budget and make it work comprises get made. That is largely how we have the mess we do.

While I have little love for city planning, I think it's a bit of a sudo-science, I don't think it's them, or it's the councillors, that are doing much or any of the damage.

It's strictly when the traffic engineers get their hands on the plan does the shit hit the fan.

[bomberjet]

The planner should not be basing their decisions solely on cost. They should be planning what is best for the City. Cost should be a factor in it, but not the be all, end all.

Traffic engineers know exactly what needs to be done to move vehicles. Traffic engineers are there to move vehicles, that is all. Budget is the issue. There is so much that goes on internally, the public never here's of it. Specifically on Lag. I would think the City has a long term ultimate plan for Lag (and everywhere is Winnipeg), maybe they are factoring that into the decision to not build an interchange at Dugald. I would hope. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. But I'll be voicing my concerns again at the next open house for that project, that I can guarantee.

No doubt there are major issues within the City, in terms of morale and what's the word I'm looking for... senior management have things set a certain way in their mind, shall we say. I think we all know that Winnipeg has major issues with money. In that we don't have the money needed to bring infrastructure to the level we want it to be at. We being the City.

[cheswick]

Does anyone know of any updated info on replacing the Louise Bridge? I remember maybe 5 or 6 years ago they were talking of replacing it in 2015 or 2016 following the Disrali work. So I assume it's been pushed back some. Will be in conjunction with an east rapid transit route?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Does anyone know of any updated info on replacing the Louise Bridge? I remember maybe 5 or 6 years ago they were talking of replacing it in 2015 or 2016 following the Disrali work. So I assume it's been pushed back some. Will be in conjunction with an east rapid transit route?

If the feasibility study isn't already out, it should be shortly. There wont likely be any construction until the end of the decade......unless Bowman really pushes the issue and unearths a pot of gold.

[bomberjet]

Yeah, it's not out yet. It's on the 2020 ish timeline, like Biff said. The eastern BRT and new Louise bridge are to be looked at in conjunction. Or at least keeping each other in mind. There are two proposed routes for the eastern transitway.

The first is on the "original" alignment, paralleling CN main track from Union Station north/east across the Red, through St. B, into Elmwood/Transcona. The property for this one is mostly reserved from downtown through St. B. I'll see if I can dig up the old drawings that show this.

The second route option is through Pointe Douglas. The only real benefit to this route, IMO, is the opportunity for a dual road/transit Louise bridge crossing the Red. This would connect with Archibald, rather than with the end of Nairn. I could see the old bridge being used as a ped bridge of some sort.

The eastern transitway route study was supposed to commence in 2014. Or at least there was funding allocated, $800k IIRC, for it. So seems they will both be getting going in the near future. Best route I think is still through St. B. It provides the best connectivity into Union Station and wouldn't require anything in the way of major demo's or neighbourhood reconfig. The only building that would likely be lost is the candy factory just northwest of the track downtown.

Saying all that, depending on where the transitway is routed will influence the decision on the Louise bridge. To either keep it on the current alignment, or move it to the Archibald alignment at the east end of Pointe Douglas. This is where the provincial park is proposed.

[bomberjet]

Also Cheswick, Stonewall is a great town to live in! People like the small town life.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...urce=d-tiles-3

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The second route option is through Pointe Douglas. The only real benefit to this route, IMO, is the opportunity for a dual road/transit Louise bridge crossing the Red. This would connect with Archibald, rather than with the end of Nairn. I could see the old bridge being used as a ped bridge of some sort.

I figure it would be interesting (depending on how South Point Douglas is planned) if Waterfront Drive continued around and ended (with a roundabout/"dead end") at the current Louise Bridge where it would at that point become pedestrian/cycle only.

[bomberjet]

The more I think about this, the more interesting it gets. Does the new Louise bridge go north or south of the CP line? Makes more sense and is less disruptive to business if it goes on south side. Bridge would be shorter. Also not really sure how the transitway would get through to here from Union Station, if it even can. And that IMO is a huge plus with the St. B route. You can get that continuous route into Union quite easily.

On mcphish's route, not sure how that would get through and connect with the other transitways now that I really look at it closely. Would need to take down some old buildings, which is no good... That one might work better with Pointa Douglas route.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

So you're talking just at the intersections? I'm not sure what else could be done except for overpasses.

There's also a pedestrian overpass of Kenaston at Lockston, which is a good thing. For the amount of cash that'll be spent on this project and the number of houses to be demolished (occupied or not), disappointing there aren't any overpasses. Of course we all know why. Just saying.. Maybe this discussion is better suited for the roads & infrastructure thread.

The problem I have with the design is they are consistent, smooth slip-lanes that make it easier for cars to turn at speed. If you look at the design (link, 3 MB) at Corydon or Grant they all look the exact same -- R50 going in, R25 at the apex, R50 (widening) going out. This is a race track geometry. If we wanted to make it safe for pedestrians we wouldn't have the curve widen as your go out of the turn. This is especially bad when you look at it with speeds that a cyclist would be moving at.

As for what they could do, this image is courtesy of ITE:


If you look at the one on the right, not only does the car have a better sightline to pedestrians, but the turn also isn't smooth and widening at the exit, so they actually have to slow down a bit.

EDIT: Oh, and I agree, the pedestrian overpass is a fantastic addition.

[biguc]

But engineers designed those corners. Both configurations, but the one that exists in Winnipeg was, so it's the best thing imaginable.

[steveosnyder]

Found something interesting while reading the City webpage... Apparently the Community Trends report for 2014 showed a 50% increase in the average AM peak travel time from the perimeter to downtown along Henderson from 2012 to 2013.

This would mean that the opening of the new Disraeli Bridge coincided with a 50% drop in travel efficiency... I'm not saying that correlation == causation, but that's a little suspect.

http://winnipeg.ca/cao/pdfs/Communit...ortVolume1.pdf

EDIT: I should also add, it says 17.5 minutes from the perimeter along St. Mary's Road to downtown, so I don't know if I agree with their methodology.

[bomberjet]

Interesting, I'll have to read that.

On your point about the right turns and pedestrians. I'll agree with you there. The second one will tend to force people to hover on the brake more. Where as the first one people will brake, but then can get on the gas quicker. Potentially causing a collision.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Interesting, I'll have to read that.

On your point about the right turns and pedestrians. I'll agree with you there. The second one will tend to force people to hover on the brake more. Where as the first one people will brake, but then can get on the gas quicker. Potentially causing a collision.

It was just a little chart on like page 40 or so. Not some report, and it doesn't even go over methodology... Perhaps I'll put in a FIPPA request for the actual report that shows these times.

[cllew]

Looks like Main St travel time went up as well.

[Riverman]

It has nothing to do with the new bridges, it has to do with more people moving outside the city.

A lot of people want to live in a field for some reason.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Riverman

It has nothing to do with the new bridges, it has to do with more people moving outside the city.

A lot of people want to live in a field for some reason.

The appeal of large grass yard with nothing around is lost on me to.