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  #7341  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
If SLC got both Pantages and Kensington, in addition to 95 State, Liberty Sky, and the Hyatt Regency, imo our skyline would be better-looking than both Phoenix and Portland (in their current states), which are much larger cities.

Of course, with the mountains that is already true. Our mountains are unbeatable.
Phoenix, yeah, Portland, nah.

Also, it would be better than San Antonio. San Antonio struggles with it's skyline for a metro it's size
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  #7342  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 5:47 PM
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  #7343  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 7:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wrendog View Post
Phoenix, yeah, Portland, nah.

Also, it would be better than San Antonio. San Antonio struggles with it's skyline for a metro it's size
I do think we are getting a better skyline, but I'm not sure if it would be better than Phoenix & Portland. Have you guys checked out Phoenix's development page lately? They've got a lot of new tall and cool towers proposed and under construction, including a 500 footer. I think our skyline will be better than San Antonio's and Sacramento's, and coming in close or better than cities of similar size or larger.
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  #7344  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
I do think we are getting a better skyline, but I'm not sure if it would be better than Phoenix & Portland. Have you guys checked out Phoenix's development page lately? They've got a lot of new tall and cool towers proposed and under construction, including a 500 footer. I think our skyline will be better than San Antonio's and Sacramento's, and coming in close or better than cities of similar size or larger.
I think SLC is already better than Sacramento. Sacramento blows.

San Antonio has 3 towers taller than SLC's tallest, but SLC has more over 300 and 200. San Antonio feels more dense, though, probably due to much more narrow streets downtown.
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  #7345  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 8:49 PM
taboubak taboubak is offline
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Originally Posted by wrendog View Post
I think SLC is already better than Sacramento. Sacramento blows.

San Antonio has 3 towers taller than SLC's tallest, but SLC has more over 300 and 200. San Antonio feels more dense, though, probably due to much more narrow streets downtown.
San Antonio has taller towers, but I think the Wastach range in the background gives SLC a big nod when comparing its skyline to other cities. With our backdrop we really do have a potential with all the proposed developments to have one of the countries most picturesque skylines, even if the buildings are quite as tall as other cities.
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  #7346  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
I do think we are getting a better skyline, but I'm not sure if it would be better than Phoenix & Portland. Have you guys checked out Phoenix's development page lately? They've got a lot of new tall and cool towers proposed and under construction, including a 500 footer. I think our skyline will be better than San Antonio's and Sacramento's, and coming in close or better than cities of similar size or larger.
Downtown SLC is way, way better than Phoenix. It is not close. Their one advantage is two arenas downtown. It’s still a shame that the MLS stadium was built in Sandy.
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  #7347  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 9:35 PM
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Definitely more attractive than Phoenix, both from a street engagement perspective and especially, as seen from the Northwest panorama. I watched a recent drone flyover and there is a stark difference. Downtown Salt Lake is on a much more attractive trajectory.
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  #7348  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 11:05 PM
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Phoenix' problem is that their skyline stretches two-miles between downtown and midtown. So, the gap between the two is pretty darn evident. I think their skyline would be significantly more dense than Salt Lake's if their downtown/midtown covered the same amount of space as Salt Lake's.

Portland's skyline - well, I don't see Salt Lake passing it anytime soon:



The problem with Salt Lake's skyline, and something that will continue with most these proposals, is that it's:

1) Boxy as fuck - even Tower 8 is basically a box when you get down to it.

2) Too similar of heights has created a ceiling effect. Salt Lake's tallest is 422 feet. When Tower 8 is complete, six other towers will be fewer than 100 feet smaller that the Wells Fargo Center. That's not a horrible thing if the skyline had a signature tower - which it does not. San Diego is a skyline that is very capped at a specific height and it runs circles around Salt Lake due solely to its diversity of towers (going back to point 1):



3) The layout sucks. Some of this is due to the wide blocks, which allows for significant gaps in the skyline (especially when you couple it with the city code about mid-block high-rises) but some of it is also due to the fact Salt Lake's tallest almost universally have been built on just two streets: State Street and Main Street. That means the skyline doesn't spread out over the downtown area like many other cities.

This is extremely evident in aerials of the city:



Compare that to Portland:



There's much more density and the skyline is spread out over a sizable amount of streets (their small blocks help).

But one thing I think has hindered Salt Lake, and hopefully it'll change as the skyline begins moving off of Main & State, is just the overall lack of density once you get off those two main streets.

It's almost non-existent, especially on the western area of town. Sure, there will be projects (like by the Viv) that will help change this (along with the convention hotel) but there has to be more than just these four-to-five story residential buildings and hotels.

Currently, and with those three under construction towers, SLC has 17 towers between 200 and 300 feet (not counting the Capitol, but counting the City-County Building + the LDS Temple) downtown. Portland has 30+, and that's on top of their three 500+ footers and other two buildings that rival Salt Lake's tallest (or exceed): Park Avenue West, which is 460 feet and PacWest Center, which is 418 feet. In fact, Portland has 18 built, or currently under construction, buildings of 300+ feet. Salt Lake has 14.

So, we're still lagging...but we can make up some significant ground in the next decade.

My hope is that we get a proposal for a 400 footer south of 400 South, or at least west of Main Street.
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  #7349  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 11:56 PM
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Okay, maybe I'll concede on Portland. We have a long way to go in terms of infill development, and our block sizes do us few favors. That said, I do think SLC will stand out for a city of its size with a skyline like this, at least by American standards:


(Credit: Orlando)
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  #7350  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2020, 12:55 AM
locolife locolife is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
I do think we are getting a better skyline, but I'm not sure if it would be better than Phoenix & Portland. Have you guys checked out Phoenix's development page lately? They've got a lot of new tall and cool towers proposed and under construction, including a 500 footer. I think our skyline will be better than San Antonio's and Sacramento's, and coming in close or better than cities of similar size or larger.
Yeah, downtown Phoenix has been on a nice run in the last 10-15 years with a big boom in the last 2-3 years. There are at least 10 cranes up now with another 7 projects coming soon. In 2002 I'd say Salt Lake probably felt comparable or larger to me but not anymore, Phoenix has noticeably surpassed SLC imo, I visit both cities regularly. By comparison Phoenix has more sports, a much larger convention center, a large university presence with 12,000 ASU students now there, and I don't see a comparable area to Roosevelt Row in downtown Salt Lake.

Here are the most accurate numbers I could find for buildings over 200':
SLC: Currently 20 existing buildings over 200', + 3 under construction?
Portland: 53 existing buildings over 200', not sure how many under construction there...
Phoenix: 45 existing buildings over 200', + 9 under construction (Kenect, Aspire, The Ryan, Link Phase 2, X Phoenix, Adeline, Derby, ASU residence tower, Palm Court, AC Marriott (a bit under 200').
Tempe: 11 existing buildings or under construction over 200'.

Side by Side future views:

Credit to ChaseM

Credit Orlando

A few recent construction pictures courtesy of the Skyscraper Phoenix Compilation page:

Credit Obadno

Credit Obadno

Credit Obadno

Downtown Tempe is also a nicely developing urban area in the metro:

Credit CB1

Last edited by locolife; Jun 5, 2020 at 1:56 AM.
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  #7351  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2020, 2:33 AM
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Phoenix MSA is also 3x larger than the Salt Lake MSA, so it's kind of interesting that this comparison can even be made. Phoenix and San Antonio are exhibits A and B of the effects of 20th century automobile-centric city growth and planning.
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  #7352  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2020, 3:23 AM
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I think Salt Lake's skyline is growing nicely overall. We do finally have taller projects happening off of State Street and Main Street.

I think originally, many people didn't think that we would see Block 67 actually happen. We now know that it is moving forward. I am hopeful that Phase 2 also starts as projected once the Post Office lease expires.

Phase 2, while not hitting 400', will hit 375'. It will also include another around 275'.

We may also see taller projects start springing up around the city once the City has updating its zoning heights. This was discussed during the Tuesday City Council work session. The City is looking at adding planners for the current workload and may also look at outsourcing the zoning height study to a 3rd Party to ensure that the current planners are able to focus on the current projects.

The goal of the study is to evaluate and adjust the zoning heights throughout the City that came out of the discussions regarding the Central Station district.

I do tend to go with the belief that development spurs development. As Main Street has filled in, we have seen State Street become a focus. We are now seeing this spread to West Temple and 2nd West. As the availability of land becomes more scarce along the current focus areas, we will see the areas expand.

Depending on how the zoning heights are adjusted, we may see some taller projects come to light faster, especially around the Central Station.
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  #7353  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2020, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by scottharding View Post
There were construction crews there today, so it seems it hasn't paused.

There are a couple of projects right now that seem to be moving at a snails pace, and I wonder if construction crews are pretty thin because of the demand. And I expect there are Covid restrictions as well. I'm just glad they're progressing at all, given the state of things.
Regarding the Hardison. The developer has released the General Contractor and is trying to act in that role to complete the project. Needless to say the owner doesn't have the same pull in the subcontractor world as one of the largest GC's in Utah does.

Last edited by millhouse; Jun 5, 2020 at 5:53 PM.
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  #7354  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2020, 1:38 AM
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Went for groceries at Harmon's and got a good look at the construction. Center column is going up fast and the rest of the building seems to be at ground level now. Should be seeing lots of steel here very soon!
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  #7355  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2020, 2:54 AM
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Checkout the 500 footer that Phoenix is getting.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...&postcount=565

This post shows all of the proposed highrises are under some sort of design or construction in downtown Phoenix:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...&postcount=545
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  #7356  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2020, 3:18 AM
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Ok, yeah, PHX is doing well. SLC won't catch up to them any time soon.
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  #7357  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2020, 5:28 AM
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Phoenix Might have a lot going on, but they don’t have Wendell Block.
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  #7358  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2020, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wrendog View Post
Ok, yeah, PHX is doing well. SLC won't catch up to them any time soon.
Catch up how, population and sprawl?? Sure, and most won't. Then again, Salt Lake City's development and growth scene has been doing well, extremely well in fact. Hardly a month goes by when The Wasatch Front is not at the top 5 or 10 of multiple national lists.

As far as 200 plus footers by number Salt Lake has some catching up to do, even with some cities that don't have nearly the CSA population. However, having the most 200-plus footers does not an attractive CBD or skyline make. Some of those skylines are quite the hot mess, not to mention how sterile a lot of their street engagement feels. I think Salt Lake's historic and ever-expanding contemporary development portfolio is diverse in style and typically very attractive, albeit needing some height variations added in the tower category. Many of downtown Salt Lake's street engagements are some of the most attractive in the country, particularly when looking at many in the Western States.

I think we can all agree that Salt Lake's CBD is finally showing a lot of excellent progress, and the trajectory for additional high-rises, new tallest, and more density is looking very good. In addition, I don't need to remind everyone that the Wasatch Front's transportation infrastructure progress is far ahead of many metros that are of similar or larger in size. Many metros projections for fifteen plus years out don't even match the Wasatch Fronts current status let alone where it will be in 10 to fifteen years. This is particularly true when it comes to light and heavy rail.

There's one bold reality and that is that there's not a lot of cities out there that will ever be able to compete with Salt Lake's beautiful topographical setting. The number of stunning view sites in and around metro Salt Lake is astounding. Also, I think that the multi-use development trajectory of Salt Lake's Downtown street and mid-block aesthetic continues to be much more interesting and attractive than many.

Admittedly, some of the major Southwestern Cities I have frequented are seriously challenged as far as beautiful monumental contemporary and or historic architectural design. Historically speaking that will never change for most of these sprawl centers. Perhaps on a broad scale of increasing numbers, the contemporary designs of some of these cities will hold more promise architecturally. Though I have to wonder with many of their recent major civic developments like their CCHs, Main Libraries, Performance Halls etc. Some don't even hold a candle to Salt Lake's Eccles, CCC, Main Library, LDS Conference Center and much more.

Last edited by delts145; Jun 6, 2020 at 4:15 PM.
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  #7359  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2020, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
Checkout the 500 footer that Phoenix is getting.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...&postcount=565

This post shows all of the proposed highrises are under some sort of design or construction in downtown Phoenix:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...&postcount=545
I bet a whole lot of those yellow buildings never actually get built. It's rough times ahead economically. I'm sure half of them are already dead in the water.
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  #7360  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2020, 6:59 PM
locolife locolife is offline
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I bet a whole lot of those yellow buildings never actually get built. It's rough times ahead economically. I'm sure half of them are already dead in the water.
Some may get scrapped but today there are 13 cranes are up in downtown Phoenix, which represent a lot of what you see in that graphic. Another 9 are in the planning stages but so far looking pretty good, as we saw permits go in last week for Palm Court at AZ center and Astra (500'er appears to be proceeding as well). Fingers crossed on the economy, saw some great jobs news lat week!
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