Western Expresso

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Absolutely. There is no other way. Prices would skyrocket, as we know with liquor.

That is untrue. Black market pot already has a large amount of risk built in to the price. This will be replaced by taxes. If it goes higher than black market prices, the legal market will fail. I doubt our government will drop the ball with that and will be one of their priorities in coming up with a plan. Colorado will be a good starting point for us.

[bomberjet]

Well I guess it depends on what places you look. From what i can see in Colorado, prices range from close to what we pay here on the "black market", to double the amount or more.

https://www.coloradopotguide.com/col...r-2015-update/

The various groups who currently sell will continue to do so. Could there be a price war between said groups and the government? That would be interesting. Anything coming out of the States on such topics?

[UPP]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

You have yet to list these "dangerous side effects". What are they?



What would the point of legalizing it be if they don't allow any adult to buy it? I guarantee the model Canada takes will be similar to Colorado's.

Well since you asked, how about increased heart rate, lower blood pressure, increased bleeding, altered blood sugar levels.

That took literally 10 seconds to find from multiple web sites. I'm sure you could have found it yourself.

[Dan0myte]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

You have yet to list these "dangerous side effects". What are they?

Specifically for adolescents.

http://www.pnas.org/content/109/40/E2657.abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC135493/

Use of marijuana under the age of 18 results in neuropsychological decline broadly across all domains of functioning, cognitive problems and a 6x higher probability of developing schizophrenia later in life. Also the cessation of cannabis use did not fully restore neuropsychological functioning, meaning it's permanently damaging.

But these side effects are covered by putting age restrictions on cannabis - similar to cigarettes and alcohol. I know that's not going to stop kids from smoking weed but keeping it illegal for that age group will at least be a deterrent.

[windypeg]

As far as pricing goes I think pot consumers will be more than willing to pay a markup in order to have something that is readily and conveniently available with no risk involved in the purchase.

Right now they have to spend several days texting their sketchbag dealer, once you get ahold of him there's no guarantee he's got any product because of his sketchy illegal supply chain, once he finally does have something to sell you you have to play texting tag again to arrange a meet-up that works for his schedule not yours, when you finally buy it you have no idea what it is or where it came from or if you got ripped off, and all the while you're doing something illegal which could carry consequences if caught.

Compare that to going to a dispensary at your own convenience, whenever you want, seeing product on the shelf and even information on the strain and source, being able to buy it right then and there through legal channels and be on your way. I think most people would pay extra for that level of service and this is already evident in other products. You can buy counterfeit smokes for way, way cheaper but you have to have a connection and go out and find them. So most people suck it up and pay more at the closest convenience store because it's just easier.

[djforsberg]

Thanks guys, but I am already well educated in the side effects of marijuana. I was only asking UPP to see if he actually knew. Seeing as how he had to Google it, it only reaffirms my statement that he is ignorant and living in the stereotypes of the past. Increased bleeding? LOL. I have smoked weed on a weekly basis for a decade (and almost daily in recent years) and have not had any of these "dangerous" side effects you have listed. With eating good food and exercising regularly, I'm actually quite healthy physically according to my doctor. Try again UPP and maybe with some links to some peer reviewed scientific studies.

BTW, adolescent use of marijuana has gone down or stayed the same in US States with legal marijuana compared to more restrictive states so there isn't much point focusing on the side effects on adolescents in this context as we are talking about legalization for adults. Reference 1. Reference 2

[djforsberg]

I think focusing on the pricing argument is a little silly too. There's no way legalization works unless it can overtake the black market. windypeg is right. Most people will gladly spend the same or slightly higher for the convenience. And to bomberjet, who claims the same groups who sell now will continue to sell when its legal, you are right about it if you are implying they will sell it legally. If you think they will still sell it on the black market, I'm wondering where you get that idea from. How many gangs are still selling kegs of beer and moonshine in back alleys? Sure tobacco products still finds their way on the black market but cannabis is in no way comparable to tobacco as much as it is to liquor and the government isn't trying to get people to quit consuming pot as they are with cigarettes.

[bomberjet]

There's no way any of the gangs that are into dope, just go cold turkey on selling it because its legal.

Sorry, I gotta go. Maybe I can chime in again later.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There's no way any of the gangs that are into dope, just go cold turkey on selling it because its legal.

Sorry, I gotta go. Maybe I can chime in again later.

Do they really have a choice? Legal businesses die when there is no longer demand for their products. Why isn't the same true for the black market? They still have plenty of other business ventures to invest in but pot is their bread and butter and to say it won't have an impact on them is nonsensical.

[UPP]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

Thanks guys, but I am already well educated in the side effects of marijuana. I was only asking UPP to see if he actually knew. Seeing as how he had to Google it, it only reaffirms my statement that he is ignorant and living in the stereotypes of the past. Increased bleeding? LOL. I have smoked weed on a weekly basis for a decade (and almost daily in recent years) and have not had any of these "dangerous" side effects you have listed. With eating good food and exercising regularly, I'm actually quite healthy physically according to my doctor. Try again UPP and maybe with some links to some peer reviewed scientific studies.

BTW, adolescent use of marijuana has gone down or stayed the same in US States with legal marijuana compared to more restrictive states so there isn't much point focusing on the side effects on adolescents in this context as we are talking about legalization for adults. Reference 1. Reference 2

I didn't have to google a damn thing, I've sat through probably 50 presentations by Rand Teed I could probably give the presentations myself. I figured you'd have a smart ass remark for that so I quickly checked a few sites on my phone for you. Your response is completely predictable. You asked for a response by me, I gave you one, then you go on to personally attack me and 'refute' what I searched by saying you smoke week all the time and are in great health.

Stereotypes of the past? You realize you're perpetuating the stereotypes.

Links to peer-reviewed scientific studies? Give your head a shake. Like I said, look it up yourself.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by UPP

I didn't have to google a damn thing, I've sat through probably 50 presentations by Rand Teed I could probably give the presentations myself. I figured you'd have a smart ass remark for that so I quickly checked a few sites on my phone for you. Your response is completely predictable. You asked for a response by me, I gave you one, then you go on to personally attack me and 'refute' what I searched by saying you smoke week all the time and are in great health.

Stereotypes of the past? You realize you're perpetuating the stereotypes.

Links to peer-reviewed scientific studies? Give your head a shake. Like I said, look it up yourself.

I'm not the one needing to be educated, thanks. You mentioned "dangerous side effects". I have yet to learn of any of these from you or the Internet. Can you tell us how many people have died from consuming cannabis? Surely, anything with dangerous side effects will have fatalities linked to them.

[UPP]

From the US National Library of Medicine (Just because I'm feeling generous today)

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/...cle/001945.htm

How fast you feel the effects of marijuana depend on how you use it:
•If you breathe in marijuana smoke (such as from a joint or pipe), you may feel the effects within seconds to several minutes.
•If you eat foods containing the drug (such as "hash brownies,") you may feel the effects within 30 - 60 minutes.

Marijuana acts on your central nervous system. Low to moderate amounts of the drug may cause:
•Increased appetite ("the munchies")
•Feeling of joy (euphoria)
•Relaxed feeling
•Increased sensations of sight, hearing, and taste

Other effects can include:
•Feelings of panic
•Anxiety
•Excessive fear (paranoia)
•Decreased ability to perform tasks that require coordination (such as driving a car)
•Decreased interest in completing tasks
•Delirium
•Firmly held false beliefs (delusions)
•Seeing or hearing things that aren't there (hallucinations)
•Bloodshot eyes
•Increased heart rate and blood pressure
•Infections such as sinusitis, bronchitis, and asthma in heavy users
•Irritation of the airways causing narrowing or spasms
•Possibly weakening of the immune system
•Sore throat
•Trouble concentrating and paying attention, which can interfere with learning
•Trouble telling oneself from others
•Violence (may be related to marijuana that is laced with a drug called PCP)

Now, I think you're confusing me with some other type of person. For the record, never have I ever said outlaw or ban weed. I said it should be regulated and taxed because there are side effects to it, just like with any drug.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

BTW, adolescent use of marijuana has gone down or stayed the same in US States with legal marijuana compared to more restrictive states so there isn't much point focusing on the side effects on adolescents in this context as we are talking about legalization for adults. Reference 1. Reference 2

This second paragraph is what is called special pleading, or pushing the goalpost... Asking someone for side effects, then saying those ones don't count, because youth don't use drugs, or the use of their drug goes down... It's still a side effect.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by UPP

From the US National Library of Medicine (Just because I'm feeling generous today)

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/...cle/001945.htm

How fast you feel the effects of marijuana depend on how you use it:
•If you breathe in marijuana smoke (such as from a joint or pipe), you may feel the effects within seconds to several minutes.
•If you eat foods containing the drug (such as "hash brownies,") you may feel the effects within 30 - 60 minutes.

Marijuana acts on your central nervous system. Low to moderate amounts of the drug may cause:
•Increased appetite ("the munchies")
•Feeling of joy (euphoria)
•Relaxed feeling
•Increased sensations of sight, hearing, and taste

Other effects can include:
•Feelings of panic
•Anxiety
•Excessive fear (paranoia)
•Decreased ability to perform tasks that require coordination (such as driving a car)
•Decreased interest in completing tasks
•Delirium
•Firmly held false beliefs (delusions)
•Seeing or hearing things that aren't there (hallucinations)
•Bloodshot eyes
•Increased heart rate and blood pressure
•Infections such as sinusitis, bronchitis, and asthma in heavy users
•Irritation of the airways causing narrowing or spasms
•Possibly weakening of the immune system
•Sore throat
•Trouble concentrating and paying attention, which can interfere with learning
•Trouble telling oneself from others
•Violence (may be related to marijuana that is laced with a drug called PCP)

Now, I think you're confusing me with some other type of person. For the record, never have I ever said outlaw or ban weed. I said it should be regulated and taxed because there are side effects to it, just like with any drug.

I'm more looking for the dangerous side effects you claimed were preventing me from consuming while working at my desk job.

Originally Posted by UPP

In fact, there are dangerous side effects to marijuana, if there weren't then I suppose some posters here wouldn't wait until after work to toke up.

[UPP]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

I'm not the one needing to be educated, thanks. You mentioned "dangerous side effects". I have yet to learn of any of these from you or the Internet. Can you tell us how many people have died from consuming cannabis? Surely, anything with dangerous side effects will have fatalities linked to them.

You said you don't need to be educated. So I won't.

Sometimes it's just best to step away. You asked, I answered. You asked again, I answered again. I don't have time to continue to find answers for you. And you don't seem to like my answers anyways. So I think I'll be done with this and we can agree to disagree.

Interesting conversation though.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

This second paragraph is what is called special pleading, or pushing the goalpost... Asking someone for side effects, then saying those ones don't count, because youth don't use drugs, or the use of the drug goes down... It's still a side effect.

Sure it's still a side effect but the evidence shows nothing changes for adolescents with legalization. Unless of course you are for an increased prohibition of pot.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by UPP

You said you don't need to be educated. So I won't.

Sometimes it's just best to step away. You asked, I answered. You asked again, I answered again. I don't have time to continue to find answers for you. And you don't seem to like my answers anyways. So I think I'll be done with this and we can agree to disagree.

Interesting conversation though.

You still haven't listed any dangerous side effects besides losing the ability to operate heavy machinery. You made it personal so I will continue to dig.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

Sure it's still a side effect but the evidence shows nothing changes for adolescents with legalization. Unless of course you are for an increased prohibition of pot.

Free tax money to the government that won't effect me? No, I'd be very happy if it was legalized... But it still needs to be controlled, much like every other drug to some extent or another.

And can you link to a study done about no changes to use for adolescents/youth? I work in youth outreach and community development and would like to read on it.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

Free tax money to the government that won't effect me? No, I'd be very happy if it was legalized... But it still needs to be controlled, much like every other drug to some extent or another.

For sure. But I hope we take a little more progressive approach to it than how most provinces here regulate alcohol. The increasing popularity of micro-brewed beer across Canada gives me hope that we aren't only going to only allow big corporations (public or Crown) to control supply and resale.

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

And can you link to a study done about no changes to use for adolescents/youth? I work in youth outreach and community development and would like to read on it.

Certainly. They were in one of my posts that you quoted but here they are again: Reference 1. Reference 2

[SkydivePilot]

CTV News stated that Saskatchewan will receive approximately 2500 Syrian refugees: 1000ish for Regina; 1000ish for Saskatoon; 500ish for MJ & PA.

That's quite a few for SK if there are to be 25,000 total.