Floodwatch

[1ajs]

Winnipeg Free Press - PRINT EDITION
Cautionary tale in Breezy Point
Swollen river claims home; second property feared lost
By: Melissa Martin and Bartley Kives
Posted: 04/9/2011 1:00 AM

BREEZY POINT -- Under a state of emergency and suffering the first house lost in Manitoba's flood fight, residents in the RM of St. Andrews stood calm in the face of a swiftly rising Red.
But on Friday night, another residence appeared to be in danger of becoming the second house lost to the rising flood waters.

Chuck Sanderson, executive director of Manitoba EMO, said Friday the house confirmed as inundated was not diked despite the municipality offering sandbags and other equipment to all property owners in the area.
"Many of the citizens took advantage of that. This particular residence didn't have a dike around it," Sanderson said.
A dike only started being built at 11 p.m. Thursday, using water-inflated tube dikes.


more here
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...119526664.html

[1ajs]

Winnipeg Free Press - ONLINE EDITION
Unprecedented overland flooding hits rural North Dakota
By: Bartley Kives
Posted: 04/10/2011 1:21 PM


JOE BRYKSA / WINNIPEG FREE PRESS Enlarge Image

Northbound traffic on I-29 is backed up three kilometres at Harwood, N.D., just north of Fargo due to overland flooding on Sunday.

FARGO, N.D. -- North Dakota's largest city may be safe and dry this weekend, but rural Cass County is experiencing unprecedented overland flooding that has closed Interstate 29 and isolated many homes.
Flooding in Cass Country stretches 16 kilometres inland from the Red River, county administrator Bonnie Johnson said this afternoon.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spe...119565434.html

[North_Regina_Boy]

Can someone explain to me why they don't open the Assiniboine river floodway every year to create a negative flow of water from Winnipeg westward to Portage? Wouldn't this be helpful?

[jmt18325]

The Portage Diversion can't take that kind of water flow....and Lake Manitoba isn't some kind of dumping ground. The diversion isn't built that way anyway. It's built to take water from the west, and direct it north.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by North_Regina_Boy

Can someone explain to me why they don't open the Assiniboine river floodway every year to create a negative flow of water from Winnipeg westward to Portage? Wouldn't this be helpful?

Water doesn't flow uphill? The elevation of the Assiniboine River at the diversion is over 100ft higher than where it meets the Red River.

[North_Regina_Boy]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

Water doesn't flow uphill? The elevation of the Assiniboine River at the diversion is over 100ft higher than where it meets the Red River.

Yea I don't remember where I heard the information that said the flow in the Assiniboine was -1 in 1997... I assumed that meant that water wasn't being released into the Red from the Assiniboine. But yea 100ft higher at portage would make it 100% impossible for water to flow that way.... Good point, should of really thought that one through more.

Thanks... But do they open the Assiniboine river floodway each year or no?

**EDIT**

I suppose that the best way to stop water from flooding homes north of Winnipeg, at least somewhat. Would be to continue the floodway all the way to Lake Winnipeg. That way no ice jamming would occur as the floodway would be open to allow water to flow into the lake. But I understand that takes a lot of time and money.... Oh well maybe someday. Best of luck from your neighbors from the west, I am at least wishing you all the best.

[Riverman]

In 1997 all of the water from the Assiniboine was diverted into Lake Manitoba during the flood. That was only possible because the flow at that time was well within the capacity of the diversion (15,000 CFS). Not the case this year!!

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Riverman

That was only possible because the flow at that time was well within the capacity of the diversion (15,000 CFS).

A prof at UofM was on the radio the other day, and said the capacity was 40,000 cfs, the same as the Souris River puts into the Red during a flood.

[Riverman]

It is actually 708 cms which works out to about 22,000 cfs. So we're both wrong.

I was told 15,000 by the engineers working on our community flood protection. Perhaps it is not commonly used to its full capacity.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Riverman

It is actually 708 cms which works out to about 22,000 cfs. So we're both wrong.

Haha, well, at least we know the true number now. Apparently though, it's able to take the entire flow of the Souris River back out of the Assiniboine, and the dam on the river at the diversion is able to store 14,00 acre feet of water (actually not that much, compared to the Shellmouth Reservoir).

[Riverman]

Yay! No dike needed on my property or any properties in my section. Only a few houses have to be diked.

[Riverman]

At last night's flood meeting we learned that all diking operations in the City of Winnipeg have ceased as of 5 PM, 14 April. Volunteers remain on standby to build dikes next weekend should things change.

[1ajs]

Winnipeg Free Press - ONLINE EDITION
Winter storm a flood threat: province
By: Staff Writer
Posted: 04/29/2011 2:58 PM

WINNIPEG - A winter snowstorm and high winds could threaten the province's flood defences, Emergency Measures Minister Steve Ashton said today.
The Red River could see 20 to 30 millimetres of rain and Melita west of Winnipeg could see 35 to 45 mm of rain, possibly causing overland flooding.

The province has warned the community of Souix Valley to shore up its dike and has issued an advisory that people behind dikes do what they can to protect their north sides by adding more sandbags.
The storm and the already high amount of flood water in the system will delay the crests on the Red and Assiniboine Rivers from Saturday to May 4, the province's top flood fighter said.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...120981644.html

[ue]

I haven't really read this thread so if this has already been asked and answer, just point me in that direction. I've always wondered why people continue to come back to the Red River when it floods every year. Is there a specific reason? It's not like some places that are vulnerable to flooding and get a flooding every 15-30 years, there's a flood in Manitoba every year. Why not build further back and save the damages and casualties?

[Joshy]

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast

I haven't really read this thread so if this has already been asked and answer, just point me in that direction. I've always wondered why people continue to come back to the Red River when it floods every year. Is there a specific reason? It's not like some places that are vulnerable to flooding and get a flooding every 15-30 years, there's a flood in Manitoba every year. Why not build further back and save the damages and casualties?

There are floods in every province, every year, including Alberta and Saskatchewan. But, just like Manitoba, the extent of flooding varies from year to year. This year is an extreme. Next year, there may be just a trickle. People keep coming back to the Red River Valley because it's a great place to live. The land also provides some of the best soil for farming in North America. I guess you could ask why do people keep moving to hurricaine prone areas like Texas, Florida, Mexico, etc. Why do people keep moving to the West Coast since there will be an earthquake and flood that will permanently destroy the area anyways? Why would people choose to live in Alberta since it can snow there in every month of the year? People will live where they want to live, and will be
willing to put up with whatever mother nature dishes out. And, the Red River Valley is flourishing despite flooding over the years, so we are in great shape!

Oh, and which casualties are you referring to with regards to Red River flooding?

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast

I haven't really read this thread so if this has already been asked and answer, just point me in that direction. I've always wondered why people continue to come back to the Red River when it floods every year. Is there a specific reason? It's not like some places that are vulnerable to flooding and get a flooding every 15-30 years, there's a flood in Manitoba every year. Why not build further back and save the damages and casualties?

People in Italy live on volcanic plains that are almost guaranteed to be buried in ash or lava every few decades, for the same reason: volcanic ash, and flood silt, is AMAZINGLY fertile. There's a reason the Nile valley is still populated even though it floods every year (may not so much these days due to dams, etc).

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Joshy

There are floods in every province, every year, including Alberta and Saskatchewan. But, just like Manitoba, the extent of flooding varies from year to year. This year is an extreme. Next year, there may be just a trickle. People keep coming back to the Red River Valley because it's a great place to live. The land also provides some of the best soil for farming in North America. I guess you could ask why do people keep moving to hurricaine prone areas like Texas, Florida, Mexico, etc. Why do people keep moving to the West Coast since there will be an earthquake and flood that will permanently destroy the area anyways? Why would people choose to live in Alberta since it can snow there in every month of the year? People will live where they want to live, and will be
willing to put up with whatever mother nature dishes out. And, the Red River Valley is flourishing despite flooding over the years, so we are in great shape!

Oh, and which casualties are you referring to with regards to Red River flooding?

The red river valley? Not sure you understood the question he was asking. He was asking why people build homes so close to the river not why people live in the red river valley. 90%+ of Winnipeg homes are in virtually no danger of ever being flooded. I believe his question is why do people come back and build so close to the river when the houses are in danger of being flooded every year.

I dunno that they do... If a house is lost to a flood is it generally just rebuilt where it is?

[ue]

Originally Posted by Joshy

There are floods in every province, every year, including Alberta and Saskatchewan. But, just like Manitoba, the extent of flooding varies from year to year. This year is an extreme. Next year, there may be just a trickle. People keep coming back to the Red River Valley because it's a great place to live. The land also provides some of the best soil for farming in North America. I guess you could ask why do people keep moving to hurricaine prone areas like Texas, Florida, Mexico, etc. Why do people keep moving to the West Coast since there will be an earthquake and flood that will permanently destroy the area anyways? Why would people choose to live in Alberta since it can snow there in every month of the year? People will live where they want to live, and will be
willing to put up with whatever mother nature dishes out. And, the Red River Valley is flourishing despite flooding over the years, so we are in great shape!

Oh, and which casualties are you referring to with regards to Red River flooding?

I will admit I don't pay a lot of attention to the Manitoba floods, but they seem to happen close to yearly. Massive earthquakes do not come to meet Los Angeles every year, snow does not occur in August on the Prairies every year, there isn't a volcanoe every year in Italy, massive floods don't happen every year in Queensland, etc.

[drew]

Originally Posted by cheswick

I dunno that they do... If a house is lost to a flood is it generally just rebuilt where it is?

If you build a new house on a flood prone area of the province, the main floor of the house needs to be at a certain minimum elevation to ensure that it won't be flooded out, even in the worst years.

If you drive south of Winnipeg, a lot of houses south of the floodway are either built high off the ground by way of a huge mound of compacted fill, or the entire house is surrounded by a perimeter dike, again built to a minimum height.

Basically the majority of the red river flood prone areas of the province have been protected by these measures following the flood of 1997.

This year is different due to the Assiniboine river flooding at record levels. That is unusual, and exposing weaknesses in flood protection west of Winnipeg.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast

I will admit I don't pay a lot of attention to the Manitoba floods, but they seem to happen close to yearly. Massive earthquakes do not come to meet Los Angeles every year, snow does not occur in August on the Prairies every year, there isn't a volcanoe every year in Italy, massive floods don't happen every year in Queensland, etc.

California does experience large quakes every year. Los Angeles specifically? No.

Volcanoes go off in the Pacific Rim every year. Any one city specifically? No.

Hurricanes strike Florida every year. But are there 100 year old buildings all over Florida? Generally, yes.

The point? Manitoba is a HUGE place. When you hear "Manitoba floods" it's easy to imagine the entire province just gets swamped and every single house is affected, but nothing could be further from the truth. What happens is that out of the dozens of rivers and hundreds of creeks, a few flood badly every year. And a few hundred (in bad years a few thousand) people are affected. Out of a population of over one million.

Every decade or two you hear about a major flood event that affects a lot more than just a handful of homes. This year is one of them, 1997 was another, 1950 was another. But most years it's isolated to a few small, specific areas - and it's not the same area every year. It depends on rain and snowfall in that area plus its surroundings, and the climate is highly variable in that part of the country.

Really, you have to look at it like Hurricane season in the Gulf. Every single year there are hurricanes, and homes destroyed, and people displaced/hurt/killed. Yet if you go down there, you realize that in most years it's a tiny fraction of area affected. Every once in a while you get a "bad" year where much larger areas are affected and it becomes major news. But if you just casually pay attention to the news, it seems like the entire area is being devastated every year.

We often forget how big Canada is. Hell, Winnipeg proper even in a bad flood year is almost entirely unaffected. I lived there in 1997 and other than watching the news, you wouldn't really know there was a flood happening. I visited this spring and again, there are no real signs in the city itself beyond people who live immediately adjacent to the river - and even then, it's only a couple hundred homes.