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  #141  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2016, 10:55 PM
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Someone needs to make a mashup of all these aerial renderings so we can see into the future of Philadelphia...
     
     
  #142  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2016, 6:50 PM
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Speculation from Philadelphia Business Journal's Natalie Kostelni that Aramark could become the primary commercial tenant in 2400 Market.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelp...-of-phila.html

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Aramark Corp., one of Philadelphia’s leading corporate citizens, is evaluating whether it should relocate its headquarters outside of Philadelphia.

The company occupies around 350,000 square feet at a building that bears its name at 1101 Market St. in Philadelphia. The multinational food services firm also has about 50,000 square feet in the Wanamaker building.

The lease on Aramark’s world headquarters expires in 2018 and we have been carefully reviewing our options to ensure a solid plan is ready in advance,” said Chris Collom, a spokesman for the company, in a statement. “As a public company, we have a responsibility to our shareholders to completely assess all available choices. That includes remaining in Philadelphia or possibly relocating. We have been working closely with city and state officials in a number of locations and will make our final decision soon.”

Aramark Tower is a 32-story, 620,000-square-foot office building that has served as the company’s headquarters for the last three decades. The Aramark building was built in 1984. It was initially named One Reading Center before Aramark, then called ARA Services, moved its headquarters and more than 1,000 of its employees from the old Curtis Publishing Co. building at 6th and Walnut streets in 1985.

When Aramark (NYSE: ARMK) announced its move to the tower, Joseph Neubauer, then chairman and CEO, praised it as an ideal location that offered direct access to the commuter train lines. The building’s construction contributed to the revitalization of Market Street East.

The company, which provides food, facilities and uniform services to education, healthcare, business, sports and corrections clients, has reportedly done a national search as part of its evaluation process. Of the options it is considering locally include staying in Center City, moving to the Navy Yard or to Camden, N.J., according to people familiar with the situation. While the current building could accommodate that amount of space, there is no other office tower in Philadelphia with that much space available. Eventually, though, 2400 Market St. could have enough room.

A new building would have to be constructed at the Navy Yard or Camden. What, if any options, Aramark is considering outside of the Philadelphia area couldn’t be determined and the spokesman declined to take additional questions....
Wonder if she meant 2100 Market that Brandywine is working on? 2400 Market is supposed to have about 200,000 SF of commercial, well short of the 400,000 SF Aramark currently occupies. But even 2100 Market is slated at this point for 250,000 SF of "creative office" space, which again seems like a poor match. If Aramark were to stay in Greater Center City, I would actually suspect a dedicated tower in the University City KOZ, which gives them some of the tax benefits they're looking for and allows them to retain near-perfect transit access. For transportation alone, it seems like the Navy Yard or Camden would be huge downgrades.
     
     
  #143  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2016, 7:08 PM
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Speculation from Philadelphia Business Journal's Natalie Kostelni that Aramark could become the primary commercial tenant in 2400 Market.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelp...-of-phila.html



Wonder if she meant 2100 Market that Brandywine is working on? 2400 Market is supposed to have about 200,000 SF of commercial, well short of the 400,000 SF Aramark currently occupies. But even 2100 Market is slated at this point for 250,000 SF of "creative office" space, which again seems like a poor match. If Aramark were to stay in Greater Center City, I would actually suspect a dedicated tower in the University City KOZ, which gives them some of the tax benefits they're looking for and allows them to retain near-perfect transit access. For transportation alone, it seems like the Navy Yard or Camden would be huge downgrades.
By 2018 there should be significant vacancies, including FMC's space and the renovated space at the old GSK building. 1900 market would've been a location until IBX signed those big leases. They could always move to UC. When you are located right next to Jefferson Station it would be a huge blow for employees to move to a car centric location where they have to drive. In addition, moving just as Market East starts to rebound would seem kind of silly.
     
     
  #144  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2016, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by domodeez View Post
Speculation from Philadelphia Business Journal's Natalie Kostelni that Aramark could become the primary commercial tenant in 2400 Market.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelp...-of-phila.html



Wonder if she meant 2100 Market that Brandywine is working on? 2400 Market is supposed to have about 200,000 SF of commercial, well short of the 400,000 SF Aramark currently occupies. But even 2100 Market is slated at this point for 250,000 SF of "creative office" space, which again seems like a poor match. If Aramark were to stay in Greater Center City, I would actually suspect a dedicated tower in the University City KOZ, which gives them some of the tax benefits they're looking for and allows them to retain near-perfect transit access. For transportation alone, it seems like the Navy Yard or Camden would be huge downgrades.
Yeah, size matters here - and most of the stuff on the drawing board doesn't have it. Seems like Cira II could be kickstarted by this move, perhaps. Honestly, I'd hate to see Aramark leave a gaping hole in Market East. I briefly worked with that company and it was a great spot, with access to "Jefferson" Station and and the Reading Terminal Market without having to go outside on a rainy day. At the time, the surrounding area was still pretty much a wasteland, as "Midtown Village" hadn't yet exploded. After having stuck it out there for so long, it'd be a shame for Aramark to leave just as the surrounding area is starting to "happen." I don't see the appeal of the Navy Yard for larger established companies. Camden's only appeal is "government welfare," as has been pointed out. Looks like Outta Here will have to keep waiting for someone to love 8th & Market too.
     
     
  #145  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2016, 7:14 PM
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By 2018 there should be significant vacancies, including FMC's space and the renovated space at the old GSK building. 1900 market would've been a location until IBX signed those big leases. They could always move to UC. When you are located right next to Jefferson Station it would be a huge blow for employees to move to a car centric location where they have to drive. In addition, moving just as Market East starts to rebound would seem kind of silly.
Beat me to expressing some of the same sentiments.
     
     
  #146  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2016, 7:17 PM
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its also not wise to presume they are looking for 400k sf. One thing we know, almost all major tenants are downsizing when they move or sign new leases. Between open office floorplans, telecommuting, less file space, etc. these companies are squeezing the same # of folks into smaller footprints to save money. GSK reduced their space dramatically when they moved to Navy Yard.
     
     
  #147  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2016, 12:47 PM
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its also not wise to presume they are looking for 400k sf. One thing we know, almost all major tenants are downsizing when they move or sign new leases. Between open office floorplans, telecommuting, less file space, etc. these companies are squeezing the same # of folks into smaller footprints to save money. GSK reduced their space dramatically when they moved to Navy Yard.
Agreed, for example my wife's law firm has expanded dramatically. Instead of leasing more space or looking for a move they have a schedule to allow employees to work from home and come into office as needed. It's a win-win.
     
     
  #148  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 1:15 PM
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Aramark looking at 2400 Market for new HQ.

Aramark looking at 2400 Market St. for HQ - Philadelphia business Journal.



http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelp...nney-logo.html
     
     
  #149  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 1:33 PM
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Aramark looking at 2400 Market St. for HQ - Philadelphia business Journal.



http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelp...nney-logo.html
He brought up signage. While I agree signs cannot be ugly, they also cannot be the reason why Fortune 500 companies don't come or stay in Philadelphia.

Seems petty, but it is obviously an issue.
     
     
  #150  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 1:59 PM
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Aramark looking at 2400 Market St. for HQ - Philadelphia business Journal.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelp...nney-logo.html
From that article, Mayor Kenney: "I understand their issues and their considerations. I understand that they’re a publicly-traded company..."

Can you elaborate on what you "understand" Jimmy? Your corporate tax burden is high and Market East has devolved into an absolute embarrassment since the Aramark building was initially constructed?

I don't blame Aramark for not wanting their prestige clients/consultants/business partners to walk out the front door to the daily shit show that is Market East: the Black Israelites, the Methadone Clinic, the dead/depressing mall, the low-rent sneaker stores. As optimistic as we all are about Market East's future (at least 1 project, anyways) this company has had to coexist during its worst past and present, all the while the city takes a back seat to do-nothing developers (Goldenberg), incompetent ones (PREIT), parking squatters (Parkway/Zuritsky), and slumlords (Rappaport) along this stretch.

You reap what you sow - the city should have been a force cleaning up ME for the last 10 years, and hasn't been - now they are in danger of losing one of its most high profile corporate tenants to, literally, greener pastures as a result.
     
     
  #151  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 3:08 PM
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I'm hesitant to say that 2400 Market is much better than Market East though... As long as they stay in Philly I'm okay with it.
     
     
  #152  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 3:18 PM
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I'm hesitant to say that 2400 Market is much better than Market East though... As long as they stay in Philly I'm okay with it.
Having briefly worked at Aramark in the early 2000's, I can say that it's hard to beat the location, with respect to proximity to transportation and other amenities. As others have pointed out, however, the neighborhood beyond the Reading Terminal Market left a lot to be desired. That does seem to be turning around, but if Aramark shifts to the city's new center of gravity, it will be a long time before we even see a rendering of an office building east of City Hall.
     
     
  #153  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 3:44 PM
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From that article, Mayor Kenney: "I understand their issues and their considerations. I understand that they’re a publicly-traded company..."

Can you elaborate on what you "understand" Jimmy? Your corporate tax burden is high and Market East has devolved into an absolute embarrassment since the Aramark building was initially constructed?

I don't blame Aramark for not wanting their prestige clients/consultants/business partners to walk out the front door to the daily shit show that is Market East: the Black Israelites, the Methadone Clinic, the dead/depressing mall, the low-rent sneaker stores. As optimistic as we all are about Market East's future (at least 1 project, anyways) this company has had to coexist during its worst past and present, all the while the city takes a back seat to do-nothing developers (Goldenberg), incompetent ones (PREIT), parking squatters (Parkway/Zuritsky), and slumlords (Rappaport) along this stretch.

You reap what you sow - the city should have been a force cleaning up ME for the last 10 years, and hasn't been - now they are in danger of losing one of its most high profile corporate tenants to, literally, greener pastures as a result.
Have you been on Market east recently? Doesn't seem like it....
     
     
  #154  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 4:15 PM
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Have you been on Market east recently? Doesn't seem like it....
Agreed. It's a really odd time to rag on Market East when its fortunes are the brightest they've been in about a century. The idea that market east has "devolved" since Aramark moved there in the 80s is pretty absurd. Market East was a pile of shit in the 80s... and granted has remained a pile of shit for the majority of the time since, but has recently turned the corner and is experiencing a ton of investment.
     
     
  #155  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 4:31 PM
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Agreed. It's a really odd time to rag on Market East when its fortunes are the brightest they've been in about a century. The idea that market east has "devolved" since Aramark moved there in the 80s is pretty absurd. Market East was a pile of shit in the 80s... and granted has remained a pile of shit for the majority of the time since, but has recently turned the corner and is experiencing a ton of investment.
Not only that, much of what he referred to isn't even there. The stores on the girard estate block are gone and being replaced and PREIT purchased additional buildings in the 1000 block and those are now vacant. The gallery project is already underway and the 1100 block of chestnut is being transformed. Brickstone is also investing in the former Mellon Independence Building at 8th street. Market East declined to the collapse of the large retailers that served as its anchor for decades. It was unfortunate, but not unparalleled in major US central cities.
     
     
  #156  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 4:55 PM
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Not only that, much of what he referred to isn't even there. The stores on the girard estate block are gone and being replaced and PREIT purchased additional buildings in the 1000 block and those are now vacant. The gallery project is already underway and the 1100 block of chestnut is being transformed. Brickstone is also investing in the former Mellon Independence Building at 8th street. Market East declined to the collapse of the large retailers that served as its anchor for decades. It was unfortunate, but not unparalleled in major US central cities.
Yes. As I said before, they stuck it out through the really bad times and it would be a shame for them to relocate just when things are looking up for Market East.
     
     
  #157  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 5:36 PM
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Have you been on Market east recently? Doesn't seem like it....
Probably once every other week. This isn't groundbreaking criticism - Market East isn't very nice. Perhaps, like life, it's all relative?

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Agreed. It's a really odd time to rag on Market East when its fortunes are the brightest they've been in about a century. The idea that market east has "devolved" since Aramark moved there in the 80s is pretty absurd. Market East was a pile of shit in the 80s... and granted has remained a pile of shit for the majority of the time since, but has recently turned the corner and is experiencing a ton of investment.
Well - most city's (NYC especially) during the late 70s early 80s were in a period of crazy crime and urban flight.

However, The Gallery I opened in 1977 and Gallery II opened in (i think) 1983 - and anecdotally and promotionally, the whole complex - as hard is it is to believe now - was something of a marvel. Like, it was a popular attraction for about a decade. Also, many of the major department stores were open in all their glory (e.g. Wanamakers, Strawbridges, Gimbels, JC Penney). The CC Commuter Tunnel - a massive infrastructure endeavor - was under construction promising a brand new commuter station and regional access. Also, during this time, the plans to relocate the Convention Center - and renovate the Reading Terminal Grand Hall - another huge investment - were underway.

In other words, there was maybe more investment and optimism in ME during that period than at any other time since it's pre-war department store heyday. So, enter Aramark - which I'm assuming was sold on this area's sizable momentum and they take a financial risk and commit to building a new tower which opens...in 1984. I really don't think it's that much of a stretch to assume that (given what they were expecting in 1982) Aramark probably has been a bit disappointed over the last 30 years at how ME has turned out - and frankly I don't blame them.
     
     
  #158  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 5:50 PM
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Probably once every other week. This isn't groundbreaking criticism - Market East isn't very nice. Perhaps, like life, it's all relative?



Well - most city's (NYC especially) during the late 70s early 80s were in a period of crazy crime and urban flight.

However, The Gallery I opened in 1977 and Gallery II opened in (i think) 1983 - and anecdotally and promotionally, the whole complex - as hard is it is to believe now - was something of a marvel. Like, it was a popular attraction for about a decade. Also, many of the major department stores were open in all their glory (e.g. Wanamakers, Strawbridges, Gimbels, JC Penney). The CC Commuter Tunnel - a massive infrastructure endeavor - was under construction promising a brand new commuter station and regional access. Also, during this time, the plans to relocate the Convention Center - and renovate the Reading Terminal Grand Hall - another huge investment - were underway.

In other words, there was maybe more investment and optimism in ME during that period than at any other time since it's pre-war department store heyday. So, enter Aramark - which I'm assuming was sold on this area's sizable momentum and they take a financial risk and commit to building a new tower which opens...in 1984. I really don't think it's that much of a stretch to assume that (given what they were expecting in 1982) Aramark probably has been a bit disappointed over the last 30 years at how ME has turned out - and frankly I don't blame them.
Did they sign a 30 year lease, or did they continue to "stick it out" through the disappointments? If they've been itching to leave, now would be an odd time to do it based on dissatisfaction with Market East alone. The west part of Market Street is lacking the sleazy businesses that it once had, but it's hardly less of a work in progress.
     
     
  #159  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Probably once every other week. This isn't groundbreaking criticism - Market East isn't very nice. Perhaps, like life, it's all relative?



Well - most city's (NYC especially) during the late 70s early 80s were in a period of crazy crime and urban flight.

However, The Gallery I opened in 1977 and Gallery II opened in (i think) 1983 - and anecdotally and promotionally, the whole complex - as hard is it is to believe now - was something of a marvel. Like, it was a popular attraction for about a decade. Also, many of the major department stores were open in all their glory (e.g. Wanamakers, Strawbridges, Gimbels, JC Penney). The CC Commuter Tunnel - a massive infrastructure endeavor - was under construction promising a brand new commuter station and regional access. Also, during this time, the plans to relocate the Convention Center - and renovate the Reading Terminal Grand Hall - another huge investment - were underway.

In other words, there was maybe more investment and optimism in ME during that period than at any other time since it's pre-war department store heyday. So, enter Aramark - which I'm assuming was sold on this area's sizable momentum and they take a financial risk and commit to building a new tower which opens...in 1984. I really don't think it's that much of a stretch to assume that (given what they were expecting in 1982) Aramark probably has been a bit disappointed over the last 30 years at how ME has turned out - and frankly I don't blame them.

Aramark could've left already when their original lease expired. I'm familiar with the history of the area, I'm just saying that there were trends at play that were largely outside of the city's control that really hurt ME because it was the center of the CC retail landscape for so long. The reality is I dont think Aramark big wigs really care about this stuff, they likely barely set foot outside the building. Regardless of what happened from 84 until now the future of this area is clearly going to be different based on all the private investment underway. The gallery was an ill conceived urban development that was typical of thinking at the time. The retailers on market were already headed downhill by the 80s, even if this was readily apparent to observers.
     
     
  #160  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2016, 8:20 PM
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Did they sign a 30 year lease, or did they continue to "stick it out" through the disappointments? If they've been itching to leave, now would be an odd time to do it based on dissatisfaction with Market East alone. The west part of Market Street is lacking the sleazy businesses that it once had, but it's hardly less of a work in progress.
2400 market and its immediate environs is basically a dead zone. The best you can say is that there are likely less homeless down there. But that makes sense, because you need pedestrian activity to attract panhandlers. Not an issue near 23rd and market- the land of parking lots. I'd bet 2400 will offer some competitive pricing based on the fact that its an unproven location.
     
     
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