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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2009, 1:03 AM
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Why should they build an outdoor stadium?? It obviously makes more sense to spend more and build a facility that we can utilize year round. That's the idea behind the dome...
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2009, 1:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dsim249 View Post
Why should they build an outdoor stadium?? It obviously makes more sense to spend more and build a facility that we can utilize year round. That's the idea behind the dome...
I think the reason the Riders sell out most of their games, is due to Mosaic Stadium atmosphere. It is a fun time to go and watch football outside. I'm just afraid that if a dome stadium gets built, eventually people will lose interest. Sure it might be a novelty at first, but eventualy not a big deal. I remember when B.C. place apened, the lions games would sell out. Now it's a completely different story. The place is half empty.
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2009, 5:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GTR200 View Post
I think the reason the Riders sell out most of their games, is due to Mosaic Stadium atmosphere. It is a fun time to go and watch football outside. I'm just afraid that if a dome stadium gets built, eventually people will lose interest. Sure it might be a novelty at first, but eventualy not a big deal. I remember when B.C. place apened, the lions games would sell out. Now it's a completely different story. The place is half empty.
I think it's the love of the game and the want to support one of Canada's most beloved CFL franchises. I hardly think thousands of people are paying $40-$70 per game just to sit in the "atmosphere" of a deteriorating stadium. I think the novelty of sitting in the blinding sun or freezing fall air will wear off far quicker than sitting in an incredible, comfortable new stadium.
I have been to a few Rider games, although I do not follow CFL football. So I can't say whether or not the Lions [supposed lack of] popularity is due to their lack of performance or otherwise. But I doubt it's because the fans have no desire to sit in a new stadium out of spite over the loss of their old stadium...
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2009, 8:45 AM
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It will probably take away a few concerts that the MTS usually gets. You'll have to head down the Number 1 for the big events because they may just bypass Winnipeg for a better venue.
Highly unlikely.
With a domed stadium there are no guarantees of attracting certain shows just because it's winter. Most of the big acts do their touring in the summer anyway but what's more important is the market. Regina only makes sense for bands like The Rolling Stones and AC/DC. The reason for this is because these are world-class acts with actual 'world' tours. Bands like that will only make so many stops in any given country and because of that , most of the audience is not going to be from the host-city anyway. In that case , it makes as much sense to choose a venue in the middle of Saskatchewan as it does to put it in Lethbridge or Brandon. Everybody is making a trip to attend anyway.
Successful but not actually "world" class acts just don't need forty thousand seats but if they do , Regina won't usually make the cut over Winnipeg. It has little to do with the facility in either case but Winnipeg has a new , proven venue in the MTS Center so to compete against that would require something considerably better in Regina. It's just simple demographics at that point....Regina is less than a third the size of Winnipeg and the Regina hinterland has even fewer people by comparison.

None of this is to be taken as a "Regina's not good enough" statement. On the contrary , I very much hope that Regina gets a great facility whether it be a dome or otherwise. It could be successful , I'm not saying it can't be. I'm just saying that considering the market , the climate , and every other factor that I can think of , it just doesn't seem like a financially viable idea. I wouldn't invest in it not because it's in Regina (I wouldn't invest in a dome for Winnipeg either) but because it would cost a fortune just to maintain and posting in the black at the end of the year seems like a pipe-dream.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2009, 1:23 PM
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I hope Regina can make a new stadium a reality. The CFL needs a face lift and the more new stadiums and or renovations to existing stadiums the better. The CFL fans deserve better facilities and hopefully it will bring even more fans. I'm not sure i support a domed stadium or not - we debated that to death here in Winnipeg but go Regina.
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2009, 7:08 PM
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Originally Posted by GTR200 View Post
I think the reason the Riders sell out most of their games, is due to Mosaic Stadium atmosphere. It is a fun time to go and watch football outside. I'm just afraid that if a dome stadium gets built, eventually people will lose interest. Sure it might be a novelty at first, but eventualy not a big deal. I remember when B.C. place apened, the lions games would sell out. Now it's a completely different story. The place is half empty.
I think Rider Games sell out because of the atmosphere, but also because half the people there drive from northern parts of the province to supplement Regina's tired wasted government run city with an influx of capitalism and alcohol consumption.

Don't take me literally, I'm just joking around.
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2009, 7:46 PM
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Yes because $350 million is cheaping out.

What was the number being thrown around for Asper's stadium? $120Mil? It was in the 100's anyways.

You don't think an extra 200 mil will buy much?
Sorry for replying so late. I guess I missed your post.

I think you'd be making a mistake comparing the two stadia. A 40,000~ seat domed stadium vs. a 30,000 seat open air stadium is a vastly different engineering feat. And hugely more costlier.

Do note the Fargodome cost $US48 million to build almost twenty years ago on land that was pretty much free. It seats 19,000 for US football games. The CFL field is much bigger.

So if we use a US dollar exchange rate of 20% and a three percent annual inflation rate it would cost more than $104 million dollars to build that stadium today. That ignores the much higher construction costs of today. And you end up with a very plain, vanilla grey box.

To build the Canadian equivalent today but with 40,000 (or 35k or 30k) seats and a much larger field, and expandable to accommodate a Grey Cup every 8 years... Will $350 million do it?

Please note I never said cheaping out or half assed. I did say bare-boned.
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2009, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by grumpy old man View Post
Sorry for replying so late. I guess I missed your post.

I think you'd be making a mistake comparing the two stadia. A 40,000~ seat domed stadium vs. a 30,000 seat open air stadium is a vastly different engineering feat. And hugely more costlier.

Do note the Fargodome cost $US48 million to build almost twenty years ago on land that was pretty much free. It seats 19,000 for US football games. The CFL field is much bigger.

So if we use a US dollar exchange rate of 20% and a three percent annual inflation rate it would cost more than $104 million dollars to build that stadium today. That ignores the much higher construction costs of today. And you end up with a very plain, vanilla grey box.

To build the Canadian equivalent today but with 40,000 (or 35k or 30k) seats and a much larger field, and expandable to accommodate a Grey Cup every 8 years... Will $350 million do it?

Please note I never said cheaping out or half assed. I did say bare-boned.
Well maybe you should look around the world and see what is being built currently and for what pricetag...

There is a stadium being built in Stockholm, certainly not "bare-boned" as you like to call it. The retractable roof stadium has a 50,000 capacity and comes with a cost of 170m Euro which is about 270 mil Cdn.

attaching a new stadium with a brand new hotel(who have already been in contact with the gov't about the potential for doing something like this, also condo developers), restaurants, and the potential to join it with the downtown casino are all very exciting options.
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2009, 8:48 PM
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Some of you guys sure are defensive...

I did look for that Stockholm Stadium you mentioned but had no luck. I also did a search for domed stadiums to see if anything comparable was being built around the world. No luck there either.

I found this: http://www.worldstadiums.com/europe/...s/sweden.shtml and this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholmsarenan, which has 30,000 seats and will cost about $145 million to build. But it does not have a dome. Perhaps you could post a link?

For the record, I'm all in favour of you guys getting the stadium you want. I've said so several times.
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2009, 10:40 PM
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This is really getting exciting folks!!!

http://www.leaderpost.com/Consulting...547/story.html

Quote:
Consulting companies get to work preparing study of domed stadium for Regina


Casino Regina with the CP rail yards in the background. If CP Rail relocates to the planned transportation hub west of Regina a new domed stadium could be built in it's place with access to Casino Regina.Photograph by: Don Healy , Leader-PostREGINA — One of the companies hired to paint a picture of what a domed stadium in downtown Regina could look like says its work is already getting underway.

“We’re just in the process this week of setting up a bunch of stakeholder meetings,” said Stadium Consultants International (SCI) principal Chris O’Reilly on Wednesday, adding the firm plans to have detailed meetings with the Saskatchewan Roughriders to get an idea of the types of areas the team would be looking for in a new facility.

SCI — along with consulting firm Global Spectrum — is tasked with completing much of the work on the feasibility study looking into a Regina facility, including site planning, preliminary design options and costing.

“We’ve done a lot of feasibilities like this one for various types of buildings of different sizes and different uses,” O’Reilly explained this week after the three levels of government and the Roughriders announced they would spend up to $1 million on the study, due in January 2010.

“We like to go into the process with a fairly open mind — not too many preconceptions.”

As its name suggests, SCI specializes in sports and entertainment projects, and is currently involved in an overhaul of New York’s Madison Square Garden.

Past work of the Toronto-based company, an entity of BBB Architects, includes large arena projects such as General Motors Place in Vancouver and the Air Canada Centre in Toronto. SCI also did the design concepts for the renovations to Edmonton’s Rexall Place and Calgary’s Pengrowth Saddledome.

With input from experts such as engineers, the company will produce design plans for the Regina facility and the possibility of a retractable roof, talk with Global Spectrum, which has expertise in operating facilities, and provide the work to construction firm PCL for input on potential costs, O’Reilly said.

Beyond the stadium itself, O’Reilly said they will be looking at how it could integrate with the surrounding area. The site the consultants have been asked to look at is the current home of the CP yards, which are expected to relocate.

“We would anticipate maybe some pedestrian ways linking the downtown, possibly having a connection with the casino building,” he said, adding there are old underground tunnels from when that building was an active train station that could perhaps be reinstated.

“We would look at other development opportunities on the site as well, whether it’s mixed use buildings or retail or hotel, so we’ll map out some different possibilities on how that might be developed.”


Speaking earlier this week, Enterprise Minister Ken Cheveldayoff said the parties will review the work of the consultants early next year before making any decisions about whether to proceed with a new stadium.


ahall@leaderpost.canwest.com

© Copyright (c) The Regina Leader-Post
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 1:56 AM
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B.C. place stadium is getting an open roof.

     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 2:26 AM
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Think I heard on TSN, and sorry if this already came up here, that a price tag for a dome stadium in Regina seating 30-35k fans would be a little more than $300-M.

Assuming there are still a few years for the money, politics, planning, etc, to all come together... that price tag could easily be $500-M + when the 'shovels hit the ground.'

While I know, and admire, that Rider fans are extremely passionate for their team, I'm willing to bet that not enough of the populace are so fanatical that they would be okay with something half a billion.... even if half of that comes from private sources. Not everyone likes football (seemingly the anchor tenant for such a new stadium), and many have concerns outside of the sports realm (health care wait times, quality of roads, financial assistance due to droughts, etc, etc, etc).

Open air is nice for football. Enjoy it at half the price of some retractable dome. Migs may want to chime in, but I think that us prairie CFL clubs often have some advantage vs. indoor teams when they come to play us on a cold and windy October (our ballers are more practiced at compensating for the wind and cold).

Nonetheless, hope you Rider fans do get a newer stadium within the next decade. Like Biff wrote above, it's good for the CFL to have great facilities across the league.
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 4:21 AM
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Originally Posted by grumpy old man View Post
Some of you guys sure are defensive...

I did look for that Stockholm Stadium you mentioned but had no luck. I also did a search for domed stadiums to see if anything comparable was being built around the world. No luck there either.

I found this: http://www.worldstadiums.com/europe/...s/sweden.shtml and this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholmsarenan, which has 30,000 seats and will cost about $145 million to build. But it does not have a dome. Perhaps you could post a link?

For the record, I'm all in favour of you guys getting the stadium you want. I've said so several times.
I mentioned the stockholm stadium weeks ago on the Regina Construction Thread. It is mentioned in the concept study and the Premier referred to it on the Drew Remenda show tonight. It is around $300 million and has a retractable roof.
I believe it is under construction.
http://www.stockholmsarenan.se/?tabid=88

     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 4:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dsim249 View Post
Why should they build an outdoor stadium?? It obviously makes more sense to spend more and build a facility that we can utilize year round. That's the idea behind the dome...
oh yeah, and what would you use it for all year?...step back and think about it for a second.

there is no need for a dome...it will never happen...the added $100m capital cost is just the begining...you have to heat and cool a giant building for 365 days a year with very few revenue generating dates to support it.

i worked on the dome business plan for winnipeg....it makes no sense here and even less sense there....there are very few stadium concert tours anymore...one every couple of years at most, and they are all in the summer...there are no stadium tours in canada in the winter, so a dome is not necessasry.....that plus 10 football games a year does not provide the financial support for a dome.

you guys will go through it and realize that a dome makes no sense....nobody builds domes anymore....the 1980's are over....most cities are now tearing down their domes.
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 4:45 AM
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It is good this forum is up and running, a few of the Regina development fourm people probably tire sifting through dome posts.

People who read the other forum will know I am against the dome idea and I wanted to make a few points here why that is.

First, the city CMA maybe up to 250 000 (I threw Moose Jaw in) or 1/4 the population of Calgary/Edmonton and 1/2 to 1/3 the CMA of Winnipeg. The connections by Air aren't as good, though that might change, by road are the same, no rail. We are economically and geographically isolated although this is being addressed with airport expansion and HUB creation. The size of the facility and our geographic position/ surroundings don't add up.

Second, the main tennant Roughriders are probably more popular than ever but that has fluctuated in the past. More important, the CFL is strong now but regardless of how well the Riders do failure in Toronto due to NFL competition-subsequent loss of TV interest could destroy the league as we know it. The Leader Post recently said more than 50% of CFL merchandise comes from the Riders. Because we're doing well doesn't insure the league is or will in the future.

Third, although the football field turf is perfect for the Riders it doesn't allow for other sports. Soccer locally could be played on it but exibition games are probablly the only chance for some kind of professional soccer, but the market isn't large enough, and the very large clubs in Europe could attract people from the praries but they wont play on a artificial surface. Canadian national team wont come and Rugby is out. From the executive summery report, baseball looked like it would need some modification of the playing surface to be wider than necessary for just football and again not a market or venue for anything greater than A baseball and I'd doubt A could have a proper go. Hockey, maybe, but what about cooling the space effectively for an exhibition game be worth it? Basketball doesn't fit, although again at a local level I can imagine like 8 courts for some kind of event/tournament.

Forth, Tradeshows are very important to fill the calendars of the other major Canadian domes- go to their websites to check them out- I could imagine a fair few car-boat-home/garden-cottage-RV type events but it seems our market may not support the largest of them and I question how much will be just stealing off the Exhibition Grounds.

Fifth Concerts, Full field concerts will be few and far between just because those acts are few and far between. U2, the Who, Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Led Zepplin, Paul McCartney, Springstien with Tom Petty maybe The Egales, Billy Joel. I'm running out and the last few would have to be package deals to get nearly 50 000 people to come to Regina. Again, this would likely depend on other prarie cities not hosting the same act on that tour. I can imagine most concerts requiring half a field and then it gets interesting because the capacity is comparble to a saddle dome, rexall, ACC. While this sounds good, again it become more likely the cities around us still are on the tour and the numbers go down. Also different sounds that don't a have a broad appeal might not attract the numbers. For example, AC/DC is an event and they're popular enough through the generations that there are many fans and many will go just because it is the ticket, the party in town to be at. Would Nine Inch Nails, System of a Down or Radiohead attract 20 000 in Saskatchewan? I'm not convinced, but probably a Kanye West, No Doubt or Red Hot Chilli Peppers could work half a dome in the Sask market, but we'd be competing with S'Toon for some of those. The best facility for concerts would be a multi-purpose room attached with good accoustics that could hold 1500-2000 +. Use it as a ballroom style, with lots of smaller banquets and conventions for the day and at night it would provide a venue for bands but again do bands fly over because of venues or just because of lack of demand outside major markets?

Sixth, 350 million is a lot even by current stadium standards, look around at europe or north america and most stadia, even ones much larger are less or similar in cost. 350 doesn't include parking, land cost/servicing or the walkways/connections to link different projects-possible hotels- or areas (downtown). The porject seems much more expensive now than recent ones and no costing has been provided. Parking and traffic is a major concern for downtown. For rider games I can imagine park and ride solutions using the exhibition grounds or malls and busing in. But there will have to be parking for various other events at different times. I wish it weren't so, but this is a driving city/region, although building up the casino lot or extensive underground/parking strcutures or probably a combination of those options will a park and ride might get the job done.

Seventh, I am a little concerned with the economic determinism in the pro side. I have no doubt such a facility will bring more, probably not that much more, dollers into Regina but so far the bars and Casino have been the most obvious benificiaries but is that what the city wants to become, 'Regina, come for the dome, stay for the binge drinking and gambling.' I foresee Dewdney Ave becoming like a Redmile or Oilermile complete with rowdy unpradictable crowds and rampant alcoholism. Every game because that's likely the front door to the stadium. Casino connections aren't for those under 19, or will laws change or special areas be created. Where do the buses leave to/from if the north street is full of people off to the entertainment district after the game? It is important that we understand how much this realigns the city, it's focal points, and where activity could potentialy take place.


Lastly, the process of releasing the report and starting a feasability study on the same day, the lack of any time to think or debate -even on the other fourm people have been attacked on their character/social-economic status for oposition. The executive summary realeased by the government has no costing, no way to confirm the numbers and no public in put. That said CTV news Regina did an online poll and found 69% were for. Not scientific, but there seems to be broad support of 55-60% range for the dome.

Everything together suggests to me this is a risky throw of the dice to make Regina into some hot new spot. It is bold, and very much inline with the bosterism that the city fathers and new gov't believe in. I don't think it'll work well. I think the space could be used to increase residency downtown and link the warehouse district to downtown with a network of shoping streets with residences above. Time will tell.
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 5:08 AM
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^good post.

think about the revenue needed to maintain an indoor building that size all year...other than rider games (which would be better outside anyways) you would be lucky to fill the building even half full once a month....there is a reason BC place is removing its roof and minneapolis is demolishing the metrodome and the allouettes and impact play in tiny stadium when they have a dome down the street.

regina would be better served, if they actually had the $300 mil it would cost to build a dome, to take that money and spend $150 on a 30 000 seat open air stadium, $10 million on an indoor full field, practice facility and $140 mil on a 10 000 seat arena.
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 5:29 AM
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It would cost an estimated 350 million dollars

what was that?

It would cost an estimated 350 million dollars

I guess if Moose Jaw (34,000) can build a $60 million stadium, Regina (203,000) can realistically consider the cost.

Regina has 6 X the Moose Jaw population ...6 X 60 Milllion = 360 million.
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 7:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mjpaul View Post
It would cost an estimated 350 million dollars

what was that?

It would cost an estimated 350 million dollars

I guess if Moose Jaw (34,000) can build a $60 million stadium, Regina (203,000) can realistically consider the cost.

Regina has 6 X the Moose Jaw population ...6 X 60 Milllion = 360 million.

Circumstances


Using that logic, Calgary can consider the cost of $1,740,000,000 for a new stadium...a stadium for a city of 1,079,310 people.

If you want to use Moose Jaw as an example of how much is okay to spend on multi-plex facilities, the cost of their facility is $34,000,000. I am not sure where you read $60,000,000.

Using your previous one city fits all method (Moose Jaw is the standard to which all cities are measured), Regina can afford to spend $204 M on a stadium.

As well, Moose Jaw intends to fund raise $6.5 M over time. That's 19% of the total $34 million.

Again, using Moose Jaw as the standard, Regina could raise 19% of $205 M, that's $38,950,000. $350 M for a domed stadium would require fund raising of $66,500,000.

Rising Debt

Saskatoon's 2008 Financial Report lists our city's debt at $89,144,000 up from $47,456,000 (2007). Debt servicing costs (Interest rates range from 1.75 percent to 10.5 percent) rose from $6,728,000 (2007), to $10,367,000 (2008). I didn't bother checking why it went up (land development is no doubt in there).

The City of Regina website has the 2006 Financial Report available, nothing for 2007 or 2008. But, total debt is $43,290,000 (2007) according to the Moose Jaw Multiplex - Get the Facts.

Have proponents seriously considered all costs and perceived benefits?

I am all for big dollar projects when the potential return is great, but if the economics don't make sense, fuck it.

Build some kind of stadium, but remember there are benefits to lower taxes and user fees.


Source

_______________________

I am confused.

This press release says the federal and provincial governments are partnering to deliver $23.5 million for the Moose Jaw Multiplex, but, various media sources cite $34 M for the project.

Is the City of Moose Jaw only contributing $10.5 million? If so, why does Moose Jaw Multiplex - Get the Facts cite borrowing for the multi-plex at $38,300,000 (less 6.5 M for pledges)?

Holy misinformation!

Last edited by Ruckus; Jul 23, 2009 at 7:35 AM.
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 8:28 PM
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I have an idea, instead of ONLY debating whether or not a dome is viable, in case the dome DOES get built. How about we argue what should be done to the dome to be most successful. For instance i heard someone mention earlier on another thread that they should have retail stores around the outside of the stadium to help create revenue with leasing fees. An idea i had that is not money related but area related is that since the stadium may be built on the old railyards beside the warehouse district, maybe the exterior of the stadium should have a brick warehouse like facade. Any other ideas of what would make the dome work?
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 9:10 PM
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Making the exterior of the stadium look like old warehouses will most certainly look nice. It may very well be appropriate also.

It won't make the stadium more viable though...
     
     
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