NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[chris08876]

Received an email:

The meeting information for "Empire Station Complex - GPP and DEIS Public Hearing", which you previously registered for has been updated by the host.

Please submit any questions to: help@publicworkspartners.com

Date Time: May 12, 2021 05:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: Click Here to Join
Passcode: 477629
Note: This link should not be shared with others; it is unique to you.
Add to Calendar Add to Google Calendar Add to Yahoo Calendar

Or One tap mobile :
US: +16465588656,,84747208684# or +13017158592,,84747208684#
Or Telephone:
Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location):
US: +1 646 558 8656 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or +1 669 900 9128 or +1 253 215 8782 or +1 346 248 7799
Meeting ID: 847 4720 8684
Passcode: 477629
International numbers available: https://us02web.zoom.us/u/kgnuHLphC

[newyorker]

I don't want to be an old man by the time this is built.

[NYguy]

I was walking 34th Street yesterday, and it was shoulder to shoulder, almost like normal times. The area could use the redevelopment, but they also need to ensure the liveliness is kept in place. I know that’s the plan, but Vornado should take note.

[rgarri4]

NY post article featuring my animation:

https://nypost.com/2021/03/27/condo-...ation-project/

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by newyorker

I don't want to be an old man by the time this is built.

Its going to be gradually. But it will fill in. First one super tall, than another, and than another. Think of it almost like the Midtown East Rezoning. The whole area and also the proxy developments this will spur will ensure this area is poppin' for years to come.

Similar to Hudson Yards. Its more than just the yards but the surroundings. Developments and growth that will spur from the impact of the actual yards.

[mrnyc]

what do you know, cranky old cuoz, that tool of the murdoch family, is agin empire:


https://nypost.com/2021/04/03/nyc-mu...-penn-station/

[Busy Bee]

^ Is there something lower than a rag?

[SkyHigher]

NYT? Condoned pedophilia.

Oh and Happy Easter everyone

[Sky88]

NYC MUST STOP Governor Cuomo's Plan to Demolish Area Around Penn Station says Cuozzo in its article, but to the critics to the Cuozzo project does not offer a possible alternative on how to improve the area. Perhaps the problem is linked to the two towers of the site 2 which as they were presented are too much massum, large and with little space between them and that almost create a wall that seems to obstruct the view of the rest of the area with its presence. We all know that the towers seen only part of a preliminary project but I hope for the future that the two Towers of the site 2 are higher and more slender or maybe see a single tower.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by SkyHigher

NYT? Condoned pedophilia.

Yeah, so that doesn't sound crazy at all.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I was walking 34th Street yesterday, and it was shoulder to shoulder, almost like normal times. The area could use the redevelopment, but they also need to ensure the liveliness is kept in place. I know that’s the plan, but Vornado should take note.

I agree. Some may compare this plan to Hudson Yards. But Hudson Yards was mostly warehouse-type buildings, empty lots, and under-utilized land. Much of this proposal strikes me as a World Trade Center type development, which cleared out blocks of an area that was still vibrant to build hulking skyscrapers that sat empty for years and really were not liked by NYC residents until years later as well.

[Hudson11]

• Video Link

[NYguy]

https://mailchi.mp/humanscale/round-...e-city-1306925

Come join our Press Conference:
Wednesday, April 7, 2021 – 12:00 PM


When: Wednesday, April 7, 12:00 PM


Where: 401 Seventh Avenue, New York, NY (In front of The Hotel Pennsylvania)


CONTACT:
Lynn Ellsworth, Human-Scale NYC

Striking Back at the Empire: New Coalition Calls on Elected Officials to Stop Cuomo’s Empire Station Complex

On Wednesday, April 7th at 12:00 PM, a new coalition of transit advocates, civic groups, and Manhattan residents will hold a press conference to protest Governor Cuomo’s Empire Station Complex.

The Governor’s plan fails to address the core issues of Penn Station, including below ground mass transit, and seeks to use the State’s power to raze several adjacent historic blocks – without meaningful City or community input – while paving the way for Vornado Realty Trust to build 10 new skyscrapers.

The coalition, whose members include Human-Scale NYC, ReThinkNYC, The City Club of New York, CNU NYC, the 29th Street Neighborhood Association, Untapped New York, Tri-State Transportation Campaign, TakeBackNYC, and the Victorian Society New York, will outline key issues with the Empire Station Complex plan and coalition members will offer alternative solutions for Penn Station and the surrounding neighborhood.

So ignorant.

[mrnyc]

$1.3B for empire underground improvements, but the big PENN15 will err, not rise. at least not with state money:

https://nypost.com/2021/04/06/penn-1...-state-budget/

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

$1.3B for empire underground improvements, but the big PENN15 will err, not rise. at least not with state money:

https://nypost.com/2021/04/06/penn-1...-state-budget/

That's just dumb writing on their part. 15 Penn (or any of the towers) was never dependent on state money to rise, that's now how it works. Nor is it dependent on the rezoning. Nor is it the largest, or centerpiece tower of the development. As we all know (we've been following this for a decade now), 15 Penn is the site of the Hotel Pennsylvania, which Vornado already owns, and for which the City alreay approved this supertall development.

[NYguy]

https://mobile.twitter.com/marni4cou...93303904280587

I attended yesterday’s protest v NYGovCuomo
#Penn15, but plans to ‘build baby build’ not the answer. #PennStation needs fixed, but there should be no gentrifying skyscrapers or demolition of tenant homes & #smallbusinesses bc #demolitionisviolence.

https://mobile.twitter.com/marni4cou...97218808967172

Development should be community-driven w/real community leaders and residents. And must be engaged from beginning to stop demolition, protect neighborhoods. Need more bottom up decisions not top down, or else we get #DemolitionDaddy #Penn15 #nyc4onlyrich

[NYguy]

https://www.amny.com/news/empire-sta...roval-process/

Empire Station Complex vexes opponents who fear displacement and call for public approval process


By Mark Hallum
April 7, 2021

The Empire Station Complex is problematic in any number of ways if you ask opponents who rallied on Seventh Avenue on Wednesday morning.

Senator Brad Hoylman believes Governor Andrew Cuomo’s pet project that was passed in Albany the previous day is wrought with loopholes that should be reviewed by city officials who at this point have no say in how the development proceeds.

With room for ten towers built into the $1.3 billion plan to beautify Penn Station, chair of Human-Scale NYC Lynn Ellsworth wants to the see legislature to create a new planning process for state projects such as this as the current plan approved in the fiscal year 2022 budget does not seem to provide specifics for transit improvements.

“We call for a state managed public hearing and a temporary commissioner of inquiry enabled by our state senate and assembly to examine alternatives… A creative alternate planning process should include electeds from both the city and state and should include a citizens referendum on the future of this area,” Ellsworth said. “We do not need top-down visions imposed upon us from the real estate industrial complex, real democracy is the answer here.”

According to Hoylman, 20 million square feet of new office space is not justified when the vacancy rate in Midtown stands at around 17%, especially after the $5 billion development of Hudson Yards.

Nonetheless, the $1.3 billion approved in the budget essentially puts a down payment on the Empire Station Complex with no cost assessment on the plan as a whole.

“ How does it make sense that the local community board, local elected officials like myself and the city of New York still don’t know what the Penn Station master plan?” Hoylman said.

“[The language passed in the budget] says transportation improvements connected with the Penn Station plan, it doesn’t define what the Penn Station plan is, and the clause of the bill begins with the premise that the $1.3 billion can be used for the demolition and acquisition of property for the furtherance of the Empire Station Complex,” Hoylman added. “Eminent domain is on the table and will probably be used if the property isn’t purchased.”

Hoylman voted against the Empire Station Complex which seems to be a point of contention among legislators who feared it was a simple giveaway to real estate.

https://www.nj.com/news/2021/04/penn...outputType=amp

Penn Station opponents say Cuomo skyscraper plan delivers too little at too high a cost


Apr 07, 2021

Members of a coalition at a demonstration Wednesday criticized New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s “Empire Station” plan to build 10 skyscrapers as a way to fund Penn Station’s redevelopment. The city - not the state - should have power over the decision in the area, after neighbors and businesses in the midtown neighborhood have their say, the group demanded.

Representatives from nine groups making up the coalition criticized the Cuomo plan during a Wednesday rally across the street from Penn Station in front of the Hotel Pennsylvania, one of several historic structures that would be demolished under the plan.

“ Real estate is driving this, not transportation,” said Jeffrey Kroessler, President of the City Club of New York. “None of those transportation improvements would be implemented until the buildings are complete. The design of these buildings will drive what happens underground.”

New York State Senator Brad Hoylman, who represents the 27th district in Manhattan, said the proposed development should follow the city’s normal land use process.

“I’d like to see a pause and sincere community engagement and a uniform land use review process,” he said. “We’re talking to Empire State Development and the MTA. They hear our concerns that (this) is rushing forward and they delayed a (March 24) hearing. ... It’s still too fast.”

While he supports transit improvements, Hotylman said issues to be discussed include how much Empire Station and the surrounding redevelopment will cost the public, he said.

“The taxpayers have the right to know what this will cost and who will benefit,” he said. “I’m not supporting transit improvements at the cost of small businesses, historic resources, rent stabilized tenants and to bankroll private development.”

Neighborhood concerns are high about losing homes and businesses either from eminent domain or rising rents that accompany gentrification, said Marni Halasa, a resident of 34th street between 9th and 10th avenues for 27 years.

“ Right now, I wouldn’t (lose my home), but who’s to say what happens years later, once luxury development encroaches,” said Halasa, who is running for city council. “If 10 skyscrapers are built, all the rents go up.”

Halasa said the proposed development process should be “flipped” so it is from the community, instead of top down from Albany.

“It’s no secret, real demolition of historic buildings is going to happen,” she said. “New York City should have home rule when it comes to this kind of thing.”

[k1052]

Truly torn between my hatred of Cuomo and NYC's terrifyingly bad public process around development which pretty much ensures things don't get built. I don't love the extremely costly Penn South transit complex but the area around Penn and Moynahan should absolutely be built out to the hilt.

[mrnyc]

in my mind at least, some of the opposition is due to the governor and the mta avoiding anything to do with msg. it's truly the elephant in the mix and they can't keep avoiding it if they want to make big moves that the people can get behind.

i mean a very loud msg stays put 100% or msg will have to move to x site needs to be clearly decided and promoted.

maybe i am missing something with that, but it all seems a bit too vague with other msg sites having been mildly floated over the years. why eminent domain on the surrounding area, but not msg the gigantic clog stuck right in the middle of the mix? its kind of like continuing the old penn station tragedy part two.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by k1052

Truly torn between my hatred of Cuomo and NYC's terrifyingly bad public process around development

That may be, but we can discuss development without your own personal politics. It only leads to more, and we don't do that in these threads.

Originally Posted by mrnyc

in my mind at least, some of the opposition is due to the governor and the mta avoiding anything to do with msg. it's truly the elephant in the mix and they can't keep avoiding it if they want to make big moves that the people can get behind.

It doesn't matter what the plan is. They'd be against that too, because it still involves demolition. Basically, whatever plan you come up with, they'd be against it. Even if you decided to move MSG, it's not as if the other NIMBYs are going to welcome it with open arms. The opposition to this wouldn't even come close. Which is why you don't make a development centered on pleasing the NIMBYs. You go with what works best, and what can be built. This particular development is about improving Penn Station capacity and circulation, of which MSG has no bearing on. The other component of this development is improving the area, and MSG is hardly a blight on the neighborhood. It's a huge draw for the entire city. It may be ugly or unsightly, but it's still "the world's most famous arena".