Wpg: Chief Peguis Trail Extension

[Biff]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

The city has estimated the underpass would cost as much as $60 million.


joe.paraskevas@freepress.mb.ca

That is such a bullshit number. The entire Kenaston underpass was $38 million and it involved a much more complicated rail crossing, plus there was the detours needed for existing traffic. This is just the City's way of saying they don't want to spend the money to build it. Either way i don't care, just don't blow smoke up my ass.

If they are going to build the highway it is absolutely ridiculous that you would have a 4 lane, 80 km/hr highway intersecting a small 2 lane 50 km/hr residential street serving 3 schools.

[The Jabroni]

$60 million for either a dedicated pedestrian overpass or a 2 lane road? That can't be right, and the skyrocketing construction costs is no excuse anymore.

I'm with Biff on this one!

[Spocket]

Sixty million bucks ? Uh, is it made out of gold and covered in diamonds or something ?

[1ajs]

60million? wha? what kinda inlfation rate is that over 5 years?

[furiousmcd]

Why exactly is this extension such a priority when so many other projects are in dire straits? Is there a plan that goes along with it? From what I've heard and seen about it, I'm drawn to think it's another senseless project that the city shamelessly completes in the most inexpensive way and will end up regretting. Maybe I'm just cynical today...

[Spocket]

^
Currently all the cross streets linking Henderson to Lagimodiere are over capacity. Way over capacity. They were never intended to handle that kind of traffic and furthermore, they're residential collector streets for the most parts. As it stands, it would cost us more in the long run not to build the CPT extension because we'd be rebuilding Sprinfield , McLeod, and McIvor at a greater frequency than we should have to. It's also a safety issue since these other streets mentioned aren't supposed to be main arteries and have houses and schools fronting them.

This corridor should have been built years ago but has been deferred every time it's come up on the agenda. If the city waits any longer, we'll be looking at millions spent to fix the collector streets while at the same time, not actually addressing the traffic issues. If the world suddenly decided that it would take the bus then no, we wouldn't need this but change is slow and it's going to be decades before we can count on high-density , walkable communities to ease traffic concerns.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by furiousmcd

Why exactly is this extension such a priority when so many other projects are in dire straits? Is there a plan that goes along with it? From what I've heard and seen about it, I'm drawn to think it's another senseless project that the city shamelessly completes in the most inexpensive way and will end up regretting. Maybe I'm just cynical today...

I'll pose this question once again, what part of the city do you live in? Sure as shit I'm pretty sure it's not anywhere in NE Winnipeg!



PS. Spocket; the land for the Chief Peguis Trail has been set aside since at least 1974, it could even be longer, I think if this project was on the books this long anywhere in south Winnipeg it would have been built ten years ago!

[Spocket]

^You're probably right but growth rates in the south end are also considerably higher. I recall the ND Lea report done for Waverley West which basically states that south Winnipeg makes up about %70 (actually, I think it was just over %70) of new home construction in the city.

Bishop Grandin was undoubtedly the catalyst for that growth but it's not really fair if somebody wants to make the same claim for the CPT extension. When BIshop was first constructed, there wasn't nearly as much development south of it as today. The corridor for the CPT extension was surrounded by development years ago and while plan calls for further extensions , the current extension won't be facilitating sprawl since said sprawl already exists. We all want higher density of course but in this case, the damage is already done.

[furiousmcd]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

I'll pose this question once again, what part of the city do you live in? Sure as shit I'm pretty sure it's not anywhere in NE Winnipeg!

Hahah, you would be right by that assumption. I live in Old St. Vital.

[furiousmcd]

So with all of this said, do they plan on closing off part of Springfield Road like they did with Wilkes with the Kenaston Overpass?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by furiousmcd

So with all of this said, do they plan on closing off part of Springfield Road like they did with Wilkes with the Kenaston Overpass?

Springfield will be closed after the auto businesses to the east and after Dunits Rd to the west.

you can check out all the PDF's here;

http://www.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/C...eguisTrail.asp

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Biff

Springfield will be closed after the auto businesses to the east and after Dunits Rd to the west.

you can check out all the PDF's here;

http://www.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/C...eguisTrail.asp

Well, after reading that, at least they synchronized those traffic lights, and at least planned for a future underpass at Rothsay Street.

It still boggles my mind why they can't building the underpass the first time around.

[transformrman]

Does anyone who is supporting this highway live near the proposed site?
Rothesay is a quiet residential street! So let me get this straight: The plan is to run a major highway through back and front yards of homeowners, cut both sides of this area off from each other, and destroy a wonderful piece of open space, in favour of a highway? The North perimeter highway is 2.4 kilometers away and will do (and currently does) most of what is expecting will be achieved by this travesty of construction.
Perhaps our planners might want to look at the mess connecting Lagimodiere with the Perimeter. Reconfiguing this area would greatly reduce the need for this highway. Or take a look at the confusion currently at Lagimodiere and Springfield (see: Molson and De Vries intersection). Planners have done a very poor job on the two aforementioned projects.
So I say again, those who support this project: do you live within a few blocks of this proposed hwy? Would you want to have a huge wall in front of your house?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by transformrman

Does anyone who is supporting this highway live near the proposed site?
Rothesay is a quiet residential street! So let me get this straight: The plan is to run a major highway through back and front yards of homeowners, cut both sides of this area off from each other, and destroy a wonderful piece of open space, in favour of a highway? The North perimeter highway is 2.4 kilometers away and will do (and currently does) most of what is expecting will be achieved by this travesty of construction.
Perhaps our planners might want to look at the mess connecting Lagimodiere with the Perimeter. Reconfiguing this area would greatly reduce the need for this highway. Or take a look at the confusion currently at Lagimodiere and Springfield (see: Molson and De Vries intersection). Planners have done a very poor job on the two aforementioned projects.
So I say again, those who support this project: do you live within a few blocks of this proposed hwy? Would you want to have a huge wall in front of your house?

I live near there and have my whole life. That strip of land has been set aside for this very project for as long as those houses have been there, in some cases even longer. Every one who has moved in has known about it. It will serve as the major east-west route between Henderson Hwy and Lagimodiere Blvd. I was at the open house for the area residents and basically there was no real opposition for the project in general due the the fact that every one has known that this is what this property was kept for. What the overwhelming opposition was to the fact that the original design had an underpass at Rothesay(proper) and now the city has cheapend out and wants to put an at grade intersection. I can't fathom who with the city can even remotely think that this is acceptable.

...just two cents from an area resident.

[TSN]

Originally Posted by Biff

I live near there and have my whole life. That strip of land has been set aside for this very project for as long as those houses have been there, in some cases even longer. Every one who has moved in has known about it. It will serve as the major east-west route between Henderson Hwy and Lagimodiere Blvd. I was at the open house for the area residents and basically there was no real opposition for the project in general due the the fact that every one has known that this is what this property was kept for. What the overwhelming opposition was to the fact that the original design had an underpass at Rothesay(proper) and now the city has cheapend out and wants to put an at grade intersection. I can't fathom who with the city can even remotely think that this is acceptable.

...just two cents from an area resident.

You hit the nail on the head. I have no sympathy for people who complain knowing full well that a right of way is being protected for a future transportation corridor. Don't buy property next to something like this in the first place.

But as you pointed out, it's the responsibility of the city to mitigate as many of the livability concerns that are raised by the community whether it involves noise, safety, etc. Sounds like things are half baked.

[transformrman]

Originally Posted by Biff

I live near there and have my whole life. That strip of land has been set aside for this very project for as long as those houses have been there, in some cases even longer. Every one who has moved in has known about it. It will serve as the major east-west route between Henderson Hwy and Lagimodiere Blvd. I was at the open house for the area residents and basically there was no real opposition for the project in general due the the fact that every one has known that this is what this property was kept for. What the overwhelming opposition was to the fact that the original design had an underpass at Rothesay(proper) and now the city has cheapend out and wants to put an at grade intersection. I can't fathom who with the city can even remotely think that this is acceptable.

...just two cents from an area resident.

My grandparents moved into an area off Rothesay in the 1950s and I have family and friends interspersed on either side of the 'great divide'. I don't believe that everyone who has moved into that area has known about this project. Perhaps they should, but that is another story. I don't live in the area but I do travel to this area daily (in rush hour and it’s not bad at all I might add). I agree with you that the Rothesay intersection is an error in judgment. Other things: isn't there a great bike path that just went up in that area? Would that be cutoff as well? If this road went under Rothesay and under Raleigh/Gateway AND was connected to a larger plan (which I haven't seen) to include rapid transit and demostrate an improved transportation system then I may support such a massive scar through the heart of NK. But when the perimeter highway is 2.4 kms away and provides the same service, I cannot support that. Furthermore, has anyone looked at the state our roads? They are very sad. But as I said, plan it properly, mixed in with a broader plan of city transportation, one that we can be proud of, and then this makes sense. As it is right now, to me, this is a project whose time has passed.

[Biff]

I don't think that the traffic congestion in the area is actually that bad it is just the fact that there are no tru collector east-west streets between Lagimodiere and Henderson. This then causes all of the small residential streets to handle more capacity than they were designed for, and talk about taking a beating. Drive down Springfield Rd, every year they tear up the joints and replace with new concrete and yet is still feels like you are going off roading. No i know that all of the streets in the city are crappy but the reason for these being so is the abuse they get from truck traffic that i'm sure they were not designed for.

Regarding the bike trail - the Marconi Trail. They are incorporating new trails with this one year old trail that i'm sure will be the nicest system of trails in the city. Very well thought out.

....and for anyone who didn't know or doesn't know what the planned use for the stretch of open field from Henderson to Lagimodiere was intendend for i say too bad. No one can actually try to convince me that they thought this was intended to remain greenspace. They should have their head checked. And if you move into an area without investigating it first, you really have no right to complain.

[Only The Lonely..]

Did anybody else notice that Petroskos Garden Market and Douglas Auto are both being expropriated for a Park 'n' Ride?

Both have petitions going right now to fight city hall.

Also, my brother surmised that perhaps the reason why River East Plaza has become so run down over the years is because the landlord is planning on turning it into a power centre once the CPT opens up.

Safeway is normally a "premium" grocery chain, but the one in River East Plaza hasn't been renovated since 1968 and is missing the token Starbucks that you normally seem to find in all the other stores.

Concidence?

[Only The Lonely..]

Further to the Park and Ride proposal..

I just can't see anybody from East St.Paul in their big land yacht leaving their vehicle at a surface lot and then taking the bus downtown with the rest of us animals.

I love urbanism and public transit, but I can't imagine it working in real life.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Further to the Park and Ride proposal..

I just can't see anybody from East St.Paul in their big land yacht leaving their vehicle at a surface lot and then taking the bus downtown with the rest of us animals.

I love urbanism and public transit, but I can't imagine it working in real life.

There are lots that do it in a way already, spouses dropping them off at Henderson and Glenway, or even parking on side streets off Henderson. From Chief Peguis Trail one can be downtown by bus in 15 minutes which isn't shabby at all.