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  #2181  
Old Posted May 1, 2019, 7:22 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Problem is, in a ward-specific world, it's a problem.

Racist Rosa doesn't care that there are about 120 square miles of affordable housing in Chicago. He just doesn't like that his ward is seeing an influx of white people. So he is being a prick about it.
If it wasn't a system controlled by local Aldermen, it seems like it might make more sense to charge a tax dedicated to extra policing in high crime areas than to force construction if arbitrarily below market housing.. That's the biggest reason some people are unwilling to consider some of the cheapest housing options since it's not really a good value of you have low rent but always worry about stray bullets. If the crime issue were better dealt with then not only would there be more willingness if court residents to move into those neighborhoods, but maybe even some inner ring suburbanites. And if the crime problem declined to New York levels, the money could be shifted to schools or even public daycare in those areas to support education for lower income families.
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  #2182  
Old Posted May 1, 2019, 8:47 PM
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VivaLFuego VivaLFuego is offline
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
If it wasn't a system controlled by local Aldermen, it seems like it might make more sense to charge a tax dedicated to extra policing in high crime areas than to force construction if arbitrarily below market housing.. That's the biggest reason some people are unwilling to consider some of the cheapest housing options since it's not really a good value of you have low rent but always worry about stray bullets. If the crime issue were better dealt with then not only would there be more willingness if court residents to move into those neighborhoods, but maybe even some inner ring suburbanites. And if the crime problem declined to New York levels, the money could be shifted to schools or even public daycare in those areas to support education for lower income families.
I would humbly suggest that maybe trying to have every arm of Cook County government (but in particular the State's Attorney's office and Courts) work to keep criminals off the streets instead of trying to outdo each other in their virtue-signalling quest to let every criminal run free would be a better start before throwing more money at the problem.
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  #2183  
Old Posted May 1, 2019, 8:51 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
I would humbly suggest that maybe trying to have every arm of Cook County government (but in particular the State's Attorney's office and Courts) work to keep criminals off the streets instead of trying to outdo each other in their virtue-signalling quest to let every criminal run free would be a better start before throwing more money at the problem.
Exactly, it's not as if a large new police training academy (i.e. literally throwing tens of millions of dollars at the problem) was immediately turned into a racist dog whistle for supporting police violence. It's just like Rosa's chief of staff telling my neighbors that "gangbangers need a place to live too". There's a real political tribalism that benefits off dividing the populace. Unfortunately virtue signaling has become more politically valuable than actually addressing problems.
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  #2184  
Old Posted May 1, 2019, 10:09 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
I would humbly suggest that maybe trying to have every arm of Cook County government (but in particular the State's Attorney's office and Courts) work to keep criminals off the streets instead of trying to outdo each other in their virtue-signalling quest to let every criminal run free would be a better start before throwing more money at the problem.
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  #2185  
Old Posted May 1, 2019, 10:13 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Exactly, it's not as if a large new police training academy (i.e. literally throwing tens of millions of dollars at the problem) was immediately turned into a racist dog whistle for supporting police violence. It's just like Rosa's chief of staff telling my neighbors that "gangbangers need a place to live too". There's a real political tribalism that benefits off dividing the populace. Unfortunately virtue signaling has become more politically valuable than actually addressing problems.
And this nonsense will simply drive more segregation.

If we can't control crime, people will just choose instead to take actions into their own hands. Live far away, build gates, etc.

Reminds me of India. Nobody can depend on the corrupt police, so people have their own private security/police forces and isolate themselves from the slums.
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  #2186  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 9:05 PM
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Violent criminals need to be taken off the streets surely but we don't need to waste tax dollars detaining non-violent offenders when there are much cheaper alternatives in the form of home monitoring. People fail to understand that we are actually taking resources away from law enforcement when we focus on trying to detain all criminal regardless of the severity of the offense. It cost 55k to detain a person for a year, money that could go towards hiring detectives who could actually boost the clearance rate which would be more effective in deterring violent crime. Its time for people to let go of this failed notion that if everyone who committed a crime isn't behind bars than it is considered being soft on crime that's a false choice.

Last edited by UPChicago; May 2, 2019 at 9:18 PM.
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  #2187  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 10:23 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Violent criminals need to be taken off the streets surely but we don't need to waste tax dollars detaining non-violent offenders when there are much cheaper alternatives in the form of home monitoring. People fail to understand that we are actually taking resources away from law enforcement when we focus on trying to detain all criminal regardless of the severity of the offense. It cost 55k to detain a person for a year, money that could go towards hiring detectives who could actually boost the clearance rate which would be more effective in deterring violent crime. Its time for people to let go of this failed notion that if everyone who committed a crime isn't behind bars than it is considered being soft on crime that's a false choice.
I don't think there are many people that believe what you've outlined. But clearly Chicago has a violent crime/homicide problem that isn't being helped by Kim Foxx, Toni Prekwinkle and the diversity above all else crowd. It's weird because those most affected by the violence are African Americans. They are voting with their feet by simply leaving the city and the region. Coddling criminals is making it worse.
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  #2188  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 10:49 PM
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VivaLFuego VivaLFuego is offline
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Originally Posted by UPChicago View Post
Violent criminals need to be taken off the streets surely but we don't need to waste tax dollars detaining non-violent offenders when there are much cheaper alternatives in the form of home monitoring. People fail to understand that we are actually taking resources away from law enforcement when we focus on trying to detain all criminal regardless of the severity of the offense. It cost 55k to detain a person for a year, money that could go towards hiring detectives who could actually boost the clearance rate which would be more effective in deterring violent crime. Its time for people to let go of this failed notion that if everyone who committed a crime isn't behind bars than it is considered being soft on crime that's a false choice.
I fail to see how things like the following are particularly helpful:

-downgrading the severity of juvenile carjacking resulting in an ongoing spike in juvenile carjacking
-no longer prosecuting for driving on a suspended license or without a license (I personally consider these violent offenses because of the extent to which it is endangering others); Kim Foxx has done this and it promotes a culture of lawlessness.
-no longer prosecuting major thefts as felonies; again, Kim Foxx and a culture of lawlessness
-lowering bond amounts for a whole range of alleged crimes including domestic violence (see recent Tribune pieces from this week; this is on the court system)

The helpless police departments just arrest the same knuckleheads over and over and they're back on the street in no time, because we've somehow defined the goal of our criminal justice system as "reduce the jail population" as opposed to punishing crime, protecting society, or other more common notions of what it's there for.

This is having a measurable impact on the South Side.

Robberies in Hyde Park are up 50% year over year, there are now regular muggings during daylight evening hours in the neighborhood and on the lakefront trail.

Every Halloween now, somewhere between 500-1000 teens organize The Purge online, form a rampaging mob while shop owners on 53rd street rush to lock their doors and close early while the mob smashes and grabs what they can and throws firecrackers into cars while the police look on and politely ask them to move along and maybe leave the neighborhood, arresting no one (and why should they, it's not like there will be any actual legal consequences other than maybe spending a night locked up). A recent fun spree in the neighborhood has been somewhere between 10-15 home invasion robberies that haven't been particularly well publicized.

One of my favorites was last summer or fall, when some jabronis were spraying bullets at each other while standing up through the sunroofs of their cars on Hyde Park Boulevard, and then proceeded to carjack a woman on Lakeshore Drive to get to the hospital.

The SJW set then acts like the problem is the Lincoln Yards TIF and insufficient publicly-funded after-school activities. Many victims themselves don't bother cooperating with the police, let alone witnesses; often this is as stupid as police = evil and not even about fear of gang retaliation. You think the problem with the low homicide clearance rate is not knowing who did it, or not having a strong enough case to make a charge stick because no one's willing to talk about it?

Oh, and have you ridden the Green Line or Metra Electric lately? Hope you enjoy commuting through clouds of pot smoke (possession and use of which in any setting in most quantities has also been de facto decriminalized so the police don't bother trying to enforce or prevent antisocial usage).

It's been eye-opening living back on the south side, it's a very different perspective than in the Green Zone neighborhoods where there is still some semblance of law and order. Most normal people eventually vote with their feet. tup is exactly right, the result of this ongoing idiocy is ever more bifurcation of the city into tolerable zones and lawless hellscapes.

Last edited by VivaLFuego; May 2, 2019 at 11:13 PM.
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  #2189  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 2:02 AM
galleyfox galleyfox is offline
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Time and demographics are what's really going to sort out Chicago's crime problem. Regardless of the other issues facing law enforcement and the courts, there are simply going to be fewer youth in the city in the upcoming years - vulnerable youth in particular. This trend is kicking Chicago's butt in the raw census numbers right now, but it's really going to help reduce pressure on the city's institutions in the long run.

Most of the active criminals in this city are 15-24 years old before they either get arrested, killed or age out. But that youth pipeline is drying up. Rapidly.

You can easily see how the number of children born to teen and college age mothers falls off a cliff. And how family sizes within the white, black and Hispanic communities are aligning. These are the children who would have been recruited to gangs.

Total Births (City of Chicago)
2000: 50.9k
2005: 45.4k
2010: 42.8k
2015: 39.2k
2017: 36.3k

Total Births/Fertility Rate to White Mothers
2000: 10.7k / 1.34
2005: 10.4k / 1.28
2010: 12.1k / 1.49
2015: 11.6k / 1.43
2017: 10.8k

Total Births/Fertility Rate to Black Mothers
2000: 19.4k / 2.36
2005: 15.4k / 2.08
2010: 13.7k / 2.00
2015: 12.0k / 1.80
2017: 11.2k

Total Births/Fertility Rate to Hispanic Mothers
2000: 18.5k / 2.76
2005: 17.3k / 2.64
2010: 14.3k / 2.22
2015: 12.4k / 1.92
2017: 11.0k

Total Births to Mothers Age <19,
2005: 6.0k
2010: 4.8k
2015: 2.5k
2017: 1.9k

Births to Mothers Age 20-24
2010: 9.1k
2015: 7.7k
2017: 6.4k

Births to Mothers with no High School
2010: 7.4k
2015: 4.9k
2017: 3.9k
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  #2190  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 2:04 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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  #2191  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 1:15 PM
moorhosj moorhosj is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I don't think there are many people that believe what you've outlined. But clearly Chicago has a violent crime/homicide problem that isn't being helped by Kim Foxx, Toni Prekwinkle and the diversity above all else crowd. It's weird because those most affected by the violence are African Americans. They are voting with their feet by simply leaving the city and the region. Coddling criminals is making it worse.
Has crime gotten better or worse since Foxx became State’s Attorney? I see lots of criticism of how her policies lead to more criminals roaming the streets, but I haven’t seen any data that actually shows it.
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  #2192  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 1:23 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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There has been a spike in carjackings since she basically started letting carjackers go free. Her lax response to these violent crimes has clearly encouraged more youth to start committing these crimes because, hey, they aren't really going to punish me for it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chi...story,amp.html
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  #2193  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 1:43 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ Our African American Superintendent of Police definitely is asking for a tougher stance on carjackers.

I’m just glad that “criminals need to be coddled” Buttwinkle didn’t get elected. Too much of Cook County’s Government has been hijacked by a special interest group that wants criminal behavior to be treated like its the same thing as skin color—an immutable trait that one can get discriminated against for.

Look at how they want to outlaw looking at criminal records as a part of tenant applications for apartments because they want to end the “legacy of Jim Crow”. This is the kind of stuff that increases segregation. People will simply vote with their feet and raise up their guard even further against some minority groups the more they try to pull this nonsense.
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  #2194  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 1:49 PM
moorhosj moorhosj is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
There has been a spike in carjackings since she basically started letting carjackers go free. Her lax response to these violent crimes has clearly encouraged more youth to start committing these crimes because, hey, they aren't really going to punish me for it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chi...story,amp.html
From your article it looks like there was a change in state law that had an impact:
Quote:
As a result of a change in the state law that took effect at the start of 2016, a carjacking charge no longer triggers for those under 18 an automatic transfer to adult court, where the consequences are often far more severe.
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  #2195  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 1:57 PM
moorhosj moorhosj is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Too much of Cook County’s Government has been hijacked by a special interest group that wants criminal behavior to be treated like its the same thing as skin color—an immutable trait that one can get discriminated against for.
Try flipping this statement on its head. Isn’t it possible that those people’s skin color is part of the reason they have a criminal record in the first place? The data shows us that black people have a much higher likelihood of being arrested, charged and convicted than white people doing the same things (like selling drugs).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.006a0c4a81b4
Quote:
Blacks are far more likely to be arrested for selling or possessing drugs than whites, even though whites use drugs at the same rate. And whites are actually more likely to sell drugs
If you accept that reality, then it changes the conversation.
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  #2196  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 2:01 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ Even accepting that, criminal activity is not an immutable trait. You still have to commit the crime.

If I don’t want somebody who has committed crime living on my property, I have that right.

To simply disallow me from viewing a criminal record doesn’t fix anything. All it will ever achieve is to make people discriminate more.
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  #2197  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 3:53 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by moorhosj View Post
From your article it looks like there was a change in state law that had an impact:
That had an impact too, but Foxx has also been pushing those policies within her office. You can't untangle the movements of madigan, Cullerton, Preckwinkle, Berrios, et Al. They are all pushing the same agenda which is corrupt back channels for their rich clients, appeasement for the lower class, and the shaft for everyone else.
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  #2198  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I don't think there are many people that believe what you've outlined. But clearly Chicago has a violent crime/homicide problem that isn't being helped by Kim Foxx, Toni Prekwinkle and the diversity above all else crowd. It's weird because those most affected by the violence are African Americans. They are voting with their feet by simply leaving the city and the region. Coddling criminals is making it worse.
Given the most recent election where candidates who support criminal justice reform received over 50% of the vote and the stance of the mayor-elect who supports Kim Foxx, I would tend to disagree with you. Prioritizing what crimes to prosecute and providing more fairness in the system is not coddling criminals it is smart.
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  #2199  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 4:00 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ If "smart" means more cars will be jacked, more thefts, and more teens will be murdered, then you sure are right

Nobody in history stopped committing crime because a hug awaited them in the end
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  #2200  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 4:37 PM
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Depriving people of the opportunity to obtain jobs, housing, and other necessities for life, with an overly punitive criminal justice system, leaves them with nothing to lose which results in them recidivating. The profound absurdity of suggesting we should waste time and money locking up people for driving on suspended licenses when the majority of the time suspension occurred for a financial cause rather than reckless drive is a prime example of a broken system. Often those driving on a suspended license are, in many situations, doing so to get to work. If you want to guarantee the perpetuation of crime, continue with the status quo.
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