Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[biguc]

^^Same thing my parents did, Riverman. It's just showing basic consideration to others.

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Berlin and Barcelona are incredibly different cities than Toronto - more mid level densities over a larger area, while Toronto is a small area of extremely high density surrounded by a very large area of low density suburbs. Toronto is suited for fewer, but much busier subway lines, while Berlin and Barcelona are suited for a larger network of lower use subway lines.

You have the cause and effect backwards with respect to Toronto. Toronto density follows the subway lines. If Toronto had a better metro your density would be more spread around--probably still in highrise nodes thanks to zoning, but we wouldn't see the kind of ridiculous density that's been happening on the Yonge line. That's for better or for worse, since we all like skyscrapers, but Toronto's subway is suitable for Toronto with half its present population, and the entire downtown relief line to east, west and beyond should have been completed ten years ago, plus Shepard west, plus Eglington.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by buzzg

^All fair points. And yeah, if you can't fit behind the yellow line you shouldn't be be allowed on, period.

Absolutely. It's actually in the Highway Traffic Act that no person can be blocking the drivers vision to the left, right or forward. Therefore the yellow line. Some operators ignore that rule, be it through wanting not to leave people behind, or not having been taught correctly in training. I know I wasn't, but that was almost 21 years ago so I cannot comment on today.

The aisle must be kept clear at all times. If that stroller cannot be out of the aisle, it isn't riding with me. There are 2 spots for wheelchairs/scooters on all buses. I won't allow more than 2 at a time. I will ask people to make room for wheelchairs or other people with physical disabilities. If they choose not to do so, my hands are tied. No one currently can be forced to give up their space on the bus. Even if WT makes it policy it still can't be forced. Would take a Highway Traffic Act amendment or an act of Parliament.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

There are 2 spots for wheelchairs/scooters on all buses. I won't allow more than 2 at a time. I will ask people to make room for wheelchairs or other people with physical disabilities. If they choose not to do so, my hands are tied. No one currently can be forced to give up their space on the bus. Even if WT makes it policy it still can't be forced. Would take a Highway Traffic Act amendment or an act of Parliament.

That's good, but I have experienced many operators who allow 3 wheeled 'vehicles' on the bus of various combinations.

And if there many standees, that's when, in one instance, I get OFF the bus and wait for another. Having a noisy/screaming toddler just adds to my PTSD-like symptoms.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

That's good, but I have experienced many operators who allow 3 wheeled 'vehicles' on the bus of various combinations.

And if there many standees, that's when, in one instance, I get OFF the bus and wait for another. Having a noisy/screaming toddler just adds to my PTSD-like symptoms.

Those are allowed. If it can get on the bus unassisted, it's allowed.

On screaming toddlers, I can only take so much too. If it's out of hand something will be said, and I've been instructed by management exactly what to do. Babies are another story though. I love crying babies. Ever since I saved the life of one about 5 years back. Crying babies make me extremely happy.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

On the topic of riders being asses. I regularly see people sitting in the aisle seat with their bag, feet, whatever in the window seat. Being like "oh look at me, its full here. you cant sit". I'll be the guy to come get in one of those seats.

The seat pitch Winnipeg Transit runs makes those inside seats almost impossible to use for moderately tall people. Instead of making assumptions try asking the person to let you sit there.

As for the strollers and the yellow line, what concerned me is when a driver let on the extra stroller and it essentially is parked on the "good" side of the yellow line but just barely across. Separate from the issue with the blocked aisle it would seem to be a safety concern for the child in the stroller is it seemingly has potential to become a projectile and exit the front window if the bus needed to brake hard in an emergency situation.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The seat pitch Winnipeg Transit runs makes those inside seats almost impossible to use for moderately tall people. Instead of making assumptions try asking the person to let you sit there.

Most people are fine. But for example, from a couple weeks back. There is a shorter person with fancy sunglasses on and a shopping bag full of new clothes. Sitting in the aisle seat, with their bag and legs using the other seat. Ya I'll be an ass to you about it when it's standing room only. If the bus is empty, sure. When it's afternoon rush, nope. It goes to a deeper level of how people should act in public.

I'm 6'2" and lanky, so I know all about the limited leg room in some of those seats!

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The seat pitch Winnipeg Transit runs makes those inside seats almost impossible to use for moderately tall people. Instead of making assumptions try asking the person to let you sit there.

As for the strollers and the yellow line, what concerned me is when a driver let on the extra stroller and it essentially is parked on the "good" side of the yellow line but just barely across. Separate from the issue with the blocked aisle it would seem to be a safety concern for the child in the stroller is it seemingly has potential to become a projectile and exit the front window if the bus needed to brake hard in an emergency situation.

Any wheeled device that isn't secured in the bus is a concern for me, especially with someone in it. I believe that it should be secured with the restraint system in the bus if it has wheels and carries a person. Some people try to leave their stroller in a folded up seat spot, and then proceed to sit somewhere else on the bus! But most operators are afraid to say anything for fear of repercussions, both from passengers and management.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Riverman

We used to use an Umbroller on the bus, fold it up an hold the kids on our laps. Trouble is no one gives a fuck about anybody else anymore.

No just a certain segment of the population, you know the ones who complain the loudest but contribute the least!

[cslusarc]

I've mentioned this before, but I'm a mildly mobility impaired person suffering from Ankylosing Spondylitis and Psoriatic Arthritis who uses a not easily collapsable 4-wheeled rollator style walker. When I actually go out and use transit it's an such an infrequent occasion because I now live in South St Clement's that I try to maximize my outing and that usually mean I fill my walker's pouch and handles up with my purchases.
That CBC article really hits the point that since all of Winnipeg Transit weekday daytime, evening and weekend service and an increasing percentage of weekday peak services have been operated with low floor busses mobility impaired persons have been relying on regular Winnipeg Transit busses more and more. However, I don't feel that Winnipeg Transit is prepared for the volume of people who need to use the priority seating area. I think that Winnipeg Transit should:
- increase the percentage of tip up and longitudinal seats on the lower level on both new and existing busses,
- widen the aisles to allow walker users with wide walkers like me to use the longitudinal seating near the rear door if necessary,
- and engage a policy advising stoller users to collapse their strollers before boarding.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Most people are fine. But for example, from a couple weeks back. There is a shorter person with fancy sunglasses on and a shopping bag full of new clothes. Sitting in the aisle seat, with their bag and legs using the other seat. Ya I'll be an ass to you about it when it's standing room only. If the bus is empty, sure. When it's afternoon rush, nope. It goes to a deeper level of how people should act in public.

Back in 1989-90 when I first moved out and was working short term office jobs, I was eligible for EI.

Ever since I was almost 3 yrs. old in '69 I always wanted an organ or synthesizer to play along with the music on the radio.

So when in the early 90s cheap electronic keyboards became available for a few hundred dollars, I spotted a Casio at the Southwood (?) Mall K-Mart for about $430.



^^^ similar to the one I bought, but mine was a bit larger. I can't remember the model #.

Of course if I had asked my Dad if he could come to the store with me to haul the keybard back to my place he would have said "why are you buying that? You can't afford it." So I had to got it alone. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

So I went back the next day, consciously deciding to go on the 60 Pembina (the 62 didn't stop at McGillivray back then) during the off-peak hours.

I got the keyboard home and I remember it was late Spring/early Summer of '89 so there was lots of room.

Couldn't do that nowadays.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Back in 1989-90 when I first moved out and was working short term office jobs, I was eligible for EI.

Ever since I was almost 3 yrs. old in '69 I always wanted an organ or synthesizer to play along with the music on the radio.

So when in the early 90s cheap electronic keyboards became available for a few hundred dollars, I spotted a Casio at the Southwood (?) Mall K-Mart for about $430.



^^^ similar to the one I bought, but mine was a bit larger. I can't remember the model #.

Of course if I had asked my Dad if he could come to the store with me to haul the keybard back to my place he would have said "why are you buying that? You can't afford it." So I had to got it alone. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

So I went back the next day, consciously deciding to go on the 60 Pembina (the 62 didn't stop at McGillivray back then) during the off-peak hours.

I got the keyboard home and I remember it was late Spring/early Summer of '89 so there was lots of room.

Couldn't do that nowadays.

I've seen someone bring a standing bass in a hard case on a bus before. If there's room, you can bring it.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by cslusarc

I don't feel that Winnipeg Transit is prepared for the volume of people who need to use the priority seating area. I think that Winnipeg Transit should:
- increase the percentage of tip up and longitudinal seats on the lower level on both new and existing busses

I suspect the bus manufacturers are actually following the ADA (US) guidelines as to my knowledge Canada does not have the same level of guidelines. My very limited understand of how they operate is they normal set aside a specific percentage of space to meet accessibility concerns. Looking at the current capacity on Winnipeg Transit I would guess it is at or above those levels. For comparison only about 0.4% of the seating in MTS Centre would be considered accessible while the seating space on a transit bus for accessible use would be around 12.5%.

As I mentioned previously the issue is deeper than just Winnipeg Transit needing to increase accessible space for riders but that its nearing a tipping point of needing to increase space for all riders.

[esquire]

With the congestion issues on WT buses it's a little surprising that they haven't begun to rely on higher-capacity vehicles to a greater degree. Articulated buses should be a routine sight on major routes like the SW Transitway... greater capacity but still only one driver to pay for.

[CoryB]

^^ The upfront cost of the articulated buses is likely holding WT back on that. There was likely political pressure the pick up the heavily discounted refurbished ones that they have.

[esquire]

^ The cheap beaters are good to plug in gaps but I don't know that 40 foot buses are a good long term solution for major routes, particularly at rush hour. The up front costs of an artic. bus might be higher, but the labour savings have to factor into this to some extent.

For example, 2 60 foot buses and 3 40 foot buses will run roughly the same number of passengers, yet you're only paying for two drivers with the 60 foot buses.

[robertocarlos]

Originally Posted by CoryB

For comparison only about 0.4% of the seating in MTS Centre would be considered accessible while the seating space on a transit bus for accessible use would be around 12.5%.

I was very disappointed when TNSE removed the accessible seating in section 112.

[CoryB]

I think the articulated bus argument needs further study. In addition to higher passengers moved and lower labour costs I would expect the maintenance costs are slightly higher on an articulated bus. The other question that needs to be answered is how do the operate in the winter months? Are there opportunities to work with New Flyer to solve any cold weather issues and perhaps drive those maintenance costs down?

I have said it before, with New Flyer manufacturer based here Winnipeg should become a showcase for bus transit, including bus rapid transit.

[Gm0ney]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I think the articulated bus argument needs further study. In addition to higher passengers moved and lower labour costs I would expect the maintenance costs are slightly higher on an articulated bus. The other question that needs to be answered is how do the operate in the winter months? Are there opportunities to work with New Flyer to solve any cold weather issues and perhaps drive those maintenance costs down?

I have said it before, with New Flyer manufacturer based here Winnipeg should become a showcase for bus transit, including bus rapid transit.

They run those articulated buses in Ottawa so winter shouldn't be a problem. The buses were getting stuck during that blizzard they had in February...but I think they got 18" of snow in a few hours. Pretty sure our buses would be screwed under those circumstances as well...

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by esquire

With the congestion issues on WT buses it's a little surprising that they haven't begun to rely on higher-capacity vehicles to a greater degree. Articulated buses should be a routine sight on major routes like the SW Transitway... greater capacity but still only one driver to pay for.

That was the promise. Bill Menzies, former WT planner said years ago that we'd actually need just the same numbers of buses.

I blame HIM for the mess we've been in.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I've seen someone bring a standing bass in a hard case on a bus before. If there's room, you can bring it.

I've seen WSO members on the 18 with their instrument cases.