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  #21  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2016, 6:05 PM
Jets4Life Jets4Life is offline
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Trump says he won't do that anymore unless we pay.

Trump will not get elected, so it's an irrelevant point.
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  #22  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2016, 3:50 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is online now
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This wouldn't be a Province vs Province thing. So stop all your 'we'll pollute your water' mumbo jumbo.

It would be Canada vs USA locally. Water would also be scooped up and shipped in large quantities, for profit, to areas of the world were water is scarce. People from both countries would be pumping Lake Superior water to plants for bottling, etc. There would need to be agreements on water use, which would of course be broken, around the world.

In the USA, places like California, Nevada, Arizona, etc, would be the first to dry up. Ocean water desalinization would become very popular, but expensive of course. Long water pipelines from great lakes would be posed just like all the oil pipelines.

This is where wars will break out when countries like Russia start exerting their pressure on surrounding countries.

Not talking tomorrow, but a couple hundred years from now when the population of Earth explodes even further. Food is scarce, same with water. Need water to grow crops for peoples foods. Snowball effect takes hold and the consumer society starts to crumble.

Water being the next great world commodity is real.
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  #23  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2016, 5:21 PM
SkydivePilot SkydivePilot is offline
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I couldn't agree more with Bomberjet.

Moreover, Once the carbon count reaches 450 ppm, natural feedbacks will kick in. (2C --- AVERAGE --- global temperature rise from 2008.) Simply put, the train will have left the station. (Presently, we're at 413 ppm and during the winter of '07-08, we were at 385 ppm.) We WILL blow by 500 ppm before we stop this juggernaut.

During the Industrial Revolution, our planet was at 275 ppm; things are picking up speed.

In the Western World, Latin America, Mexico and the Southern States will dry up. (Not to mention other locales within the Tropical/Subtropical regions worldwide.)
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  #24  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2016, 2:49 AM
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
If fresh water became as rich a commodity as Oil, how long would it take for Winnipeg to surpass Calgary and Edmonton in population? How long would it take for Brandon to surpass 100,000 people. How long would a Northern Manitoba city become the boom town that Fort McMurray was for the past 20 years?

hmmm. It might take a year. A decade. Or ten. Or maybe a few centuries. Perhaps eons.
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  #25  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2016, 8:14 AM
Jets4Life Jets4Life is offline
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This wouldn't be a Province vs Province thing. So stop all your 'we'll pollute your water' mumbo jumbo.

It would be Canada vs USA locally. Water would also be scooped up and shipped in large quantities, for profit, to areas of the world were water is scarce. People from both countries would be pumping Lake Superior water to plants for bottling, etc. There would need to be agreements on water use, which would of course be broken, around the world.

In the USA, places like California, Nevada, Arizona, etc, would be the first to dry up. Ocean water desalinization would become very popular, but expensive of course. Long water pipelines from great lakes would be posed just like all the oil pipelines.

This is where wars will break out when countries like Russia start exerting their pressure on surrounding countries.

Not talking tomorrow, but a couple hundred years from now when the population of Earth explodes even further. Food is scarce, same with water. Need water to grow crops for peoples foods. Snowball effect takes hold and the consumer society starts to crumble.

Water being the next great world commodity is real.

The population of the World is currently at 7.4 billion. Far too many people live in this World.

Last edited by Jets4Life; Aug 15, 2016 at 9:59 AM.
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  #26  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2016, 4:22 PM
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I am skeptical of most of these predictions. History is littered with what were once accepted demographic and climate predictions that were widely accepted and now look foolish. The populations of Europe and Japan are already falling and N. America is growing solely due to immigration. Birthrates are falling almost everywhere. Ag tech has meant that the food shortages predicted for decades have never materialized. In fact there are billions less hungry people now than there were a few decades ago.

I can remember when scientists were saying that another ice age was coming. They also said the Prairies was facing perennial droughts, the Antarctic ice cap would melt, polar bears would become extinct and we would have more hurricanes. So far the reverse has happened on all of these.

Edit: Also desalination tech has really progressed. There should be plenty of water for drinking at least. It may never be feasible for irrigation.
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  #27  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2016, 8:46 PM
Wolf13 Wolf13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
If fresh water became as rich a commodity as Oil, how long would it take for Winnipeg to surpass Calgary and Edmonton in population? How long would it take for Brandon to surpass 100,000 people. How long would a Northern Manitoba city become the boom town that Fort McMurray was for the past 20 years?
Never, unless our NDP/Liberal SJW twitches stop kicking in and getting in the way of success.

Don't you dare utter that dirty p-word!
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  #28  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 12:25 AM
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The population of the World is currently at 7.4 billion. Far too many people live in this World.
Actually, we still produce more food than what we can consume on a global scale. We just do a really bad job of distributing our resources.

Of course, the smartest 'solution' to your hypothesis would be to wipe out Americans and Canadians because we consume and waste the most per capita.
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 12:33 AM
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Actually, we still produce more food than what we can consume on a global scale. We just do a really bad job of distributing our resources.

Of course, the smartest 'solution' to your hypothesis would be to wipe out Americans and Canadians because we consume and waste the most per capita.
We are wiping out species of animals at an alarming rate. The vast majority of the population does don have access to clean drinking water, health care, sanitation, and the freedom to say what they think.

Canadian middle class residents are considered in the top 1% when it comes to quality of life, and standard of living. It's only getting worse. We really do not have an accurate picture of how the world has changed over the last 25 years, until we start living in countries where close to the entire population lives in absolute poverty.

Just look at the Olympic Games in Rio as an example of the negative effects of overpopulation. Pollution, crime, lack of sanitary conditions, zika virus, etc.
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 3:40 AM
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We are wiping out species of animals at an alarming rate. The vast majority of the population does don have access to clean drinking water, health care, sanitation, and the freedom to say what they think.

Canadian middle class residents are considered in the top 1% when it comes to quality of life, and standard of living. It's only getting worse. We really do not have an accurate picture of how the world has changed over the last 25 years, until we start living in countries where close to the entire population lives in absolute poverty.

Just look at the Olympic Games in Rio as an example of the negative effects of overpopulation. Pollution, crime, lack of sanitary conditions, zika virus, etc.
You're correct with you're first paragraph, but that is not due to overpopulation, but corruption. As far as food production, if we replaced coffee with food crops, most central and south American countries could throw food away at the rate that we do. I've done missionary work in Africa, Mexico, Cuba and Guatemala, and I can tell you, the so-called 1% are an absolute blight on the rest of the world.
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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 4:52 AM
Treesplease Treesplease is offline
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You're correct with you're first paragraph, but that is not due to overpopulation, but corruption. As far as food production, if we replaced coffee with food crops, most central and south American countries could throw food away at the rate that we do. I've done missionary work in Africa, Mexico, Cuba and Guatemala, and I can tell you, the so-called 1% are an absolute blight on the rest of the world.
Whoa!!!!
I'm ok with crapping on oil, the 1%, and overweight North Americans but lay off Coffee.

Its been a while but I have a vague recollection that food wastage in the developing world (including Russia in this) due to inadequate storage facilities and pests like rats led to far more spoilage (of the raw product) of food than the developed world. That North Americans waste far more finished or table ready food - I have no doubt.
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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 5:02 AM
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You're correct with you're first paragraph, but that is not due to overpopulation, but corruption.
Both issues are part of the problem, yes.
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 6:36 AM
Jets4Life Jets4Life is offline
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You're correct with you're first paragraph, but that is not due to overpopulation, but corruption. As far as food production, if we replaced coffee with food crops, most central and south American countries could throw food away at the rate that we do. I've done missionary work in Africa, Mexico, Cuba and Guatemala, and I can tell you, the so-called 1% are an absolute blight on the rest of the world.
Yeah, human beings have nothing to do with pollution, deforestation, depletion of natural resources (especially water), invasive species, viral epidemics, and toxic levels of fecal matter in much of the bays and freshwater lakes in many countries. Not to mention the extinction of a significant proportion of the World's mammals. Have you seen what is going on in Europe? Millions of people from all over the World are migrating through Europe, trying to seek refuge. They are blocking highways, ripping open semi trailers, and throwing rocks at the drivers. How many of these people are Syrian refugees? 5%? 1%?

The influx of people we are seeing in Europe is a direct result of the population explosion, and the inability of Western Democracy to stop it, as the migrants, often from places where there is not even enough to eat most of the time, let alone jobs and housing, are coming in droves in search of a better life, even though these countries cannot absorb them, as it is a massive strain on their social services.

The UK left the European Union mainly due to this. Luckily we in North America have a huge Ocean separating us from the less fortunate. My worst fear is one country is going to elect a totalitarian regime that will make Hitler and the National Socialists look like saints. Would anyone on this forum have honestly predicted a decade ago that a massive percentage of Americans would support an incompetent, bigoted, and divisive man like Donald Trump? The 2016 US election looks like a better produced episode of the Jerry Springer show.

I ahve a sad feeling that some of the posters who are dismissing my points as ridiculous, have no idea about the history of North American/European nations. Maybe they are in denial. I can't ever recall the American voting public making a hate-filled nutcase, a serious contender for the Presidency. I mean there are riots in the streets along racial lines even worse than what went down in the 60s. And of course, none of this is due to overpopulation, or the strain on the World's resources. Americans must be doing it due to bad weather....
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 3:59 PM
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
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The influx of people we are seeing in Europe is a direct result of the population explosion, and the inability of Western Democracy to stop it, as the migrants, often from places where there is not even enough to eat most of the time, let alone jobs and housing, are coming in droves in search of a better life, even though these countries cannot absorb them, as it is a massive strain on their social services.
Really? It has nothing to do with the wars in the Middle East, and the aftermath of the power vacuum brought about with the toppling of Dictators? Events set in motion by the West?

Quote:
I ahve a sad feeling that some of the posters who are dismissing my points as ridiculous, have no idea about the history of North American/European nations.
Upwards of 20 million people in Europe were classified as displaced in 1945, in the aftermath of WW2. Many were resettled; and quite a few were resettled in North America. Including relatives of many people that post on this site. Perhaps you might also crack open those history books.
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 6:02 PM
James Gablan James Gablan is offline
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Much of the global population problem has already been solved. Globally births peaked in the late 1980's. Globally the fertility rate is now just a little over the replacement rate and is still falling. The population continues to grow because the people in their prime dying years (the elderly) did most of their dying in the early 20th century when they were young. The baby boomers and subsequent generations delayed their prime dying years until they were actually elderly. This has caused a one time blip in the population growth rates as births remained high but stable for the past 30 years while the number of deaths actually decreased, despite the rising population. This trend however, cannot go on forever because at the end of the day we are all mortal. Over the next couple of decades the number of people dying every year is going to increase dramatically putting the breaks on population growth. it seems likely that population growth will come to a stop sometime around the 2060's.

Water, unlike oil, is not destroyed in the process of using it. If water become expensive people will simply clean and reuse it. There will be no water wars.
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 10:13 PM
Jets4Life Jets4Life is offline
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Really? It has nothing to do with the wars in the Middle East, and the aftermath of the power vacuum brought about with the toppling of Dictators? Events set in motion by the West? Upwards of 20 million people in Europe were classified as displaced in 1945, in the aftermath of WW2. Many were resettled; and quite a few were resettled in North America. Including relatives of many people that post on this site. Perhaps you might also crack open those history books.
Excellent post, Molson.



That post was well thought out, and I present you with this image to show my appreciation.

Last edited by Jets4Life; Aug 16, 2016 at 11:01 PM.
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 10:18 PM
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Much of the global population problem has already been solved. Globally births peaked in the late 1980's. Globally the fertility rate is now just a little over the replacement rate and is still falling.
That is only true in European countries.

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The population continues to grow because the people in their prime dying years (the elderly) did most of their dying in the early 20th century when they were young. The baby boomers and subsequent generations delayed their prime dying years until they were actually elderly.
Not sure if serious....

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This trend however, cannot go on forever because at the end of the day we are all mortal. Over the next couple of decades the number of people dying every year is going to increase dramatically putting the breaks on population growth. it seems likely that population growth will come to a stop sometime around the 2060's.
The population will continue to increase dramatically, since the vast majority of the increase is by developing nations in Africa, Middle East, India, South America, etc. What you speak of, can only be applied to a few countries in Europe and the Far East. In North America, the population will likely continue due to immigration rates.

Last edited by Jets4Life; Aug 17, 2016 at 1:18 AM.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 11:05 PM
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One of the UN's population prediction scenarios see the world population beginning to fall by mid-century. I think this is realistic. Birthrates are below replacement in most big countries including Europe, the U.S., China, Brazil, Russia, Japan... Poor countries face either disaster (war/famine) or progress (which always means falling birthrates). For example, demographers are predicting Nigeria will have nearly a billion people by the end of the century. Not a chance.
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 1:14 AM
Jets4Life Jets4Life is offline
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One of the UN's population prediction scenarios see the world population beginning to fall by mid-century. I think this is realistic. Birthrates are below replacement in most big countries including Europe, the U.S., China, Brazil, Russia, Japan... Poor countries face either disaster (war/famine) or progress (which always means falling birthrates). For example, demographers are predicting Nigeria will have nearly a billion people by the end of the century. Not a chance.
The World population is expected to reach 9.7 billion people by 2050, and 11.2 billion people by 2100. There is no reliable sources that predict the population will fall (I assume you mean decline) by 2050.

http://www.un.org/en/development/des...15-report.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...0-boom-africa/

You are basing your argument over things you predict will happen. How do you know that Nigeria will not reach one billion people by 2100?

Birthrates are still above replacement in the USA, China, and Brazil.

Birthrates have tended to actually increase in times of political instability, especially in developing countries. Since education and birth control policies are neglected, the birth rate tends to increase faster. This has been happening in Africa since World War 2.
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 2:20 AM
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The World population is expected to reach 9.7 billion people by 2050, and 11.2 billion people by 2100. There is no reliable sources that predict the population will fall (I assume you mean decline) by 2050.

http://www.un.org/en/development/des...15-report.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...0-boom-africa/

You are basing your argument over things you predict will happen. How do you know that Nigeria will not reach one billion people by 2100?

Birthrates are still above replacement in the USA, China, and Brazil.

Birthrates have tended to actually increase in times of political instability, especially in developing countries. Since education and birth control policies are neglected, the birth rate tends to increase faster. This has been happening in Africa since World War 2.
As I said one of the UN's scenarios (lower end birthrate) predicts the peak mid century. All I am saying is that I subscribe to the low end scenario. You obviously do not.

Regarding Nigeria, I just can't see that kind of growth without an implosion

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