Calgary Transit Fantasy Thread

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

The poor design of stops in this city plays a large role in the negative perception of buses (and people yearning for streetcars as if they are magic). If the stop looks ghetto, your impression is already poor before you even step onto the vehicle.

• If bus stops had better lighting, landscaping, shelter and furniture, potential passengers will feel more comfortable
• Each stop should include an informative and clear map of the routes available at the stop. If you're walking along the street and notice a bus stop, what if you could take it and save 10 minutes walking to your destination? How the hell would you know without going online? This information needs to be evident and communicated properly
• Unique (large) signage, symbols and lighting should attract potential users from blocks away. A simple aluminum post with a tiny blue and white sign is not enough. They need to "pop" out at you, not blend in with the sky and parking signage
• Add digital boards with GPS-enabled "next bus" time tracking. If these boards are too much trouble, at least have some sort of indication that a bus will actually arrive at the stop if you wait long enough. I once waited for nearly an hour at an industrial park stop waiting for a bus before realizing that it was a seasonal stop with no service at the time. A simple LED with a "yes" or "no" will be enough for most people, allowing them to make a decision between waiting or finding another method of arriving at their destination

Make a few simple changes to the worst part of taking the bus (waiting at a stop) and the gap in attractiveness between bus and streetcar will narrow significantly.

I think you nailed it! To me these improvements don't seem too expensive with the technology we have. But I guess I shouldn't talk, Calgary transit can't even get a fare card implemented.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I actually think that shows perfectly why buses suck - there's seemingly dozens of routes there from three different operators, presumably with lots of overlap and weird scheduling. It looks very confusing. With a rail based system, because the infrastructure is expensive and fixed, you have far fewer routes and it is much simpler to know where and when it goes.

It is confusing, but the HK example is better than our "Bus symbol and bus number with single neighbourhood description" signs.

However, design has come a long way since those HK signs were created. You can draw bus routes on a map in the same style that a train or streetcar route is drawn, but currently you get these crazy little lines that take forever to understand.

[CalgaryAlex]

Also, I don't understand why some bus stops get to be "nice" with a shelter, some are "tolerable" with a dirty bench, and some are "complete shit" with a simple sign and a mud hole to stand beside.

There should be a certain standard all stops are held to (while taking into consideration the amount of space available). There's no reason why someone commuting home from an industrial park should be standing in the rain or trying to stay upright on an icy hillside while someone commuting from their neighbourhood gets a shelter and bench to sit on.

It's inconsistency that plays a large part in making taking the bus a pain in the ass.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I think you nailed it! To me these improvements don't seem too expensive with the technology we have. But I guess I shouldn't talk, Calgary transit can't even get a fare card implemented.

Vancouver hasn't been able to get 'tap out' to work on buses for their $200 million system yet, and is eliminating fare zones because of it - I for one am proud we only wasted $10 million!

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Also, I don't understand why some bus stops get to be "nice" with a shelter, some are "tolerable" with a dirty bench, and some are "complete shit" with a simple sign and a mud hole to stand beside.

There should be a certain standard all stops are held to (while taking into consideration the amount of space available). There's no reason why someone commuting home from an industrial park should be standing in the rain or trying to stay upright on an icy hillside while someone commuting from their neighbourhood gets a shelter and bench to sit on.

It's inconsistency that plays a large part in making taking the bus a pain in the ass.

The marketing contractor gets to make these decisions I think, and it is solely based on if they think they can sell the marketing.

[DizzyEdge]

Some Winnipeg bus stops:


http://greenactioncentre.ca/


www.alamy.com


http://www.smashingmagazine.com/stre...-signs-part-4/

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The marketing contractor gets to make these decisions I think, and it is solely based on if they think they can sell the marketing.

Obviously it's time for that arrangement to end. An advertising company should not make decisions which affect the livelihoods of transit users in this city. If Calgary is keen on designing a world-class transit system in all respects, they should be motivated to improving this portion of it.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Some Winnipeg bus stops:

Bam, I love it. Clear, stands out... that's the direction we should be taking.

[MalcolmTucker]

Obviously the city thinks it is better to subsidize the system less, or have lower fares, than have bus shelters everywhere. Only really one option: write a letter. I think TransitCamp is still active, they might be able to get behind this.

Also, there was talk of a citizens service standards panel at one point?

[DizzyEdge]

With the caveat that Winnipeg doesn't have LRT, so bus is their primary transit.

[RyLucky]

The Netherlands for years now:

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

The Netherlands for years now:

Exactly, this has been done in numerous places. So... I guess the "fantasy" here is that Calgary Transit somehow gets their shit together and implements a transit system worthy of a large, ambitious city in the year 2015.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Exactly, this has been done in numerous places. So... I guess the "fantasy" here is that Calgary Transit somehow gets their shit together and implements a transit system worthy of a large, ambitious city in the year 2015.

Totally agree. While I feel there is a constant march of tiny improvements the past 10 years that make a difference with little fanfare (improved train time screens at stops, better mapping, better app, improved websites, LRT station improvements and athetics etc.) All of this seems to be done as cautiously and slowly as possible.

It's almost as if Calgary Transit doesn't want you to ride their buses sometimes. Not that it is entirely all their fault, they are often hamstrung by mandatory service minimums eating up budget on stupid routes and the whole coverage vs. efficiency balance issue that many transit organization have.

It just feels the progress - or lack there of - is routed in a cultural aspect of CT. As if the various committees and people in charge have never left the city to see what is happening elsewhere, talked to a young person, or imagine a world where CT is actually the best choice for all forms, not just LRT, but buses too. This isn't quite fair, I know they are trying with various customer committees, but progress is slow and the cities evolves quicker than they will be able to.

My pet peeve is night transit. Surely an expensive and highly subsidized affair, but most other serious cities have it all over. I have seen it come up and it's a hilarious argument on council. A bunch of 40, 50 and 60 year old men debating whether young people will use it with no nuance or representation of what people actually do. Some councillors sound like they haven't talked to anyone under 30 since they were that age. As you can imagine, not a whole lot comes of their debating night transit. They are so removed from the use-cases for it, they could never champion the idea.

How can so many other cities operate high-frequency rail and buses running until 3am on weekends evenings and nights and we can only manage 1:25am as last train and no buses to speak of?

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by MasterG

My pet peeve is night transit. Surely an expensive and highly subsidized affair, but most other serious cities have it all over. I have seen it come up and it's a hilarious argument on council. A bunch of 40, 50 and 60 year old men debating whether young people will use it with no nuance or representation of what people actually do. Some councillors sound like they haven't talked to anyone under 30 since they were that age. As you can imagine, not a whole lot comes of their debating night transit. They are so removed from the use-cases for it, they could never champion the idea.

How can so many other cities operate high-frequency rail and buses running until 3am on weekends evenings and nights and we can only manage 1:25am as last train and no buses to speak of?

Not expensive at all; the study has been done and an initial late night transit system would cost all of 50 cents per Calgarian per year.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Exactly, this has been done in numerous places. So... I guess the "fantasy" here is that Calgary Transit somehow gets their shit together and implements a transit system worthy of a large, ambitious city in the year 2015.

I'd settle for a large, ambitious city in 2006.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by MasterG

My pet peeve is night transit. Surely an expensive and highly subsidized affair, but most other serious cities have it all over. I have seen it come up and it's a hilarious argument on council. A bunch of 40, 50 and 60 year old men debating whether young people will use it with no nuance or representation of what people actually do. Some councillors sound like they haven't talked to anyone under 30 since they were that age. As you can imagine, not a whole lot comes of their debating night transit. They are so removed from the use-cases for it, they could never champion the idea.

How can so many other cities operate high-frequency rail and buses running until 3am on weekends evenings and nights and we can only manage 1:25am as last train and no buses to speak of?

It reminds me of the philosophy around cycletracks: There has to be some minimum level of access before we can argue about how much or little we should fund. At the bare minimum, Calgary should have 24-hour C-train service, even if that means just one in each direction every hour between 12-5. It would only take hiring 4 drivers and maybe 4-8 security guards and a tech for a whopping total of 45-65 manhours/night. Call it 2-4 FTE positions per year. How are we not doing this in a city where you can spend hours waiting for a cab?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

It reminds me of the philosophy around cycletracks: There has to be some minimum level of access before we can argue about how much or little we should fund. At the bare minimum, Calgary should have 24-hour C-train service, even if that means just one in each direction every hour between 12-5. It would only take hiring 4 drivers and maybe 4-8 security guards and a tech for a whopping total of 45-65 manhours/night. Call it 2-4 FTE positions per year. How are we not doing this in a city where you can spend hours waiting for a cab?

Would make maintenance a lot more difficult. Really a night bus network is more suitable, not many cities offer 24/7 rail service even if they do have great night bus networks.

[JordanBerndt]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Would make maintenance a lot more difficult. Really a night bus network is more suitable, not many cities offer 24/7 rail service even if they do have great night bus networks.

To my knowledge, thought I might be wrong, the only cities in the world that do are New York, Chicago and London, and obviously, Calgary has no where near the population or density to match those.

Most cities over a million, however, do have a some sort of skeletal late-night bus system, and I think something like that could work in Calgary, with buses running every half-hour (or even 45 minutes) from Stephen Avenue and 17th alongside the LRT and BRT lines and back.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by JordanBerndt

To my knowledge, thought I might be wrong, the only cities in the world that do are New York, Chicago and London, and obviously, Calgary has no where near the population or density to match those.

Most cities over a million, however, do have a some sort of skeletal late-night bus system, and I think something like that could work in Calgary, with buses running every half-hour (or even 45 minutes) from Stephen Avenue and 17th alongside the LRT and BRT lines and back.

Several European cities also operate 24 hour service, but you are right it is not common with rail.

I would just be happy to have better weekend evening service, even if it's not quite 24 hours. For example, Vienna (2 million or so people btw) runs their metro with roughly CTrain hours during the week. However on Friday and Saturday nights it runs 24 hours because shockingly that's when many people go into the city centre for the nightlife.

If Calgary Transit has a public responsibility to move people around they have completely ignored this responsibility for the weekend evening crowd, numbering in the 10s of thousands. It's my number one pet peeve that many, many cities do infinitely better.

[People.talking]

Since this is a fanasty thread,how bout some street cars in the belt line and 17th ave