Converting One Way Streets to Two Way

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by freeweed

By implication you're also saying that dual right turns on red would not be allowed. Because you have to "cross" the curb lane in that situation as well.

Those are definitely legal in many places, including Calgary. Much like the dual lane left-on-red, you can tell that it's legal precisely because situations exist where signs specifically indicate that for that particular intersection, it's not.

That would be what I was implying, yes. I'm not sure where I heard that, but it stuck.

[DizzyEdge]

was at a dual or three-way left turn lane last night, with cars in front of me. Cars in the middle and right lane sat at the red, with no traffic coming on cross street, and didn't turn until it turned green.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

was at a dual or three-way left turn lane last night, with cars in front of me. Cars in the middle and right lane sat at the red, with no traffic coming on cross street, and didn't turn until it turned green.

Oh yeah, a lot of people certainly don't do it. I honk the shit out of them when behind, too.

Not much in the way of evidence though. 2 days ago I watched a car sit through an entire advanced green left turn light. It just means there are plenty of, shall we say, ill-informed drivers out there. I swear most people picked up most of their driving knowledge from their parents.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Koolfire

I'm not a huge fan of reverting the one ways back to two way roads. I would rather see other things done to reduce speeding like red light cams and even losing a lane of traffic to make sidewalks wider and/or patio space for buildings.

Using one-way streets is a way to increase the range of uses of the street, such as widening sidewalks. With most downtown streets, you have enough room for 4 lanes + 2 sidewalks. Typically that ends up as two lanes in each direction at all times, with two lanes of parking between cross streets and left turn lanes at intersections. Sometimes it's done up as two lanes in both directions, either all the time or at peak periods.

If you want to add space for other uses, you're stuck. For instance, bus lanes come at the expense of all parking. Similarly, bike lanes. Trying to get room for buses AND bikes on one street in both directions is all but impossible. But with one-way couplets, you can have one lane for cars, one for buses, one for parking/bus stops/turn lanes, and split the last between bikes and wider sidewalks.

My personal view is that you want a mix of one-way and two-way streets. For instance, a pair of one-way streets straddling a two-way street. Another option is to have a two-way street flanked by a pair of nominal two-way streets but which are only one-way for cars, with the "wrong" way direction being buses (e.g. think of 10th being westbound for cars and eastbound for buses, 11th being two-way, 12th being eastbound for cars and westbound for buses). The point being is I wouldn't rule out the possibility that one-way streets can be used as part of a wider strategy to make the city more livable - but just having them as 3-or-4-lane mini expressways is not the way they should be used either.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Oh yeah, a lot of people certainly don't do it. I honk the shit out of them when behind, too.

Not much in the way of evidence though. 2 days ago I watched a car sit through an entire advanced green left turn light. It just means there are plenty of, shall we say, ill-informed drivers out there. I swear most people picked up most of their driving knowledge from their parents.

Well folks, here it is from Alberta Transportation themselves. I emailed them last week asking about 2-3 lanes all with turn signs turning left from a one way to a one way:

Thank you for your inquiry about dual turns. The answer is yes, in the situation you describe all the turning lanes allow left turns on a red light, after stopping and if safe. Here is a link to the Use of Highway and Rules of the Road Regulation under the Traffic Safety Act: http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?pag...=9780779756209 The relevant sections are 26(4) - "unless a traffic control device otherwise directs or permits" and 54(3).

Those links don't really say anything specifically about dual turns, but regardless it appears the answer is yes. As freeweed mentioned, the fact that some intersection have no left turn on red signs on individual lanes also is a big hint of that fact.

[Calgarian]

Thanks Dizzy! much appreciated.

Now all we need to do is forward these rules to everyone in Calgary with a drivers license!

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Thanks Dizzy! much appreciated.

Now all we need to do is forward these rules to everyone in Calgary with a drivers license!

They almost need something like this sign that I just made up:

[Calgarian]

That would be helpful.

[DizzyEdge]

I have to say Alberta Transportation was pretty quick, send the email at 3 pm on Friday, had a response at 9:30am today.

[freeweed]

That's pretty cool of them. Thanks for getting an official answer.

And we now know the children cannot play in red light turn lanes.