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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
I just mean that's all we should do for now, have an ARP type document to guide development along 10th, then come back and upgrade parts of it once most of the empty lots have been built out.
Yeah, that's part of the challenge. If the majority of an area will be completely redeveloped with new sidewalks and public realm as part of redevelopment anyway, is it worth going in to rebuild or upgrade sidewalks in advance? I agree in this case it might be worth fixing the really awful sidewalks or put sidewalks in if missing altogether in advance of development to an acceptable standard. Places like around 12th ave and Macleod trail are being totally rebuilt - therefore it's not worth putting public money into new streetscapes - they'll be all new and very nice within 10 years as a result of redevelopment. 10th ave, in section could be considered in the same light. On streets like 11th and 12th aves, or 8th street that are largely built up I think the case could be made that a comprehensive overhaul of the streetscape makes more sense. If you rely on redevelopment, it would be an inconsisent patchwork.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 9:29 PM
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That's what I mean, I don't think there is much point in spending money on the N side of 10th if it could all get torn up within a year. I doubt anything is going to happen there for a few years, but for all we know there could be work underway by the end of the year.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 9:33 PM
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10th ave needs this the most, but until there is some sort of development there, or a general plan of what to develop there, I say 13th ave is the next best thing. The east half of 11th ave could also use upgrading.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 9:54 PM
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I think 13th Ave is perfect for this kind of project. The Ave is already calm and green. With this kind of development it'll encourage people to get on a bicycle and be active. It'll come together nicely with 1st Street and look good with the new central memorial park renos. I fully support these kind of projects. Looking forward to using it.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lubicon View Post
Nice idea, but $5 million for a 5 block stretch? Seems a little steep but what do I know.
Well if you consider all the people who live in the beltline and all the people who are visiting Calgary. It's not a bad way to spend $5 million. Public Realm in Calgary needs to be improved.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 10:17 PM
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10th, 13th and 17th.

10th does need improvement (as mentioned above) but 13th is perfect for this and there is a historical component to it.

It was apparently like a main street back in the early 1900's and it contains many (over 10) historic sites.

I would wait on 10th for now. I wouldn't want heavy machinery busting up all the sidewalk in the future. Maybe if people talk about it enough, it will happen.

I would also like to see a widening of the 17th avenue sidewalks in some areas where the sidewalks get really tight.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2010, 3:43 AM
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For 10th, fix the dirt "sidewalks" adjacent to undeveloped lots. I'd settle for temporary pavement until such time as development occurs along the adjacent property. That goes for any other road in the belt line too. Surely, this is going to cost less than $5 mil? Then, and only then, should something like 13th be considered.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2010, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferreth View Post
For 10th, fix the dirt "sidewalks" adjacent to undeveloped lots. I'd settle for temporary pavement until such time as development occurs along the adjacent property. That goes for any other road in the belt line too. Surely, this is going to cost less than $5 mil? Then, and only then, should something like 13th be considered.
Why is 10 Ave now so important? It has been like this for decades and is not going to improve if a sidewalk is laid.

s.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2010, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mr.steevo View Post
Why is 10 Ave now so important? It has been like this for decades and is not going to improve if a sidewalk is laid.

s.
Well, it would improve in that you would actually be able to safely and comfortably walk on sidewalks where they are currently missing.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2010, 10:39 PM
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This project is pretty cool - but has it been funded?
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2010, 11:05 PM
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This project is pretty cool - but has it been funded?
Yes, I believe it is funded through development levies. Work begins this spring.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2010, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mr.steevo View Post
Why is 10 Ave now so important? It has been like this for decades and is not going to improve if a sidewalk is laid.

s.
I'm arguing for a minimum standard - every street or avenue in the core has enough pedestrians that a basic sidewalk is justified on both sides of the road - including 10th Ave.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2010, 2:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mr.steevo View Post
Why is 10 Ave now so important? It has been like this for decades and is not going to improve if a sidewalk is laid.

s.
Because (as I mentioned before) if someone in a wheel chair parks at one of the ImPark lots on 10th Avenue, they have to go into the street to get anywhere. That is a serious, serious safety issue. People avoid 10th avenue like the plague because it is dangerous, not because it isn't on their walking path. Improved streetscapes can also attract development.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2010, 3:04 AM
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Originally Posted by fusili View Post
Because (as I mentioned before) if someone in a wheel chair parks at one of the ImPark lots on 10th Avenue, they have to go into the street to get anywhere. That is a serious, serious safety issue. People avoid 10th avenue like the plague because it is dangerous, not because it isn't on their walking path. Improved streetscapes can also attract development.
Very true. The first time I walked along 10th ave near the west end (near husky towers) was probably the last. My office gear didn't fare so well throught the mud, gravel and slush.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2010, 8:42 PM
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Hi,

I should have been more specific in my question. I was responding to this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferreth View Post
Then, and only then, should something like 13th be considered.
Expecting paved sidewalks downtown isn't unreasonable, but isn't directly related to the beautification of another area. If 10 Ave was a priority for the City and the citizens it would have be paved decades ago. Do I think 10 Ave needs pave sidewalks? Sure, however, I am in the minority (as are you).

But, does this mean all sidewalk projects must halt until 10 Ave is completed?

s.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2010, 9:18 PM
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10th

10th ave does have some of the best views of the skyline. I say bring on 13th in the meantime.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2010, 10:30 PM
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Actually.. most of the blocks affected by this development have new sideways already.. are they going to be torn up and replaced??
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2010, 3:50 AM
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One of the major hurdles that I think 10th Ave faces from redevelopment is that the business of parking is actually probably fairly profitable. These lots may be take in $0.5 million annually in profit, so my guess is the land value alone is somewhere in the neighbourhood of $10 millionish along central 10th Avenue. Even with a 200 unit residential building, land costs would be $50,000 per unit.

I think 10th Avenue will be one of the harder areas to redevelop, as even though it is low density, the profitability of parking, plus capital apprecation is probably fairly good.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2010, 4:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.steevo View Post
Hi,

I should have been more specific in my question. I was responding to this point.



Expecting paved sidewalks downtown isn't unreasonable, but isn't directly related to the beautification of another area. If 10 Ave was a priority for the City and the citizens it would have be paved decades ago. Do I think 10 Ave needs pave sidewalks? Sure, however, I am in the minority (as are you).

But, does this mean all sidewalk projects must halt until 10 Ave is completed?

s.
This is a fair question. So, to be clear, I'm of the opinion that there should at least be sidewalks of some sort everywhere before a major upgrade of pedestrian infrastructure is considered.

As Fusili pointed out, there are safety issues with people and wheelchairs being forced out into the street to get by muddy tracks. There are people in office cloths walking about getting dirty on mud paths as kw5150 pointed out. I'll add to this that a nice 13th Ave isn't going to be remembered by tourists or me if we got muddy elsewhere in order to get there in the first place. Yes, the two projects are not related, but I'm arguing that the money that needs to be spent to fix 10th and whatever other remaining deficiencies is small. It might mean that one block of upgraded 13th gets delayed so that everywhere else you can at least count on a basic hard surface path. I'm practical to the core - I want to see functionality provided for first, then I will consider aesthetic upgrades.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2010, 5:05 AM
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I''m excited about this project, but I hope it doesn't take decades to complete. I live on 13th Ave. between the old Carl Safran/Rundle School and Connaught school ( basically between 9th and 10th streets) and I think something like this will be fantastic... we get hordes of pedestrian traffic as it is...

i do agree that 10ave is basically horrid and it needs attention badly... however I don't think that should have any bearing on the 13ave project...
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