McKnight Boulevard & John Laurie Boulevard

[dmuzika]

With the 16 Avenue N widening project nearing completion, does anyone know if there are any plans to improve McKnight Blvd, which arguably handles more traffic? I know the city used to had some plans on their website for McKnight between 12 St NE and John Laurie Blvd, which included widen to 6 lanes and smoothing out the John Laurie/McKnight corner – however the plans seem to have been removed from the website. Ultimate plans call for McKnight Blvd to be widened to 6 lanes between Deerfoot Trail and 19 St NE, with interchanges at 12 St NE/Aviation Blvd, 19 St NE/McCall Way, and Barlow Trail, however there is no timeline for this project.

McKnight Blvd is usually at a crawl during peak periods as it is one of the few E-W connectors in the north. Here’s what I think should be done to improve McKnight:

ASAP
Install LH turn signal for EB McKnight to NB Deerfoot. Traffic is required to make a left turn to access the ramp and routinely backs up into the LH thru lane during peak periods. Installing an arrow (which could be a “yield on solid green” during non-peak periods) could make that intersection safer. Innocently its #1 on the city’s list of intersections requiring signals however to date nothing has happened. The signals could be synchronized with the 12 St NE signals to optimize traffic flow.

Short Term
Widen McKnight Blvd to 6 lanes between 19 St NE and 4 St NW. What would probably happen is McKnight would remain 4 lanes across Deerfoot Trail (similar to Deerfoot Trail as it crosses Glenmore Trail) as the existing bridge probably would not allow additional lanes. Also improve the JLB/Shaganappi Trail intersection to allow for 3 through lanes each way for JLB, dual left turn lanes in all directions, and 2 through lanes for Shaganappi Trail.

Short-Medium Term
Widen McKnight & John Laurie Blvds to 6 lanes between 4 St NW and 14 St NW. Slightly smooth out the McKnight/John Laurie corner, which may involve minimal expropriation, and possibly add signals at 48 Ave NW. This could be included in the above mentioned “Short Term” project. Consideration could be made to widen John Laurie Blvd to 6 lanes between Brenner Drive and 14 St NW.

Long Term
If not done already, widen John Laurie Blvd to 6 lanes between Brenner Drive and 14 St NW. Construct interchanges at Shaganappi Trail, 12 St NE, 19 St NE, and Barlow Trail. Improve Deerfoot Trail interchange to make freeflow with 3 thru lanes each way on McKnight Blvd. Possibly close or limit access on some of the minor intersections between 14 St NW & Shaganappi Trail.

Any thoughts?

[korzym]

two years ago I saw plans to redesign mcknight and JL. A bunch of homes on the inside corner would be bought and at least a bridge put in. these plans were featured on a hallway bulletin board in the engg building at the u of c, i think it was the top floor of e block.

I'd suggest checking the city's budget for any indications of what they'll do, as crowchild is set to be renovated around 2011-12 i believe..or a year or two later. Unfortunately the 3-1-1 line is just a means to funnel legitimate inquiries like the one you have to phone operators that are clueless and will only go to the city's website, where some pages haven't been updated in over a year. A great way to give themselves the power to do whatever they wish to do on your dime.

other than that corner I'm not sure if there are plans in the pipes to improve the route you bring up. Perhaps there are provisions in future budgets for mcknight between deerfoot and JL that I can vaguely recollect, but again that would require reference to the city budget

I disagree about lights on the mcknight-deerfoot bridge. I'd rather see a larger turn off lane. Traffic goes both ways...westbound traffic would become much worse.

I like the idea of upgrading JLB and mcknight up to the sw corner of nosehill park, east-west options suck. However I don't think two parrallel highways will fly if it goes past that area

good thread, thanks for opening a discussion on the subject

[freeweed]

With the full opening of the ring road, traffic on JL/McK will be much reduced, at least according to the city. There were some pretty major plans to upgrade the entire route but from what I last remember, it's all on hold. Personally, as someone who used to use the road every time heading east, we never bother anymore. And I'm sure a lot of people will follow once the connection to Deerfoot opens.

Then again, once Crowchild is finally done in 2011/2, what major road projects are on the table? The city always seems to have one or three major ones on the go at any give time. Maybe JL/McK will be revisted then.

[mersar]

Well one of the likely next big projects is still on Crowchild, being some part of the 24th/16th/5th/Kensingten mess.

[You Need A Thneed]

12th ave interchange is pretty important right now. 19th and Barlow too. When barlow to the airport closes, that will increase the traffic on mcknight, it will probably be essential to build all three. If the airport trail tunnel isn't built, the Mcknight corridor will have to be upgraded to 4 lanes each way freeway to be able to handle the extra traffic.

Widening the stretch of McKnight between edmonton trail and 4th street nw to be three lanes each way would help out a lot too. Give it a similar treatment to what 16th Ave got, and upzone for redevelopment too, at the key intersections.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by mersar

Well one of the likely next big projects is still on Crowchild, being some part of the 24th/16th/5th/Kensingten mess.

Agreed that that where the next big roads project will be.

[Distill3d]

Not sure if it holds any merit or not, but some long time friends of my family were in talks with the city to purchase their home on McKnight and First Street NW not long ago (2 or 3 years ago) in conjunction with plans to widen McKnight from Deerfoot westbound to John Laurie. I'm unaware if the city purchased the property or not, but it seemed like most of their neighbors were in the same talks.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by freeweed

With the full opening of the ring road, traffic on JL/McK will be much reduced, at least according to the city. There were some pretty major plans to upgrade the entire route but from what I last remember, it's all on hold. Personally, as someone who used to use the road every time heading east, we never bother anymore. And I'm sure a lot of people will follow once the connection to Deerfoot opens.

Then again, once Crowchild is finally done in 2011/2, what major road projects are on the table? The city always seems to have one or three major ones on the go at any give time. Maybe JL/McK will be revisted then.

I imagine Glenmore Trail improvements might be on the radar at that point. Specifically Ogden/Shepard, the rail crossings, and Barlow Trail could all use some work. Beyond that, a great deal would depend on what the province and city work out for the SW ring road.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

I imagine Glenmore Trail improvements might be on the radar at that point. Specifically Ogden/Shepard, the rail crossings, and Barlow Trail could all use some work. Beyond that, a great deal would depend on what the province and city work out for the SW ring road.

Good point. The plans for Ogden/Shepard are already drawn up and are on the city's site somewhere, the rough plan is to realign everything so that the intersection is perpendicular and not diagonal, and Ogden will tie into 24th Street and Shepard will come off Ogden/24th south of Glenmore

[Slug]

Way back when I was commuting from University back home to Airdrie I would be in favor on a northbound turning light onto Deerfoot but now I can understand doing that would add way too much congestion onto Deerfoot. There still is a point at around 3pm (right when I usually got off) where its almost impossible to make that turn since congestion going the other way is not enough for people to stop and let you by and too much to find a gap. 64th is better but not during holiday shopping season and country hills was only 2 lanes back then Im glad they are finally getting a viable westbound to northbound alternative with the ring road however its around 10 years late.

[SubwayRev]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

12th ave interchange is pretty important right now. 19th and Barlow too. When barlow to the airport closes, that will increase the traffic on mcknight, it will probably be essential to build all three. If the airport trail tunnel isn't built, the Mcknight corridor will have to be upgraded to 4 lanes each way freeway to be able to handle the extra traffic.

Widening the stretch of McKnight between edmonton trail and 4th street nw to be three lanes each way would help out a lot too. Give it a similar treatment to what 16th Ave got, and upzone for redevelopment too, at the key intersections.

I would think that once Barlow to the airport closes, Deerfoot would absorb most of the airport-destined traffic. Only industrial park traffic and NE traffic would be using Barlow-McKight-Deerfoot-Airport Tr. The rest of the city would just head up Deerfoot, instead of now, where many people cut over to Barlow when heading to the airport.

Having said that, I think it will be an important part of Calgary's future traffic system to have McKnight be free-flow from Metis to Deerfoot.


As a side note, speaking of future city traffic plans, I would think/hope that 16th and 19th St NE intersection is on the radar for the future, leading to having free-flow from East of the city to Deerfoot.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by SubwayRev

I would think that once Barlow to the airport closes, Deerfoot would absorb most of the airport-destined traffic. Only industrial park traffic and NE traffic would be using Barlow-McKight-Deerfoot-Airport Tr. The rest of the city would just head up Deerfoot, instead of now, where many people cut over to Barlow when heading to the airport.

Having said that, I think it will be an important part of Calgary's future traffic system to have McKnight be free-flow from Metis to Deerfoot.


As a side note, speaking of future city traffic plans, I would think/hope that 16th and 19th St NE intersection is on the radar for the future, leading to having free-flow from East of the city to Deerfoot.

I don't think anyone who currently takes Deerfoot for any part of their trip to the Airport is going t otake the McKnight- Barlow route. Airport Trail is so much quicker.

There are lots of people, however, that use Barlow to get from the NE to the North. These are the people that will have to find a different route - a route that's already packed at rush hour.

Eventually, city growth in the North, and also East of the ring road will make the 47th street (flyover - won't be an interchange) and 52nd street interchange necessary, and a little bit after that, the 68th street Interchange will be required too.

[SubwayRev]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

I don't think anyone who currently takes Deerfoot for any part of their trip to the Airport is going t otake the McKnight- Barlow route. Airport Trail is so much quicker.

There are lots of people, however, that use Barlow to get from the NE to the North. These are the people that will have to find a different route - a route that's already packed at rush hour.

Eventually, city growth in the North, and also East of the ring road will make the 47th street (flyover - won't be an interchange) and 52nd street interchange necessary, and a little bit after that, the 68th street Interchange will be required too.

No, I agree that people who now take Deerfoot don't...but people who currently cross Deerfoot on Memorial, 16th, 32nd, McKnight, to Barlow to get to the airport, will no longer do that, they'll just go up Deerfoot.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by mersar

Well one of the likely next big projects is still on Crowchild, being some part of the 24th/16th/5th/Kensingten mess.

I thought the Crowchild stretch from Bow Trail through to McMahon Stadium was on the City's planning drawings as a 2015-2025 project...I could be wrong though. I should check.


EDIT: According to the City's forcasting toolbox (Link), the Crowchild upgrades are currently planned for 2025 to 2035...yikes. They should be done now IMO.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

EDIT: According to the City's forcasting toolbox (Link), the Crowchild upgrades are currently planned for 2025 to 2035...yikes. They should be done now IMO.

That's what I thought. While I agree the work should be done NOW, I don't see it on anyone's radar anytime soon.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

I imagine Glenmore Trail improvements might be on the radar at that point.

We have a winner, at least according to the most recent Transportation Infrastructure Improvement Plan brochure. Aside from interchanges currently under way or part of LRT extensions, the near future has 16th/Bowfort and then three interchanges along the Glenmore corridor at Ogden, Barlow and 52nd St, making it free flow from 37th St W to 84th St E.

Of course, this version of the plan predates the Tsuu T'ina vote on the SWRR, and the election next year will no doubt swing things one way or another, so say nothing of changes in funding. But I don't think that inner city interchanges (I can't believe I just called McKnight inner city) are on the near horizon. Many, I don't think on the long term horizon. There's a limited benefit in spending $20 million on an interchange for something like 16th Ave / 19th St just to reduce the psychic toll of a few seconds at a red light; conversely, something like Crowchild/Kensington which might provide a little higher benefit has a lot more community resistance.

[You Need A Thneed]

The Crowchild Trail interchanges were on the annual Mayor's report to Calgarians a couple of years ago as a project to go ahead soon - something along those lines anyway, it listed a budget of $300 million or something like that.

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

There's a limited benefit in spending $20 million on an interchange for something like 16th Ave / 19th St just to reduce the psychic toll of a few seconds at a red light;

16th/19th interchange would save a LOT more than a few seconds. Traffic is always backed up in both ways along 16th - sometimes causing dangerous situations where people have to almost slam on their brakes, especially westbound. I think it should be done, together with a redesign of the 16th/Deerfoot interchange, to make that one freeflow in all directions, or at least free flow involving Deerfoot and the leg of 16th East of Deerfoot.

I think once the Provincial economy picks up again, and the rings roads are well on their way, the Province will fix up some of the Deerfoot interchanges.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I thought the Crowchild stretch from Bow Trail through to McMahon Stadium was on the City's planning drawings as a 2015-2025 project...I could be wrong though. I should check.


EDIT: According to the City's forcasting toolbox (Link), the Crowchild upgrades are currently planned for 2025 to 2035...yikes. They should be done now IMO.

That's ludicrous - this should have been done 10 years ago.

Thanks for starting this thread - Mcknight-JLB definitely needs upgrading as well so there is a decent E-W route in the north.

[YYCguys]

Just getting things to flow a bit more freely on McKnight from Deerfoot to 4 Street NW will even help! There's no room to build interchanges at Centre Street, Edmonton Trail, and 4 Street NW, so I'm not sure how a free flow could even be accomplished!

Also smoothing out the curve in the McKnight/JLB transition will be welcomed!

[Koolfire]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

Just getting things to flow a bit more freely on McKnight from Deerfoot to 4 Street NW will even help! There's no room to build interchanges at Centre Street, Edmonton Trail, and 4 Street NW, so I'm not sure how a free flow could even be accomplished!

Also smoothing out the curve in the McKnight/JLB transition will be welcomed!

Smoothing out that intersection should be higher priorty. Those stairs that pedestrains use to get down to the intersection look really dangerous. I always think one slip and they would be in the intersection.

As for interchanges there are not possible, I always thought that a tunnel right under the current road with no local access between Deerfoot and west of 4th St NW would work well, leave 4 lanes on top for local access and alternate route if there is an accident in the tunnel. It would be a tight fit for 6 lanes but it might be possible without additional land. 4 plus a shoulder would be best.