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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 4:21 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by LakeLocker View Post
The idea of privilege is simple. The rich already goto the Caribbean, the idea would be something along the lines of making it possible for middle class Canadians to do the same, without loosing the tax base.
Middle class Canadians already go to the Caribbean.

(The rich go wherever they want.)
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Exactly.

It's even worse than that - as wave46 pointed out, one of the things that sun-seeking Canadians demand is bang for the buck, which implies underpaid (by Canadian standards) hotel staff, little in the way of regulations, cheap local CoL, etc.

Most people I know, by far, who go to the Caribbean for brief vacations go to destinations that are not parts of Britain, France or the Netherlands. It's not a coincidence.

My grandpa was the exception - being unilingual, he was stuck with always going to Guadeloupe or Martinique. (Back during his peak travel days, stuff down there was less developed than it is today; now it's probably less of a factor.)
Don't you partially live in Flordia?

I don't think it has to be an extreme of either or.

I directly think if people can invest in the area that equation changes.

Obviously if you are going to communist cuba the only angle is low cost, as there's no future certainty.

Florida would be at the other end of that equation, high cost high stability.

Why can't there be something in between?
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:04 PM
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This stupid thread reminds me of the time I was making a mug of Horlicks when a Caribbean co-worker exclaimed "Why is a white boy like you drinking our beverage?" lol
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:13 PM
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We already have Maple Creek as a warm winter getaway.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LakeLocker View Post
Don't you partially live in Flordia?

I don't think it has to be an extreme of either or.

I directly think if people can invest in the area that equation changes.

Obviously if you are going to communist cuba the only angle is low cost, as there's no future certainty.

Florida would be at the other end of that equation, high cost high stability.

Why can't there be something in between?
FL can also offer low cost, too. It's part of the appeal. Along with the "high stability" part.

I keep bumping into fellow Canadians down there, some of them (the "definitely not any wealthier than middle class" ones) are content with having a cheap mobile home in a somewhat white-trashy neighborhood as their snowbirding nest. This would be accessible to all but the poorest Canadians.

The reason Florida is cheaper than the Caribbean is that you can drive to it. If I left tomorrow morning, I'd be at my house there the next day in the evening, after burning some ~$100 of gas. No other "sunny" destination is that affordable to get to.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
We already have Maple Creek as a warm winter getaway.
I just did the Maple Creek to my hometown drive, so let me speak with some authority when I say that Florida is a significantly shorter and MUCH more easy/pleasant (interstates all the way) drive for us here wanting to snowbird somewhere warm.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LakeLocker View Post
The Carribbean viewpoint is they desperately need investment. Otherwise the many millions of their folk already on the continental mainland will continue to flood to miami, new york, toronto, montreal.

We have every interest in keeping our wealth within the reach of our fellow Canadians.

The idea of privilege is simple. The rich already goto the Caribbean, the idea would be something along the lines of making it possible for middle class Canadians to do the same, without loosing the tax base.

Canada and Norjway are the only two major countries that don't already have a system for going to a snow free place in winter.

Our current system is to pump money into Florida hoping that many of these people don't decide to stay up there.

We're one presidents: tax, immigration, and healtcare reform away from yet another great southern brain drain.
Sure, working from home improves things, but people generally don't uproot their families just for a few months of warm weather.

For a certain clique of people - the privileged who can work from home, have no kids and can afford to commute thousands of kilometres to actually participate in face-to-face meetings, sure, they might take advantage of it. The bigger brain drain is people who relocate permanently, but that's more a career thing in my experience.

Otherwise, the "brain drain" is mostly retirees, because they can do that.

I don't think the appeal of Florida or Arizona is necessarily just the warmth either. It's the ability to be a couple of hours away from relatively safe major metropolitan areas with amenities.

Sitting intoxicated on a beach is fun for a week, but it's rarer to see someone sit on one of these islands for months at a time, because what does one do otherwise?

I'm not sure what the net outflow is in tourism/residence dollars, but to make a country into something Canadians would consider 'acceptable' to burn a fair portion of the year at would be hugely expensive.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:21 PM
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I know many Ontario farmers have trailers in Florida. They often drive their RVs down there for a few months, usually January to March break, especially the old folks. I always associated Snow Birds with farmers/WT. If I ever did something similar I'd rather have a winter home in Virginia or NorthEast Texas: I don't need hot sun to be happy.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by LakeLocker View Post
I mean obviously there's many different ways of going about it.



It's more like developing a strong relationship with a country, so Canadians can make investments in the country and know they aren't gonna have those properties taken away from them and or end up being slaughtered in Gang Violence.

The ideal scenario would be something like where Canadians still pay Federal Taxes and if they still like more than six months of the year in Canada provincial as well.
This is already happening. Loads of Canadians (and Americans and Europeans) have properties in the Caribbean. Many islands already allow Canadians to stay there for 6 months.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:37 PM
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It's a very one sided opinion. I don't think the ill affects of unimpeded Canadian tourism investment in the Caribbean has even crossed his mind. Turks and Caicos, for example, has a population of 50k in an area 2/3rds the size of Toronto. Most of it naturalized. I can't see our government that has allowed real estate investment to go unimpeded here to do a better job at balancing tourism with the environment. The potential to overbuild and destroy everything would be extremely high. Paved paradise to put up a parrking lot.

The largest nations would be money pits that we can't afford and I doubt they would be that excited to give up their sovereignty they worked so hard for
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LakeLocker View Post
But why unlike the US aren't we more involved?
Becauuse our interests are limited. The British gave the Aussies and Kiwis a lot of Pacific Islands as the end of World War II. They didn't do the same with the Caribbean. They retained most of the Caribbean territories or gave them independence. And that has necessarily limited our relationship with and interests in that region.

We used to have a base in Bermuda right till the 90s. Heck, there used to be a tropical dress code in the regs with uniform shorts. We still have plenty of military ties. The Jamaican Air Force, for example, has their pilots and engineering officers trained by us. And we do their standards evaluations as well. But anything beyond that is going to require a vastly different mindset. We would have to think of ourselves as a more global power. And power projection assets become a necessity at that point. How much consensus is there in Canada for any of this?

And that is aside from the fact that the UK, the US and France would have all major misgivings and reservations about increased Canadian influence in the region. We're a weak player, who can't and won't project power. Heck, we can't even provide substantially for our security. We're more likely to be a liability than an asset.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:47 PM
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If LakeLocker's theory was correct, wouldn't we be observing the Puerto Rico "brain drain" to be in the opposite direction to what it actually is...?

In theory, New Yorkers would move to Puerto Rico for the weather; in practice, Puerto Ricans move to New York.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:53 PM
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I could be wrong but, I haven't noticed the gang violence in the Caribbean as you see in Central America. It's also a pretty good example of outside interference in local economics. The gangs in Honduras, for example, are subsidiaries of American bred gangs that are being financed through their American operations. These would slowly cease to exist if the US would take care of the gang problems tied to the systemic racism in their own backyard!
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Becauuse our interests are limited. The British gave the Aussies and Kiwis a lot of Pacific Islands as the end of World War II. They didn't do the same with the Caribbean. They retained most of the Caribbean territories or gave them independence. And that has necessarily limited our relationship with and interests in that region.
The British did offer their Caribbean colonies to Canada and Canada refused.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 6:17 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by Electric Lady View Post
The British did offer their Caribbean colonies to Canada and Canada refused.
I stand corrected. So even then we couldn't be bothered. Don't know what would change going forward.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 6:34 PM
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If we did change our mind and take over the British colonies, we should combine them into a new province and call it British Colonia.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
If we did change our mind and take over the British colonies, we should combine them into a new province and call it British Colonia.
What about British Canadia? We want to remove the stain of colonialism, after all.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 7:00 PM
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Hold on: Canadian Caribbea.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 7:01 PM
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The Great White Caribbean?

Edit: Oops, no, that doesn't sound too good.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 7:03 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Middle class Canadians already go to the Caribbean.

(The rich go wherever they want.)
Well mostly Eastern Canadians do anyways.
Out here our tropical paradise is Hawaii.
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