Will Regina over-grow Saskatoon?

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

^The biggest reason involves the sources of the North Saskatchewan River. The Saskatchewan Glacier is receeding quite quickly up the valley in AB. Sure there is runoff from other sources as well, but the glacier is still a major component of the flow. Whether this condition has reversed itself in 50 years is open to debate, but given the current rate of receeding, most of the glaciers in AB are probably gone within 50 years. Both Saskatchewan cities have a lot at stake with what happens with water availability in AB.

I think a GEOGRAPHY leason is in order. The South Saskatchewan river runs through Saskatoon. The North Saskatchewan runs through North Battleford and Prince Albert.

The sources both come from the Rockies in Alberta but a few hundred kms apart. As for Glacier melt, very little of the water in the rivers is from them. The majority is from spring and summer melting of the snow that falls in the mountains.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by ReginaGuy

newflyer, I hear you (and other people) constantly ramble about how Regina completely relies on the government, yet I never hear the statistics to back those claims up.

So here they are, as you see, government services (also including education, social sciences, and religion) only make up a small percentage of the total workforce

source: http://www.regina.ca/pdfs/ReginaProfile.pdf

Sorry to burst your bubble.. but that graph means literaly nothing in terms of government workforce in Regina.

Sure there are 8215 in government services and religion... which is hardly the total number of government workers.

How many government workers are in the other categories which don't fall under simple government services??

Many Crown corp works would not fall under that definaition... as many are admin or trades people... and thats a separate category.

How about STC .. transportation?

How about SGI ... nearly completely admin and some trades.

Arts, Culture and recreation facilities... are primarily government in nature.

Health .. in Saskatchewan its pretty well 100% government, unless some private clinics opened up since I left, but I doubt that, being a die-hard socialist province.

Natural sciences .. also includes a vast number of government positions, including atmospheric, climate and agricultural scientifici research postions. I am very familiar with that, as my father was a Phd climate scientist for the government until he retired.

The admin and management positions would span the whole spectrum of occupational categories, including private enterprise and government operations.

This graph's very limited information does not in any way suggest how many people work for the government in Regina.

[newflyer]

Here is a chart from Stats Can.... about Saskatchewan.




Metro breakdown was not available for free... but considering that Regina is the capital it would be fair to assume it would have 25 - 35% of the government workforce minimum (public sector). That may be on the low side considering the number of highrises in the downtown full of government workers.

That would place the number of government workers in Regina would be in excess of 30,000 people. That is a huge number considering the total employment participation of the Regina metro is 115,000.

Of course if we only eleiminate the majority of service jobs ( the previous graph shows it being 25610) , which are not well paying, the economic influence of the government positions in Regina becomes an even larger disportionate number.

[CCF]

Really though, you seem to be the one who cares most that Regina has a high percentage of government workers.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by CCF

Really though, you seem to be the one who cares most that Regina has a high percentage of government workers.

It was to answer Reginaguy's claim the Regina is not completely dependant on government. Regina is extremely dependant on the government.

If it weren't the capital it probably wouldn't exsist... or at least be significantly smaller. Perhaps it would be more similar in size to Melfort than Saskatoon.

It not a big deal to me... I am just pointing out that statistical reality. Its Victoria on the prairies... and for the record I think Victoria is a great city.

[softee]

This thread is hilarious.

[ReginaGuy]

Originally Posted by newflyer

Here is a chart from Stats Can.... about Saskatchewan.




Metro breakdown was not available for free... but considering that Regina is the capital it would be fair to assume it would have 25 - 35% of the government workforce minimum (public sector). That may be on the low side considering the number of high rises in the downtown full of government workers.

That would place the number of government workers in Regina would be in excess of 30,000 people. That is a huge number considering the total employment participation of the Regina metro is 115,000.

Of course if we only eleiminate the majority of service jobs ( the previous graph shows it being 25610) , which are not well paying, the economic influence of the government positions in Regina becomes an even larger disportionate number.

Thanks for the stats, but please refrain from making up values. How do you know that 35% of the government jobs are in Regina? I can tell you as a fact that there are thousands of government jobs in Saskatoon, thousands in Prince Albert, thousands in Moose Jaw, etc. Not to mention the thousands in Rural Saskatchewan (The department of highways, for one, is huge, and >90% of it is outside of Regina).

And what makes you think that the high rises downtown are "full" of government workers? I've never seen any figures suggesting that. Sure, there are a lot of government tenants downtown, but there are a lot of private tenants as well.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by ReginaGuy

Thanks for the stats, but please refrain from making up values. How do you know that 35% of the government jobs are in Regina? I can tell you as a fact that there are thousands of government jobs in Saskatoon, thousands in Prince Albert, thousands in Moose Jaw, etc. Not to mention the thousands in Rural Saskatchewan (The department of highways, for one, is huge, and >90% of it is outside of Regina).

And what makes you think that the high rises downtown are "full" of government workers? I've never seen any figures suggesting that. Sure, there are a lot of government tenants downtown, but there are a lot of private tenants as well.

Regina is the capital of a socialist province.. of course it will have a major portion of government workers. Having 30,000 out of 121,000 is definately on the low side of what is probibly the reality. Even if the "huge" .. (still smaller than Health, Education and Agriculture.. all based in Regina) department of highways employs 10,000 people, which it is not .... it still leaves my very modest projections well in tact. The fact that the department of highways is also primarily made up of seasonal workers makes it relatively small if perminant workers are only considered.

Regina is a massive centre of government. Please don't take my word for it... tour the downtown buildings for yourself.

Start with the obvious .. SGI, Saskpower, Saskenergy, Sasktel, Saskoil .. then checkout the twin towers .. CIBC building, Bank of Montreal building, FCC building, the old Crownlife building, STC, Royal Bank, TD bank building.... various Gov Canada buildings.. don't forget the Delta Hotel, which half the floors are leased out as office space... mostly to government departments.

Now include the University, RCMP training barracks and the Casino. Now of course this doesn't include any of the city workers... and this is only the touching the surface. I still haven't touched 2 of the largest government departments. Regina is loaded with government workers. The Regina formers are very willing to brag of the the "large skyline", which Saskatoon doesn't have. The simple fact that those buildings contain massive government operations seems to be missed. It is true Saskatoon has a much smaller skyline, mostly due to the fact they have much less government, filling up buildings Devine constructed to make it look like Saskatchewan.. especially Regina was a business centre. Saskatoon, Moose Jaw nor PA have massive government buildings from what I've seen.

... please I encourage anyone to take the downtown Regina tour. Like I said before its been a few years since I really spent significant time in Regina, so things may have changed a little, but I don't think significantly. Its a mirage.

Regina is a nice quite, clean government city. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are many things worse than that.

[BrannyMuffin]

Jobs are jobs.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by BrannyMuffin

Jobs are jobs.

If only that were true.

[governorgeneral]

Hi, I'm Regina.

And I'm Saskatoon.

R: You know Saskatoon, we're pretty much the same.

S: I know! Both Prairie towns...

R: Same boiling Prairie summers -

S: - but it's a /dry/ heat -

R: and same endless Prairie winters -

S: - it's not so bad, it builds character.

R: I have the Leader-Post and the Prairie Dog...

S: Me too! Except I call mine "Star-Phoenix" and "Planet S". You have Ring Road -

R: and you have Circle Drive.

S: And both our Chinatowns are mostly native.

R: I'm a government town: 8% of my workforce is in "Occupations in social science, education, government service and religion" (http://www.regina.ca/pdfs/ReginaProfile.pdf)

S: Me too - 8%! (http://www.sreda.com/liveAndWork/wor...rForceData.php) Actually my largest employers are almost the exact same as yours Regina.

R: And did you hear? We're both screwed when the glaciers in Alberta run out and the Albertans use up all the water.

S: Oh. Great.

R: Those bastard Albertans.

[silence]

S: What say we just move there now?

R: I call Calgary!

S: Edmonton!

[BrannyMuffin]

Originally Posted by governorgeneral

Hi, I'm Regina.

And I'm Saskatoon.

R: You know Saskatoon, we're pretty much the same.

S: I know! Both Prairie towns...

R: Same boiling Prairie summers -

S: - but it's a /dry/ heat -

R: and same endless Prairie winters -

S: - it's not so bad, it builds character.

R: I have the Leader-Post and the Prairie Dog...

S: Me too! Except I call mine "Star-Phoenix" and "Planet S". You have Ring Road -

R: and you have Circle Drive.

S: And both our Chinatowns are mostly native.

R: I'm a government town: 8% of my workforce is in "Occupations in social science, education, government service and religion" (http://www.regina.ca/pdfs/ReginaProfile.pdf)

S: Me too - 8%! (http://www.sreda.com/liveAndWork/wor...rForceData.php) Actually my largest employers are almost the exact same as yours Regina.

R: And did you hear? We're both screwed when the glaciers in Alberta run out and the Albertans use up all the water.

S: Oh. Great.

R: Those bastard Albertans.

[silence]

S: What say we just move there now?

R: I call Calgary!

S: Edmonton!

Haha. Funny...except the end.

[newflyer]

LOL ...



S: ... but what about all those large government buildings in your downtown.

R: ...


.. like I said Regina easily exceeds 30,000 government workers.

http://www.foundlocally.com/Regina/H...pEmployers.htm

10 of the top 12 employers are government....

[BrannyMuffin]

Originally Posted by newflyer

LOL ...



S: ... but what about all those large government buildings in your downtown.

R: ...


.. like I said Regina easily exceeds 30,000 government workers.

http://www.foundlocally.com/Regina/H...pEmployers.htm

10 of the top 12 employers are government....

Saskatoon

Saskatoon Health District
Government of Saskatchewan
SaskTel
Sears Canada
Saskatoon Public School Division
Government of Canada
City of Saskatoon
IPSCO Inc..
Saskatoon Separate School Division
University of Saskatoon (think they mean Saskatchewan )
SGI (Saskatchewan Government Insurance)
SaskPower
Crown Life Insurance Company of Canada
Royal Bank
Canada Safeway
Westfair Foods
Saskatoon Pioneer Village
Department of National Defense
Saskatchewan Wheat Pool
Co-operator's Insurance

Regina

Regina Health District
Government of Saskatchewan
SaskTel
Sears Canada
Regina Public School Division
Government of Canada
City of Regina
IPSCO Inc..
Regina Separate School Division
University of Regina
SGI (Saskatchewan Government Insurance)
SaskPower
Crown Life Insurance Company of Canada
Royal Bank
Canada Safeway
Westfair Foods
Regina Pioneer Village
Department of National Defense
Saskatchewan Wheat Pool
Co-operator's Insurance

You substitute Saskatoon for Regina and they're exactly the same...

[ReginaGuy]

Originally Posted by newflyer

LOL ...



S: ... but what about all those large government buildings in your downtown.

R: ...


.. like I said Regina easily exceeds 30,000 government workers.

http://www.foundlocally.com/Regina/H...pEmployers.htm

10 of the top 12 employers are government....

Take a look at downtown Saskatoon, you'll find plenty of crown/government buildings. In fact, you'll probably find that Regina and Saskatoon have roughly the same amount of Public jobs downtown

I don't understand why you constantly pick on Regina, but pretend as if Saskatoon and Winnipeg are some sort of private sector paradise. They're not. Winnipeg is a little better off, simply because its larger, but face it, we're all a bunch of communists until the NDP are out of power.


Edit: yeah, what BrannyMuffin said

[Echoes]

I think someone did just substitute Saskatoon for Regina and called it good. This list cant be accurate at all... what a joke!

How is IPSCO Inc. the 8th top employer in Saskatoon when Cameco and PotashCorp don't even make the list? I was not aware that IPSCO employed anybody in Stoon. What about major manufacturers in Saskatoon such as Case-New Holland, or if this list were a year or so old, Mitchell's Gourmet Foods? I smell major B.S. with this list. What are the Regina and Saskatoon Pioneer Villages? And how are they such major employers in both cities?

Oh ya, and Federated Cooperatives Ltd. doesn't make the Saskatoon list.. Co-op HQ just happens to be in Toon Town. Yet the employees of the Westfair Foods grocery store chain show up on the list and FCL doesn't???

Come on, this can't possibly be fact..

[Ruckus]

Great thread Here's my hostile and supportive opinion.

I drove down to Regina this past March to observe the city myself as I hadn't been there since 1994 and really don't remember much except for visiting the Sears warehouse store???

First impression, passed the large Ipsco plant and images of Edmonton's refineries/heavy industry came to mind. Just an observation.

I continued on to find Downtown Regina, finally at last! Nice modern glass structure's clustered together nicely.

But I almost felt sick, well I was put off because of the large dominant government logos adorning the most prominent structures. Something didn't feel right.

I drove through the core, and then made my way to Wascana Park and the Legislative building. Very nice considering the drab winter setting complete with slushy streets. I wanted to go for a tour but decided against it. Afterwards, I attempted to find the Regina big box development area that received so much criticism, but gave up because I couldn't remember the area (SW or SE, Victoria???).

That trip combined with my knowledge of provincial politics re-affirmed my jealousy of Regina's modern glass structures and disappointment of past government decisions.

We can't go back in time, so my best hope for glass in Saskatoon looks like condo hi-rise, or a Cameco occupied structure with a modern design.

Regina a government city?

Take a look at election results, specifically Regina and Saskatoon. I discovered a noticeable bias towards NDP in Regina ridings.

Saskatoon ridings had their fair share of NDP support, but the difference in votes for the NDP and votes for the Saskatchewan Party had a more competitive ratio: NDP 1,435 vs Sask. Party 1,914.

In Regina, results might look like this: NDP 2,349 vs Sask. Party 1,000. But why such strong support? Job security perhaps? Capital city? Closer to the U.S. border? Home to the Saskatchewan Roughriders?

These observations have been stated again and again. The media and all political parties know this and strive to highlight and respond with necessary action.

In conclusion, Regina will never challenge or surpass Saskatoon as the major center (population) because Regina only has government jobs, the end

Comments and suggestions: A nice city, diversify your economy, ditch the large government logos in the downtown and it might feel a little more welcoming to outsiders, unless they're from Cuba

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by ReginaGuy

Take a look at downtown Saskatoon, you'll find plenty of crown/government buildings. In fact, you'll probably find that Regina and Saskatoon have roughly the same amount of Public jobs downtown

I don't understand why you constantly pick on Regina, but pretend as if Saskatoon and Winnipeg are some sort of private sector paradise. They're not. Winnipeg is a little better off, simply because its larger, but face it, we're all a bunch of communists until the NDP are out of power.


Edit: yeah, what BrannyMuffin said

We have Sasktel on the Saskatoon Square office tower, quite prominent too. Other than that there's not much, unless you count some of the smaller structures downtown that display Sasktel, Sask Energy, SGI, STC.

A huge government workforce is more obvious when visiting Regina than Saskatoon because of those glass office towers. If the Bessborough had a Sask Power logo or some other crown corp I'm sure Saskatoon would feel like a government city too.

[ReginaGuy]

Originally Posted by Country

I think someone did just substitute Saskatoon for Regina and called it good. This list cant be accurate at all... what a joke!

How is IPSCO Inc. the 8th top employer in Saskatoon when Cameco and PotashCorp don't even make the list? I was not aware that IPSCO employed anybody in Stoon. What about major manufacturers in Saskatoon such as Case-New Holland, or if this list were a year or so old, Mitchell's Gourmet Foods? I smell major B.S. with this list. What are the Regina and Saskatoon Pioneer Villages? And how are they such major employers in both cities?

Come on, this can't possibly be fact..

haha I think you're right, I just looked at a few other cities, and I have trouble believing that SaskTel and IPSCO are among the largest employers in Halifax, NS

It seems the people who made that list just did Regina and coppied it into every other city. And I don't think Regina's is even right. Where's Brandt? They employ nearly 1000 people in Regina. And Pioneer Village? how did that make it on the list?

[ReginaGuy]

Originally Posted by SASKFTW

We have Sasktel on the Saskatoon Square office tower, quite prominent too. Other than that there's not much, unless you count some of the smaller structures downtown that display Sasktel, Sask Energy, SGI, STC.

A huge government workforce is more obvious when visiting Regina than Saskatoon because of those glass office towers. If the Bessborough had a Sask Power logo or some other crown corp I'm sure Saskatoon would feel like a government city too.

I agree, Regina definately has much more of a government presence. I guess I took the Saskatoon comparison a little too far. My point was that the two cities aren't that far apart when it comes to public vs private employment