ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[Atlanta3000]

New Development in Edgewood

I don't have specifics except it is on Airline Ave.

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

New Development in Edgewood

I don't have specifics except it is on Airline Ave.

I'm pretty certain this is the empty lot next to the self storage facility, 1 block from the Beltline and next to the Studioplex parking garage they built a few years ago. Nice looking building.

[scania]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

About the only thing Atlanta doesn't have siginificant ties to is the oil industry, mainly because its geography isn't conducive to drilling / fracking.

Hey this might be a surprise, but I've mentioned on here before that I'm in the Oil Industry. Colonial Pipeline and Kinder Morgan basically supplies most of the jet fuel, diesel, and gasoline for the Southeastern U.S...Colonial headquarters is in Alpharetta, and Kinder Morgan though its office skyscraper is in Houston, they also have its main offices outside of Houston in Alpharetta, and Orange, California.

[scania]

Originally Posted by atlnative73

Colonial Pipeline, headquartered in Alpharetta, Georgia, "is the largest U.S. refined products pipeline system and can carry more than 3 million barrels of gasoline, diesel and jet fuel between the U.S. Gulf Coast and the New York Harbor area." Wikipedia

Sorry...I had not scrolled through all the posts.

[jjordan1023]

Originally Posted by montydawg

I'm pretty certain this is the empty lot next to the self storage facility, 1 block from the Beltline and next to the Studioplex parking garage they built a few years ago. Nice looking building.

I was thinking the same thing. I've placed it here on my map (https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/ed...843817152&z=19). Let me know if this is the same place you were thinking in relation to the other projects that have been announced in that area.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by jjordan1023

I was thinking the same thing. I've placed it here on my map (https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/ed...843817152&z=19). Let me know if this is the same place you were thinking in relation to the other projects that have been announced in that area.

Here is a link to view the project specifics in more detail and I suspect the location is covered, but I have not have time to review.

http://www.wintercompanies.com/subco...odAirline.html

[jjordan1023]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Here is a link to view the project specifics in more detail and I suspect the location is covered, but I have not have time to review.

http://www.wintercompanies.com/subco...odAirline.html

Perfect. They list the address as 628 Edgewood Ave, which is exactly where I have it located on the map. Thanks for the link! This looks like a great development.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by scania

Hey this might be a surprise, but I've mentioned on here before that I'm in the Oil Industry. Colonial Pipeline and Kinder Morgan basically supplies most of the jet fuel, diesel, and gasoline for the Southeastern U.S...Colonial headquarters is in Alpharetta, and Kinder Morgan though its office skyscraper is in Houston, they also have its main offices outside of Houston in Alpharetta, and Orange, California.

And to point out the obvious, Southern Company is an ~$20bln utility company HQ'd in Atlanta.

@3000, nice rendering on Airline Ave. I've been saying it for a while, but development from EST between Inman Park and back toward downtown is one of the best spots we could be packing in development. Glad to see such a nice dense proposal for the area.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

New Development in Edgewood

I don't have specifics except it is on Airline Ave.

This looks to be going on the lot I was just talking about last week. They already destroyed the building on site so in a way, they've already started a bit of land prep.

Originally Posted by Ant131531

I want to add on that the Airline Condo project appears to be going full steam as well....land prep well underway. What's interesting is that they destroyed the building on the lot that's adjacent to the Edgewood bridge as well...makes me wonder if something is going on that lot.

[Martinman]

Re Airline Ave development : Yes please!

Originally Posted by clexmond

Hear, hear. An analysis of the actual public benefit to these deals is hugely important. Handing out overly generous tax breaks to huge companies just because they can get them elsewhere is not a good enough reason.

We need an ACCURATE analysis which this is not.
There are a lot of inaccuracies besides the sales tax/ property tax break down that A3K mentioned. The Gulch will at no point be "tax free" as a result of the proposed deal.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Here is a link to view the project specifics in more detail and I suspect the location is covered, but I have not have time to review.

http://www.wintercompanies.com/subco...odAirline.html

Looks like two levels of parking, street level retail, and a nice array of units. I’m curious if it’ll be rentals or condos. This would be going right next to the other condos on airline, which I’m not sure if they’ve broken ground or not. One of the links says apartments, 88 units, 1,200 sq ft of retail, and 7,000 sq ft office space.

[Username123]

A couple of Ponce updates...

1. I noticed a sign up for a condo building called “The Leon on Ponce” (how creative), on the empty lot next to the car wash on Ponce that is across Glen Iris from PCM. It says they’ll be priced from the $300,000s to $1M. Here’s the website:

https://www.owntheleon.com/

The next two are relatively minor.

2. Crews are working on the little brick commercial building fronting Ponce next to the Shell station at 486 Ponce. A couple years ago the businesses were moved out and the owner was supposed to fix it up but nothing happened. A truck hit it a few months back, and I thought that would be the end of it. Now crews have painted some of the exterior gray, and have been working on the interior the last few days.

3. Chico and Chang’s (a place that sold Chinese and Mexican food) closed a while back. It was probably the worst “eyesore” along Ponce, and constantly had vagrants and addicts hanging around it. I’m glad to see it go. The lot has been fenced off, hopefully something happens there.

[Atlanta3000]

Atlantic Yards - Midtown

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Looks like two levels of parking, street level retail, and a nice array of units. I’m curious if it’ll be rentals or condos. This would be going right next to the other condos on airline, which I’m not sure if they’ve broken ground or not. One of the links says apartments, 88 units, 1,200 sq ft of retail, and 7,000 sq ft office space.

As of now, these are going to be condos, but as with any condo project, there are presale requirements that make financing difficult so be hesitant when chalking it up as a "done deal". Also, I know a few projects in the pipeline that have been canceled and/or pushed until further notice as construction costs are very high right now. So, considering this project appears to be in the bid phase, there is a good chance pricing comes back and is so far beyond a value engineering process that it just kills the deal (at least for now).

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Atlantic Yards - Midtown

Shocker! Yet another project in this town VE'd.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Martinman

Re Airline Ave development : Yes please!



We need an ACCURATE analysis which this is not.
There are a lot of inaccuracies besides the sales tax/ property tax break down that A3K mentioned. The Gulch will at no point be "tax free" as a result of the proposed deal.

Perhaps it is not entirely accurate, but the rationale for providing tax breaks to a project with minimal public benefit (as outlined and compared to the tax breaks) deserves scrutiny. The reality is this project, subsidized by a loss of tax revenue, would steal demand from other in town locations that WOULD provide an increase to the tax digest without similar subsidies needed.

If they can't make the gulch project work, that means the economics are not there. Which is fine, because as Newport and others improve the South Downtown, Downtown, and the west Atlanta neighborhoods, eventually the economics will make sense without the massive subsidies in addition to not stealing demand from other sources.

The only possible way this makes sense for the city, if it was the ONLY way Amazon would come to Atlanta, but even then you'd have to couple these subsidies with those also being provided be local and state agencies to lure Amazon, and then I'd still question if it all makes sense.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

As of now, these are going to be condos, but as with any condo project, there are presale requirements that make financing difficult so be hesitant when chalking it up as a "done deal". Also, I know a few projects in the pipeline that have been canceled and/or pushed until further notice as construction costs are very high right now. So, considering this project appears to be in the bid phase, there is a good chance pricing comes back and is so far beyond a value engineering process that it just kills the deal (at least for now).

Juniper and 5th and 788 West Midtown started construction without pre-sales.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Juniper and 5th and 788 West Midtown started construction without pre-sales.

A caveat should be added that certain foreign companies don't have the same sort of capital / debt restrictions as others. Any traditional debt financing is going to require pre-sales.

Edit: Also, do we know they don't have presales? I haven't seen anything mentioning that they don't. Additionally, I haven't been by the site, but as we've seen with multiple other condo projects, pushing dirt around doesn't mean they got a construction loan. Developers often use equity to do this to make people feel the project is real and get people on board (see Opus, see JPX's former project).

[Atlanta3000]

Atlanta3000's School of Finance - Gulch Edition

Does everyone understand a $5 Billion development costs more than $5 Billion? Why? Interest on money. When you buy a $500K house, is the total cost of the house $500K? Yes - if you don't need a loan. No - if you need a bank to finance the house.

The same goes for the Gulch. CIM Group doesn't have $5 Billion in capital lying around to underwrite this project. They are asking the CoA to issue 30 Year bonds - which they will purchase all the bonds so CIM Group is on the hook if the property tax and/or retail sales tax incentives don't cover the bonds. Also, the CoA has defined milestones in the Agreement CIM Group needs to hit before they will issue a new traunch of bonds. CIM Group does have the ability to sell these bonds at a future date to inventors, but again the CoA is not liable if CIM Group cannot repay the bonds.

As mentioned several times before, CIM Group is self financing $500 Million in infrastructure to bring the 40 acres to street level. This will take 3 - 4 years and the city and state are not funding any of these costs by ways of bonds or any other incentives.

CIM Group said they believe it will take 10 years in order for full build out of the project at an estimated cost of $5 Billion. So let's amortize $5 Billion at 30 Years @ 6.5% (average commercial mortgage rate):

https://www.myamortizationchart.com/...ation-schedule


So can those on here and in the media PLEASE stop saying the CoA and the State are almost paying half of the project because you sound fucking stupid.

Why? Because this $5 Billion project is going to cost $11.4 Billion when you factor in the interest cost of the bonds.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

A caveat should be added that certain foreign companies don't have the same sort of capital / debt restrictions as others. Any traditional debt financing is going to require pre-sales.

Any developer in the US can get a bank to finance a condo project if they can get 30 - 40% of the the units pre-sold OR they get private equity (from a US or foreign investor) to fund 30 - 40% of the project.