Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[TimB09]

Originally Posted by Nathan2280

I would like to see baseball league resurface in Canada across the whole country. Ferguson Jenkins had one pop up in early 00s but died after one season. At least someone should start building the ball parks so something could move forward

There's some nice ballparks that could accommodate this in Canada for sure. REMAX/Telus Field in Edmonton would be perfect for this, even though right now the Edmonton Prospects play out of the park.

I don't see this happening though, unfortunately.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Calgary accommodates NHL, WHL and NLL in the same arena. NLL is only 9 home games in the regular season.

The AHL season is longer though, it's one game less than the WHL + NLL seasons put together. That said, I don't think it's about arena availability so much as it is resources. Winnipeg has become a very crowded sports market... we have the number of teams you would expect in a considerably larger city. Selling an unknown product like the NLL would take real money and effort. I suspect TNSE is happy to keep chugging along with the Jets and Moose, both of which are known entities with established fanbases and probably don't need nearly as much of an effort to sell.

Originally Posted by Boreal

I would agree with esquire, that there is likely next to zero demand for box lacrosse at the professional level in Manitoba. It isn't on the radar screen of many, if I were to hazard a guess. I think there are plenty of big sports fans that couldn't name one player in the whole league. I think it's tremendous that it has caught on in certain markets, I just don't see Winnipeg as being in that league now or any time in the near future. Soccer and basketball appear to have far more explosive growth potential in our local market.

Agreed. I suspect lacrosse wouldn't last long here, although that could change if one of the sports networks picked up the NLL and started televising games... that would build a profile for the league.

Soccer and basketball tap into different people who aren't necessarily going to Jets and Bomber games... Valour FC demonstrated that, although the team was so shoddy they may have turned some people off. Something like a G League basketball team could do well.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I doubt any of the cities that have teams in the NLL have lacrosse traditions. The games are affordable family-friendly entertainment spectacles. I believe a team relocated to Halifax last season so Moncton would have a natural rivalry if they joined the league. Moncton should try to position itself as the sports entertainment capital of the Maritimes by landing an NLL franchise and then beating Halifax out to get a CFL team. Halifax had like 85 years to build a stadium so if they lose out tough shit for them--they can drive to Moncton for games.

Vancouver and New Westminister have a rich lacrosse history going back to the late 1800s when BC was 2 years old.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Vancouver and New Westminister have a rich lacrosse history going back to the late 1800s when BC was 2 years old.

Ah yes, the New Westminster Salmonbellies.

You only have to hear that team name once to remember it for life.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ah yes, the New Westminster Salmonbellies.

You only have to hear that team name once to remember it for life.

Lol yes spawning salmon are a big deal in the Fraser river.

Quite a bit of lacrosse history in Victoria as well (Shamrocks etc).

[SteelTown]

Our knight in shining armour, Darko, of Vrancor.

Developer going all in on new downtown Hamilton arena

https://globalnews.ca/news/6454476/d...amilton-arena/



Vrancor Group is offering to 'reinvent' Hamilton's FirstOntario Centre. Rick Zamperin/900 CHML

There appears to be a white knight for Hamilton’s downtown arena.

Vrancor Group has provided the City with a term sheet which outlines the company’s intent to “redevelop Hamilton’s entertainment and convention properties.”

The $200-million proposal says Vrancor will “fully reinvent FirstOntario Centre into a state of the art and technologically modern facility,” while not requesting operating subsidies.

The plan also calls for the expansion and modernization of the Hamilton Convention Centre by doubling its hosting capability and adding a new four-star hotel in the downtown core.

The term sheet also says the City will continue to own the arena and FirstOntario Concert Hall and that Vrancor would be the operator.

The company has been behind the construction of new hotels, commercial and residential buildings in downtown Hamilton over the last 15 years.

On Wednesday, Hamilton councillors rubber-stamped a decision to not pursue a new arena project at Limeride Mall that had been spearheaded by Hamilton Bulldogs owner Michael Andlauer and Cadillac Fairview.

Andlauer had offered to spend $30 million on the project that included a 6,000-seat arena and parking garage at the mall.

Key points in Vrancor Group’s term sheet:

* Vrancor will not request operating subsidies for any of Hamilton’s entertainment/convention properties
* The City will continue to own FirstOntario Centre and FirstOntario Concert Hall, Vrancor would operate the facilities through a long-term licensing arrangement
* Vrancor will not ask the City to borrow any money, or draw upon any reserves to contribute towards the development
* A new four-star hotel will be constructed in downtown Hamilton to serve an expanded Hamilton Convention Centre

[JHikka]

It didn't take long for Canada's best small stadium to come under pressure from its neighbours. QEII Hospital expansion plans encroach on current stadium property:

Originally Posted by q12

Gonna be a tight squeeze...

Originally Posted by q12

Yep, here is their statement.



https://hfxwanderersfc.canpl.ca/hfx-...-parkade-plans

[esquire]

^ Is it necessarily that bad? By the looks of things, it's not like it will cut into the field or the grandstand.

[thomax]

New renderings of Vrancor Group's vision for FirstOntario Centre in Hamilton...


Vrancor's vision of the new FirstOntario Centre by R L, on Flickr


Vrancor's vision of the new FirstOntario Centre by R L, on Flickr


Vrancor's vision of the new FirstOntario Centre by R L, on Flickr

The arena in it's current state:

Google Street View | FirstOntario Centre, Hamilton, Ontario

CBC Hamilton | Vrancor has a $200M plan for Hamilton's downtown entertainment facilities

Another group that includes Carmen's and LiUNA has a $500M plan

By Samantha Craggs | January 29, 2019

One of the city's biggest developers says he has a $200-million plan to redevelop Hamilton's aging downtown entertainment facilities, and build two new office buildings to boot.

And unlike a recent proposal to put an arena at Lime Ridge Mall, there's no public money involved.

Darko Vranich, president of Vrancor, said he wants to redevelop FirstOntario Centre, FirstOntario Concert Hall and the Hamilton Convention Centre. That includes revamping the arena and attaching two mid-rise office buildings to it, as well as expanding the Hamilton Convention Centre and renovating FirstOntario Concert Hall.

"We've been working with architects who specialize in arenas and convention centres," said Mario Frankovitch, Vrancor's project advisor. "We've been working on this for months now."

A group called Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group (HUPEG) is making a $500-million pitch to council to revive the facilities too. That includes Carmen's Group, LiUNA, Fengate Capital, Meridian Credit Union, Paletta International and the Joyce family.

Both groups have submitted term sheets, and councillors are expected to discuss both pitches on Feb. 5. Whichever proposal wins, Frankovich said, what's good for downtown is good for everyone.

"From the perspective of Vrancor, having something happen that is positive in the downtown core is good news," he said. "The visions are slightly different, and that is why we're looking forward to going forward with the vision as imagined by Darko."

The proposals come as council recently nixed a proposal from Cadillac Fairview and the Hamilton Bulldogs hockey team. That team wanted to build a 6,000-seat arena at Lime Ridge mall, which would've required millions in public dollars for a facility that would remain on private property.

Bulldogs owner Michael Andlauer pledged $30 million of his own money toward the $126 million project, and said he'd consider moving the team if the city didn't back the Lime Ridge proposal.

Frankovich says Vrancor hopes to give the Bulldogs what they need too.

As for HUPEG, it wants to build a "new or renovated" convention centre, and make extensive upgrades to the arena and FirstOntario Concert Hall, said PJ Mercanti from Carmen's Group in an email to councillors this month.

HUPEG has signed a letter of intent with IN8 Developments, the new owner of Hamilton City Centre, to create "substantial residential units coupled with the creation of new hospitality and entertainment assets."

The group, Mercanti said in the email, has also had "positive, progressive discussions with the leadership of the Art Gallery of Hamilton, as we intend to support their expansion efforts."

Jason Farr, Ward 2 councillor, said he won't say which plan he likes better. He's "just thrilled" that there are two serious contenders.

"I'm happy both are taking it very seriously, and talking about hundreds of millions of dollars in investments with little to no public money involved."

[thurmas]

are they keeping the upper deck seats in that proposal or lowering the roof to lower bowl seating only?

[Hawrylyshyn]

Keeping it for major concert events, but will be blocked for most sport events as it's not needed

(that grey upper ring is the part blocking the upper bowl)

[esquire]

Seems like a no-brainer for Hamilton... assuming that Vrancor can actually pull it off, their proposal checks all the boxes... no public money, downtown facility, maintains high capacity for large events... what's not to like about their pitch?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

Keeping it for major concert events, but will be blocked for most sport events as it's not needed

(that grey upper ring is the part blocking the upper bowl)

So about 9,000 or 10,000 seats for hockey?

[SteelTown]

There are two groups competing to renovate First Ontario Centre.

The other group has some of Hamilton's heavy hitters such as LiUNA, Joyce family, Paletta International, Meridian and Carmen's. So I'm really curious to see their plans. They want to demolish City Centre (former Eaton's Centre) and build a new arena there and I think they'll convert First Ontario Centre as a new Convention Centre.

[TorontoDrew]

The concept is good, lets hope the design is still in it's early stages. I wish they would give it more of an industrial look and pay homage to Hamilton's industrial roots. More brick and exposed iron work would be nice.

[Darkoshvilli]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Our knight in shining armour, Darko

Yes, m'lord?

[megadude]

So has anyone here started calling the ACC Scotiabank Arena? Does anyone actually say Rogers Centre and not The Dome? Does anyone say First Ontario Centre instead of Copps?

Last week a co-worker and I were trying to get Pearl Jam tickets, unsuccesfully of course, and she was trying TO while I was trying Hamilton. While in the queue, and having conversation, we kept referring to the venues as the ACC and Copps.

How many years have to pass before you even consider calling them by their current names?

How many Winnipeggers said Canad Inns Stadium? It's a terribly awkward sounding name.

What other examples are there in Canada? I feel like there are very few for major sports like in the US, but there have to be tonnes for junior hockey. So who here knew their stadium as one name for many years and then actually referred to it by its new name after the naming rights were acquired by some corporation?

I imagine the transition from Labatt Centre in London to The Bud (Budweiser Gardens) was easy because The Bud sounds cool. Even though GM is shutting down its plant in Oshawa, I'm guessing people still call it GM Centre and not Tribute Communities Centre.

I still say Ricoh for Ricoh Coliseum instead of Coca Cola Coliseum. I actually had to look up its new name. And as you might have guessed, myself and everyone I know still call it Hershey Centre instead of Paramount Fine Foods Centre when we're talking about the Mississauga Steelheads or going to play indoor soccer. I still say the Ampitheathre for Molson Ampitheatre instead of Budweiser Stage. I still say Rexall instead of Aviva Centre for tennis and Powerade Centre instead of CAA Centre in Brampton.

One exception for me is the O'Keefe Centre. I knew it as that when I was young but had never been there. Then I remember the change to Hummingbird Centre was a big deal at the time in '96. This was pretty much a foreign concept then. I knew it as Hummingbird but never said it because I'd never go there. I first went when it was known as the Sony Centre and I'd actually refer to it by that. Now it's the Meridian Centre, and I had to look up that name.

What if Roy Thomson Hall changed its name? I think there would be somewhat of an uproar not just because of the historical name, but because it's also an architectural and cultural landmark. People made a big deal about Sears Tower changing to Willis Tower. This would't be on that level for obvious reasons, but there would be a backlash.

I'm sure some of this has been brought up but not during a time I was present on this thread and I'm curious now.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Is it necessarily that bad? By the looks of things, it's not like it will cut into the field or the grandstand.

Of course it's bad. It 100% eliminates the option that this stadium can ever expand as the fan base grows. It's mind boggling how many stadia in this county are built with absolutely zero thought to future needs. BMO Field, Universite Laval are just 2 examples of many. Looks like this will be yet another one but at least here it's outside forces at play.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by megadude

So has anyone here started calling the ACC Scotiabank Arena? Does anyone actually say Rogers Centre and not The Dome? Does anyone say First Ontario Centre instead of Copps?

Last week a co-worker and I were trying to get Pearl Jam tickets, unsuccesfully of course, and she was trying TO while I was trying Hamilton. While in the queue, and having conversation, we kept referring to the venues as the ACC and Copps.

How many years have to pass before you even consider calling them by their current names?

How many Winnipeggers said Canad Inns Stadium? It's a terribly awkward sounding name.

What other examples are there in Canada? I feel like there are very few for major sports like in the US, but there have to be tonnes for junior hockey. So who here knew their stadium as one name for many years and then actually referred to it by its new name after the naming rights were acquired by some corporation?

I imagine the transition from Labatt Centre in London to The Bud (Budweiser Gardens) was easy because The Bud sounds cool. Even though GM is shutting down its plant in Oshawa, I'm guessing people still call it GM Centre and not Tribute Communities Centre.

I still say Ricoh for Ricoh Coliseum instead of Coca Cola Coliseum. I actually had to look up its new name. And as you might have guessed, myself and everyone I know still call it Hershey Centre instead of Paramount Fine Foods Centre when we're talking about the Mississauga Steelheads or going to play indoor soccer. I still say the Ampitheathre for Molson Ampitheatre instead of Budweiser Stage. I still say Rexall instead of Aviva Centre for tennis and Powerade Centre instead of CAA Centre in Brampton.

One exception for me is the O'Keefe Centre. I knew it as that when I was young but had never been there. Then I remember the change to Hummingbird Centre was a big deal at the time in '96. This was pretty much a foreign concept then. I knew it as Hummingbird but never said it because I'd never go there. I first went when it was known as the Sony Centre and I'd actually refer to it by that. Now it's the Meridian Centre, and I had to look up that name.

What if Roy Thomson Hall changed its name? I think there would be somewhat of an uproar not just because of the historical name, but because it's also an architectural and cultural landmark. People made a big deal about Sears Tower changing to Willis Tower. This would't be on that level for obvious reasons, but there would be a backlash.

I'm sure some of this has been brought up but not during a time I was present on this thread and I'm curious now.

I still refer to Ottawa's CFL stadium as Lansdowne. And the Senators' home has changed names so many times that I simply refer to it as "the Senators' arena". Many people seem to do the same for both of these.

The Habs' arena was the Centre Molson for the first part of its existence. But it's been the Centre Bell for a while and that name seems to have caught on fairly well. I haven't heard the Molson name used in many years.

I still refer to the Blue Jays stadium as the SkyDome.

I find it interesting that a place like Wrigley Field still has the same name after all these years. Assuming that it was named for the chewing gum company, and that they long ago ceased to be a team or stadium sponsor.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I still refer to Ottawa's CFL stadium as Lansdowne. And the Senators' home has changed names so many times that I simply refer to it as "the Senators' arena". Many people seem to do the same for both of these.

The Habs' arena was the Centre Molson for the first part of its existence. But it's been the Centre Bell for a while and that name seems to have caught on fairly well. I haven't heard the Molson name used in many years.

I still refer to the Blue Jays stadium as the SkyDome.

I find it interesting that a place like Wrigley Field still has the same name after all these years. Assuming that it was named for the chewing gum company, and that they long ago ceased to be a team or stadium sponsor.

It depends, I guess.

I think there's something to be said for timeless names, whereas changing the name of a place every few years to whatever corporate sponsor du jour erodes the value of that. This is particularly notable in marginal markets where the corporate sponsor changes every few years.

Rogers and Scotiabank also suffer from having multiple different venues in the same country, so unless there's a unique identifier (ex. Scotiabank Saddledome) nobody remembers it. It is Rogers Arena? Rogers Centre? Rogers Place? I mean, I guess I get the corporate ethos behind obliterating names like Skydome, but I still don't like it much.

It also depends on the length of time something was named what it was. Skydome and the ACC were named for 20+ years, whereas the Centre Molson was only that for 6 years.