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  #1  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 12:27 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is online now
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Will any other metro host multiple teams in the same sport?

Probably not for multiple reasons but DFW could because of how spread out it is with dual city centers.

New York and LA could actually host 3 and in the NHL one already does.
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  #2  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 1:18 AM
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Any other metro other than...?
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  #3  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:25 AM
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^ Other than the existing ones I imagine, mainly NYC & LA.

Multiple major league team metro areas:

NYC:
NFL - 2
MLB - 2
NBA - 2
NHL - 3
MLS - 2


LA:
NFL - 2
MLB - 2
NBA - 2
NHL - 2
MLS - 2


BAY AREA:
NFL - 2 (for now, the Raiders move to Vegas next year)
MLB - 2


CHICAGO:
MLB - 2



I suppose some might also argue for DC/Baltimore as they constitute a single CSA, but I see them as separate enough fan-base wise that there probably ain't a ton of overlap in their MLB & NFL allegiances.
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  #4  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 3:18 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is online now
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Washington and Baltimore are one, regardless of semantics like that. If you try to separate them, then you can't say San Francisco and San Jose are one.
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  #5  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 3:27 AM
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They're not parallel at all. The SF area functions as a unit.
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  #6  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 3:43 AM
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For this discussion it is, distance being the key. You can be an Orioles season ticket holder in Alexandria.
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  #7  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 4:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ThePhun1 View Post
Washington and Baltimore are one, regardless of semantics like that. If you try to separate them, then you can't say San Francisco and San Jose are one.
Meh.

I'd say there's more separation with the former, sports-wise.

SF and San Jose don't have have any sport overlaps. MLB & NBA are in SF, while NFL, NHL & MLS are in South Bay.

Alternatively, DC and Baltimore have teams in two sports that oppose each other: Skins/Ravens and Nats/Orioles. That makes the geographic division a bit starker even if the geographic distances are the same.

But if you wanna argue that they're one, that's fine, it doesn't really mean a whole great deal in the end, but I will likely continue to disagree with you.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Dec 11, 2019 at 4:32 AM.
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  #8  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 5:04 AM
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As a Rangers' fan, I tend forget the Devils and Islanders are also 'New York' teams since they are outside of NYC and have such a strong following independent of NYC. Islanders moved to Brooklyn (along with the NJ Nets) a few years ago but I still associate them with Long Island which is still where their fan-base is concentrated.
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  #9  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 11:10 AM
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The GTA could support another NHL team, and it's been bandied around before.
The biggest hurdles would be dealing with both Buffalo, and Leafs Nation territorial rights.
Could Chicago not theoretically support another NFL team?
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  #10  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 1:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Meh.

I'd say there's more separation with the former, sports-wise.

SF and San Jose don't have have any sport overlaps. MLB & NBA are in SF, while NFL, NHL & MLS are in South Bay.

Alternatively, DC and Baltimore have teams in two sports that oppose each other: Skins/Ravens and Nats/Orioles. That makes the geographic division a bit starker even if the geographic distances are the same.

But if you wanna argue that they're one, that's fine, it doesn't really mean a whole great deal in the end, but I will likely continue to disagree with you.
As someone who grew up in Nova, the idea that DC and Baltimore was the same metro always felt odd. Baltimore always was it's own thing. It will probably always will be, no matter how well the suburbs connect.
Its not the same as the bay area or la/inland empire.

DC quickly ditched the Orioles when the Nationals came and could care less when the Ravens arrived in the 90s.
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  #11  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:06 PM
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DC did support the Orioles, though. That's a plausible argument for one sports market.

The Orioles were a big market team, with among the largest payrolls, TV contracts, and annual attendance, until the Nationals arrived. Now they're basically Cincy or KC.

Obviously DC-Baltimore isn't a region analogous to, say, Chicago, or Houston, with one obvious dominant center. But there's some degree of relationship.
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  #12  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:22 PM
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North Carolina should probably be rewarded an MLB team at some point, it's the only major league sport that isn't present in the fast growing state.

According to ncleg.gov the current population is over 10 million, by 2035 it is projected to have a population of 12.1 million with Charlotte and the Triangle absorbing most of that growth -- [projected to grow by 34% in each metro region].

The observed growth in The Triangle suggests that it might exceed the growth of Charlotte over the next 15 years.
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  #13  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:39 PM
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Could Chicago not theoretically support another NFL team?
theoretically? perhaps it could.

practically? no.


da bears are the official state religion of chicagoland.

who's gonna wanna go up against that?


besides, as one of only two remaining founding franchises of the NFL, the bears hold a lot of sway within the organization, and i can't envision any scenario where a majority of team owners would vote against the bears and allow a 2nd team in chicago.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Dec 11, 2019 at 2:50 PM.
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Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:42 PM
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I feel like it's very difficult in the modern era to break into an established market already serviced by an existing team. Most cities with multiples teams are historical legacies from the days when team valuations were minuscule compared to today. It made sense to have as many baseball teams in New York as possible when the only revenue came from filling seats and there was plenty enough people to do so. TV deals drive revenue and value and obviously capture a much wider market area that becomes extremely important to protect. If you do manage to enter the market, you still have to carve a fanbase out of an established sports culture (see the Clippers).

I have no doubt that Toronto could support another NHL team if it had been here since the 60's. Now MLSE would fight tooth and nail against such a notion since any growth in a new franchise would come at the expense of the Leafs and cannibalization of its market share. Forth Worth could probably host an NFL franchise, but why would Jerry Jones ever let that happen?
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Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:54 PM
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DC did support the Orioles, though. That's a plausible argument for one sports market.

The Orioles were a big market team, with among the largest payrolls, TV contracts, and annual attendance, until the Nationals arrived. Now they're basically Cincy or KC.

Obviously DC-Baltimore isn't a region analogous to, say, Chicago, or Houston, with one obvious dominant center. But there's some degree of relationship.
Until the Nationals arrived. As far as I know, DC ditched the Orioles fast. I can't remember seeing any Ravens fans. Ever.
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Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
theoretically? perhaps it could.

practically? no.


da bears are the official state religion of chicagoland.

who's gonna wanna go up against that?


besides, as one of only two remaining founding franchises of the NFL, the bears hold a lot of sway within the organization, and i can't envision any scenario where a majority of team owners would vote against the bears and allow a 2nd team in chicago.
The Packers could move to Chicago. It's closer to Milwaukee and they probably have more fans in Chicago than Green Bay anyway :-p.
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  #17  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:58 PM
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Until the Nationals arrived. As far as I know, DC ditched the Orioles fast.
Right, but my point is that if Baltimore and DC have no overlap, the arrival of the Nationals shouldn't have affected the Orioles. Instead, it devastated the Orioles, and they went from Yankees Lite to Tampa.

If, say, NY added another basketball team (let's say the NJ Hoopers, playing in the Prudential Center) would that affect the 76ers? Highly unlikely. The Celtics or Wizards? No way. Could it affect the Knicks and Nets? Possibly.
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  #18  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:58 PM
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As mentioned with Chicago and the NFL, it is not just statistics that matter, but the human element. Boston could support another baseball team, with how popular the sport is there, but who would switch from being a Red Sox fan? Same with Chicago and the NFL, Chicago and the NBA, St. Louis and MLB, etc.

What you need are enough people that are not fans of the local team, but want to be fans of a local team and have that local tie-in. There are only a few realistic chances.

Toronto and the NHL, where a team is either put in Hamilton or the Toronto suburbs, is one. There have been bids put in for an expansion team in the GTA in the last few years. There are enough people in Ontario that are huge hockey fans but are not Maple Leafs fans. Some are Sabres fans, if they live between Hamilton and Buffalo. Some are Senators fans, if they live way east of Toronto. Some are Red Wings fans, if they live out near London. Some follow rival teams, like the Canadiens and Flyers. Some follow random Canadian or northern US teams, like the Flames, Bruins, or Blackhawks. Some are just anti-Maple Leafs. All of this could be enough to pull in people who want a local team.

New York and MLB is the other. Apparently northern New Jersey is the most ripe market for MLB, moreso than Montreal, San Antonio, or Las Vegas. What is tough with this market is that most are strong Yankees fans. But the Mets exist, catering to Brookluyn, Queens, and the rest of Long Island. So a team with a true New Jersey identity could work.

I wonder if a second NHL team could go in Montreal. There used to be the Maroons, which were the Anglophone team, and the Canadiens were originally the Francophone team. Are there enough people in the Montreal area who are not Canadien fans?

By the way, I don't see Los Angeles working with two NFL teams, even though there are enough people without any real loyalty, or without a team. The Rams are struggling to get fans, and the Chargers are really struggling to get fans. If you go to a Rams game, you will see some Raiders and Cowboys jerseys. Maybe down the road these people convert to Rams fans, and maybe the new stadium gets people more invested in the Rams, but as it stands now, there is not as much of a local connection to the Rams and Chargers as the NFL would like to think.

Last edited by xzmattzx; Dec 11, 2019 at 3:32 PM.
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  #19  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
New York and MLB is the other. Apparently northern New Jersey is the most ripe market for MLB, moreso than Montreal, San Antonio, or Las Vegas. What is tough with this market is that most are strong Yankees fans. But the Mets exist, catering to Brookluyn, Queens, and the rest of Long Island. So a team with a true New Jersey identity could work.
During the 1980's, there were various attempts to put a MLB team in the NJ Meadowlands. Trump, during his USFL days, claimed he wanted to buy a team and move it to NJ.

Most of NJ is Yankee territory, but I actually don't think it's an insane idea. It would likely be a better market than the bottom dozen or so MLB teams. NJ has 9 million people and is among the wealthiest states, and it's a huge pain to cross the Hudson for a game.
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  #20  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 3:06 PM
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Most cities with multiples teams are historical legacies from the days when team valuations were minuscule compared to today.
that's exactly the case for why chicago has two MLB teams.

it's just a hold over legacy from the olden days when MLB was entirely contained within the northeast quandrant of the country.

if they were handing out MLB franchises from scratch today in 2019, there's no way that chicago ends up with two teams.
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