Dying urban malls

[drummer]

There was an old movie theater on Ben White in Austin that was turned into a laser tag arena. That was pretty cool back in the late 90s. I don't think an entire mall would merit that type of expense unless it were a temporary endeavor. I could see it working for a department store as a portion of a larger redevelopment of an old mall. Paintball, laser tag, whatever.

That said, I like the way Highland Mall in Austin was purchased by Austin Community College - and the whole area around it is being actively redeveloped. There's a thread on it in the Austin sub-forum.

I think the difference with malls in the U.S. and malls in Asia is that there are regular services beyond shopping only at malls in Asia - banks, schools/tutoring, office supplies, and even several government offices. Pros and cons to this, of course, but on top of those they have all the normal stuff. The cons are largely the fact that many of these malls aren't connected to mass transit (with the exception of several large malls in downtown Bangkok). Several require driving to and from and obviously don't contribute to a more organic urban framework. That said, stores that wouldn't be able to afford a street-level storefront can afford a small space in a mall in many cases.

[UrbanImpact]

The malls on the "urban" east side of the Miami metro have been thriving. Bickell City Center is a gem:





And there are severalvertical malls that have been added recently, like..
River Landing:



5th and Alton:

[drummer]

And that's a better use, in my opinion. It's essentially a stacked strip mall with a tower on top. Good for Miami. What is the tower above it used for?

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by drummer

And that's a better use, in my opinion. It's essentially a stacked strip mall with a tower on top. Good for Miami. What is the tower above it used for?

Residential for most of them. Brickell City Center is a combination of residential, hotel, and office.

[llamaorama]

This is the first time I’ve seen a hobby lobby in an actual lobby.

[drummer]

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact

Residential for most of them. Brickell City Center is a combination of residential, hotel, and office.

Nice, thanks.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm old enough to remember when paintball arenas were created out of abandoned factories. Now we're talking about creating them out of abandoned malls, lol.

When I started playing in the mid 90s, the old mills in places like Lawrence and Lowell and whale oil warehouses in Fall River had indoor courses. Now they've all been gentrified out. There's got to be a dead mall in suburban Boston ripe for conversion somewhere . . .

[Shawn]

Brickell City Center (from the pics at least) reminds me of successful malls in Singapore and KL.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I think many downtowns will actually, over the long-term, be better off due to COVID and the rise of Amazon.

Amazon is a real threat to the viability of malls and big box stores because nearly everything you can get in those centres you can get on Amazon..............in other words they are competition. This is quite unlike downtown stores that offer the items, services, and entertainment that you can't get in the malls, big boxes, or online........they AREN'T competition.

Many people still go the malls for "something to do" and as they not-so-slowly disappear from the urban landscape due to online purchasing, people will need to go other places to their pastimes and downtowns and inner city neighbourhoods will be the only options still standing.

We are seeing this in Canadians cities and even smaller and mid-size ones.............the malls are dying, big boxes are suffering, and yet downtowns are seeing a real rennaisance of not just more goods and services but also soaring populations.

What will make this transition more difficult in the US however is that many of the downtowns are crime ridden and don't offer the effective transit systems needed to get people there.

umm, actually no and no.

no downtowns in the usa are not crime ridden. the back to the city movement continues unabated and downtowns are continually revving up with new residential and the like quite well, all in their own ways.

and no transit is not ineffective in downtowns. quite the opposite, it's often the only place where it is effective. and for decent sized cities with transit, there are always feeders downtown. the ineffectiveness is most often the dearth of circulator services around the city outside the cbd and around the suburbs.

prior to covid, the rule of thumb was you need 20k living downtown to restart successful downtown retail. who knows now though in the era of amazon lockers?

[dave8721]

Brickell City Centre is hurting like everywhere else right now though due to slashed tourism, especially international tourism which makes up a huge chunk of Miami's visitors. Miami cruise visits went from being #1 in the world, now stand at 0, all cruises are still banned. In theory that should all come back in the next year one would hope. Office tenants may never return to previous levels but one would think eventually tourism will return with a vengeance.

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Urban malls will be dead soon if most aren't already.

They have been fighting against the internet now for two decades(sort of). Now they were shut down by the government while internet-based operations were free to operate. And add in this summer with many cities experiencing looting, again, no internet-based operations were impacted.

It's over for them. American cities are about to be even more boring than they already were. All we will be left with are the restaurants that survived lockdowns and salons and dry cleaners.

Yes, I am extremely pessimistic but I have my reasons. The last 7 months have severely impacted my view of the future of American cities. The gains of American urbanity over the last three decades is in fact very fragile. 2020 has done so much harm(government lockdowns, looting, people avoiding going out, increase online shopping, offices going to WFH models...).

This will kill our office markets.
Which will kill local businesses that tend to those workers.
Which will kill the local real estate markets that are geared towards people wanting easy commutes to their offices downtown.
Which will kill transit.

I just looked at a 44 story condo tower here in Chicago. There were 50 rentals listed. One apartment I looked at was listed for 2,400 in June, its now listed for 1800. A 2 bedroom on the 33rd floor in downtown Chicago, 1,800 dollars. One agent told me rentals are typically staying on the market for 8 months now. My school is all online now and my girlfriend's job is 100% online. So we could move to the exurbs and save thousands a year. Plenty of others will make moves like that. I am not, right now. The deals are too good to turn down.

I don't quite understand how so many people who love the urban environment are still so optimistic. I HOPE I AM WRONG. I hope I look so stupid and everyone can make fun of me in a year from now. But what I am seeing isn't looking good.

I recently watched a documentary called "NY 1977, the coolest year in hell!!". It was about nearly bankrupt late 70s NYC as told through the eyes of people in the rap and disco scene. They had some great interviews with Mayor Koch too. It made me feel alot better. CBDs won't become ghostowns but its gonna take a little time for the dust to settle. Remember all those stories about how nimby hippies got rich? Oh they bought in NYC when it was dangerous and cheap! Now is our time to invest!!

[chris08876]

Inside the American Dream Mall Grand Reopening Day 2020!

• Video Link

[chris08876]

I believe the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone has more activity than the American Dream mall.

[PoshSteve]

That is pretty crazy how empty American Dream is! That mall just cant catch a break. Finally opens after 20 years, just to get shut down again for the pandemic a few months later. The malls and lifestyle centers around Cleveland all seem to be back to normal compared to pre-pandemic. My local indoor mall, Beachwood Place, is seeing normal crowds, and doesn't have anymore vacant stores than it has had over the last 10 or so years. Even has new big named stores opening (H&M Home, JD Sports).

Back on topic, we do have two "zombie" downtown malls still. The Galleria has no retail stores, but there are restaurant spaces and a bank that have taken space on the first floor and opened outwards to the streets as opposed to inwards into the mall space. The YMCA also took over a large amount of space and moved their local offices into it, again opening outwards to the street, as opposed to into the mall.

Tower City is the other zombie mall. It still has some retail and restaurant space, and a busy train station that is the hub of our heavy and light rail lines. The property owner has been letting the stores close as their leases are up though, in preparation of redevelopment into a financial/tech hive called Block Land that's going to be focused on blockchain technology. They apparently have financing and some big name tenants lined up. https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and...edrock-detroit

[UrbanImpact]

Another Verticle mall for Miami in addition to the ones I mentioned above, this time with affordable housing above:
https://www.thenextmiami.com/constru...lows-block-55/