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  #41  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 3:11 PM
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Some would say that Alberta is doing what it has to, well Manitoba picks scabs and wonders why its being left in the dust.

Maybe manitoba just needs to find its edge. (That edge is not drunken natives stealing cars for joy rides back the reserve)
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  #42  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feepa View Post
Some would say that Alberta is doing what it has to, well Manitoba picks scabs and wonders why its being left in the dust.

Maybe manitoba just needs to find its edge. (That edge is not drunken natives stealing cars for joy rides back the reserve)
Just when I thought this had deteriorated as far as it could go. Nice.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 12:32 AM
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If previous comments weren't enough, the following article provides an overview of the political and economic landscapes of Canada, take note of references made to Manitoba and the economies of B.C., Alberta, and Saskatchewan.

Western Canada flexes its muscle
Charles Frank, Calgary Herald
Published: Saturday, May 31, 2008

Juggernaut: (1) A huge or overwhelming force or object. (2) an institution or notion to which persons blindly sacrifice themselves or others.

- Canadian Oxford Dictionary Listening to Premier Ed Stelmach and his partner in optimism, Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall, talk about building a western Canadian economic juggernaut this week, it was hard not to feel a touch of that old western pride.

And, to quietly utter one of those Yesssssssssssses! To hear the dangerous duo's excited chatter, you would be hard pressed not to believe the economic worm has finally turned. Riding high on the unholy convergence of record grain, oil, potash, coal and uranium prices, the Alberta and Saskatchewan economies (along with our equally resurgent counterparts in British Columbia) are poised to kick sand in the face of those perennial economic bullies, Ontario and Quebec.

Or so it seems.

That Ontario is allegedly within spitting distance of becoming a so-called have-not province and a recipient of federal-provincial equalization payments instead of being called on to fund its fellow provinces has only added fuel to the fire -- while inflaming our inherent need to see some measure of comeuppance visited upon our eastern neighbours.

After all, it's been a long time coming. That having been said, we also need to take a bit of a deep breath here, folks.

"Things will certainly feel good," says Conference Board of Canada senior vice-president and chief economist Glen Hodgson, of the euphoria that is gripping politicians and regular people alike across the West. "That's what happens when you get high commodity prices." But -- and isn't there always a but -- Hodgson is quick to add that Alberta, B.C. and Saskatchewan still have a ways to go before overtaking Ontario (not to mention Ontario and Quebec combined) in terms of total economic performance.

In case you were wondering, Statistics Canada reports that in 2007 the Ontario economy recorded $532 billion worth of activity, while Quebec chipped in with about $266 billion.

They're still the one-two punch of the Canadian economy, although Alberta is gaining on Quebec and recorded $189.5 billion worth of business activity in 2007. B.C. generated $163 billion and Saskatchewan a mere $39.5 billion.

All told, the economic production of the three far western provinces (we're still not sure what to do about Manitoba, after all the Winnipeg Blue Bombers do play in the CFL's Eastern Conference) is still less than Ontario's. Even adding Manitoba into the total won't change the outcome.

That having been said, Hodgson is also quick to point out that there has indeed been a fundamental sea change when it comes to what is happening across the country, economically speaking.

Driven by unprecedented commodity prices -- I mean really, did you in your wildest dreams ever imagine $300-a-tonne coal, $130-a-barrel oil and potash prices that have jumped by more than $400 a tonne in a single year? -- the sky is the limit for the Saskatchewan, Alberta and B.C. economies.

And while observers like Hodgson acknowledge that while commodity prices have always been cyclical, they also suggest there is every reason to believe that the fluctuations of the current cycle will be different -- if and when prices readjust.

"Even if it is a bubble, there has still been a dramatic change in the global demand for those commodities from countries like China and India." Simply put, he doesn't see that demand for western Canadian commodities abating.

In Ontario, it's a different story.

The changes taking place in the auto industry are creating a negative ripple effect throughout the Ontario economy as entire communities struggle to refocus and redefine their economic futures.

And even the tens of millions of dollars in spinoffs from massive Alberta oilsands developments that are being snapped up by Ontario firms won't be enough to keep the nation's biggest economy from going sideways.

And yes, we're well aware of the delicious irony involved in oilsands contracts propping up the Ontario economy.

"Ontario recognizes they have to do something different (to kick-start their economy)," says Hodgson. "They just don't know what." For longtime Albertans, those are familiar words. In the late 1970s they were the mantra of former premier Peter Lougheed, who pushed the province to lessen its dependence on a single industry -- oil and gas -- to avoid the turmoil and uncertainty caused by commodity price cycles.

That hasn't happened. Oil and gas is still the biggest revenue generator in the province and thanks to record oil and resurgent natural gas prices, that isn't likely to change in the foreseeable future.

Our neighbours in B.C. and Saskatchewan are enjoying similar experiences.


Will that -- and the gains from other commodity windfalls -- be enough to turn us into a juggernaut capable of overtaking Ontario and Quebec and wielding a greater share of economic and political power any time soon? The jury's still out. But for now, its just nice to be riding high in the saddle.

cfrank@theherald.canwest.com

Source
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  #44  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 1:02 AM
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More information, draw your own conclusions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by State of the West 2008

The West’s contribution to Canada’s total GDP (35.3%) is
larger than its share of population (30.4%). The West’s share
of total economic output has risen modestly over the past two
decades; its current share is slightly higher than the average
of 31.1% over the past 20 years. Alberta’s booming economy
and high oil and gas prices have pushed its share of GDP up
considerably. Within the West, Alberta’s share has increased
from 36.1% in 1992 to 47.0% in 2006. In contrast, the shares
of Saskatchewan and Manitoba have declined and are now
half of what they were in the early 1960s.
Source - Chapter 10-13 - Page 8


Source - Chapter 10-13 - Page 8


Quote:
Originally Posted by State of the West 2008

Overall, services producing industries account for
roughly two-thirds of Canada’s total economic output.
Goods producing industries account for the remaining one-third.

Within the West, services producing industries play a
somewhat larger role in the economies of BC and Manitoba.
In Alberta and Saskatchewan, goods producing sectors are
more prominent. One-fifth of Alberta’s economic activity is
in mining and oil and gas extraction. Major goods producing
sectors in Saskatchewan are oil and gas, agriculture, and
mining. As a percentage of provincial output, Manitoba
has the largest manufacturing sector in the West. However,
manufacturing is a larger part of the economy in the rest of
Canada, particularly Ontario and Quebec.
Source - Chapter 10-13 - Page 9


Source - Chapter 10-13 - Page 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by State of the West 2008

The West’s exports are predominantly commodities,
reflecting the region’s comparative advantage in the efficient
and cost-effective extraction of natural resources. The
largest percentage of goods leaving BC for foreign markets
are manufactured goods. However, it is important to note
that much of this is related to forestry. Not surprisingly, oil
and gas sales dominate Alberta’s export mix. Despite its
reputation of being primarily an agricultural province, over
half of Saskatchewan’s exports are from oil and gas extraction
and mining. Manitoba stands out in the West with a relatively
broad array of manufacturing sectors playing a larger role in
terms of total exports.
Source - Chapter 10-13 - Page 20


Source - Chapter 10-13 - Page 20

*NOTE: The above figures do not reflect exports of services, only goods (merchandise).
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  #45  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 1:33 AM
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One stat which sticks out in my mind is the percentage of GDP contributed by Public Admin (aka: government) when comparing Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

Seems like Manitoba needs to streamline its government... and perhaps focus more on growing its private based economy.

Oh yeah ... Manitoba is still in the stone age with its socialist government.

Well at least we can be proud of FAT unions overchargng us for the Floodway expansion. The NDP is keeping there friends well fed while Manitoba falls behind.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 2:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
One stat which sticks out in my mind is the percentage of GDP contributed by Public Admin (aka: government) when comparing Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

Seems like Manitoba needs to streamline its government... and perhaps focus more on growing its private based economy.

Oh yeah ... Manitoba is still in the stone age with its socialist government.

Well at least we can be proud of FAT unions overchargng us for the Floodway expansion. The NDP is keeping there friends well fed while Manitoba falls behind.
Yeah, what's up with that?

Hmmmm, it may be related to the health and social assistance % of Manitoba's GDP, which also happens to be noticeably higher than Saskatchewan.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 4:19 AM
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Originally Posted by feepa View Post
Maybe manitoba just needs to find its edge. (That edge is not drunken natives stealing cars for joy rides back the reserve)
Wow, that is insulting on levels beyond comprehension. You owe me an apology right fucking now.

From reading the slant provided by the "First Nation Issues" thread, I read enough unwarranted insults towards my people on a regular basis. If you have an "issue" then present it in the appropriate thread, or better yet, the appropriate forum board. Freedom of speech is a given, but is this really the right context?
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  #48  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 8:41 AM
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We will always be the gateway to the west
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 2:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hexrae View Post
Wow, that is insulting on levels beyond comprehension. You owe me an apology right fucking now.

From reading the slant provided by the "First Nation Issues" thread, I read enough unwarranted insults towards my people on a regular basis. If you have an "issue" then present it in the appropriate thread, or better yet, the appropriate forum board. Freedom of speech is a given, but is this really the right context?
I have several good friends in Winnipeg. And from what I've heard, feepa is pretty much accurate with his statement. Winnipeg has astronomical native issues; probably the worst in Canada and getting worse every day. From what I've heard, the downtown and several inner city suburb are essentially native reserve slums; dirty, filthy, dingy and truly disgusting. Apparently, natives wander the streets and are aggressively harassing people who just want to enjoy the downtown but are eventually scared off by these sketchy characters. I'm told that the majority of inmates at the jails in Manitoba are native too, so there is probably a correlation be the higher crime rates in Manitoba and the large native populations.

One of my buddy's can't take the native situation in Winnipeg anymore. He claims to have been verbally and physically attacked by natives on several occasions in the downtown core. He's currently looking for a transfer out of Winnipeg asap as he can't stand what the city is turning into. And by the sounds of it, I don't blame him one bit.

I've heard that Winnipeg is being held back by two serious issues; one is the lack of vision and leadership by politicians, and the other is the large amount of natives flocking to the city from the reserves and essentially turning most of the city into a native ghetto.

I haven't been to Winnipeg in quite a while, but by the sounds of it, I wouldn't want to come to a city where you can't even enjoy the downtown core with all this crap going on. I just have no interest in putting of with that crap. I would say that Winnipeg has a long way to go to cleaning itself up, and who knows if the native issue will ever be resolved. And because of this, all other Winnipeggers and the city's reputation will suffer for it and that is unfortunate.

Also, this isn't just restricted to Winnipeg. Apparently from what I've heard, other Manitoba cities/towns like Portage La Prairie, Brandon, Dauphin, Swan River, The Pas, Thompson, etc. are also seeing escalation in increasing native issues and crime rates with growing native populations, particularly up north where it's very racially divided between natives and non-natives. It sounds like Manitoba has some serious contemplating to do in regards to natives, because based on what I've heard, things are going to hell in a hand basket.

Last edited by Markus41; Jun 1, 2008 at 2:26 PM.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 4:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
We will always be the gateway to the west
yup, its not like Manitoba is going to get up and physically trade places with Saskatchewan. So yes, you can hold on to that title.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 4:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feepa View Post
yup, its not like Manitoba is going to get up and physically trade places with Saskatchewan. So yes, you can hold on to that title.
I'm starting to here many say that SASKATCHEWAN IS THE GATEWAY TO THE "NEW WEST"
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus41 View Post
And from what I've heard
From what I've heard
Apparently,I'm told that
He claims to
And by the sounds of it
I've heard that
I haven't been to Winnipeg in quite a while
by the sounds of it,
Apparently from what I've heard
It sounds like Manitoba because
based on what I've heard
That pretty much sums up your argument. Very convincing. Instead of "hearing" things from other people, why don't you experience something for yourself. And until you do, please spare us your hearsay.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 6:08 PM
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That pretty much sums up your argument. Very convincing. Instead of "hearing" things from other people, why don't you experience something for yourself. And until you do, please spare us your hearsay.
What, you can't take the truth?

My remarks are based on what I have heard from Winnipeggers that I know and who have lived in the city for years, and who I would think have a pretty good feel for what goes on in that city. Are you saying that your fellow Winnipeggers are liars?

Most people are aware that Winnipeg has a less-than-inspiring reputation, especially when it comes to the rough native population. Call me prejudice or whatever you want, it's an issue that is there and should be dealt with but clearly isn't. And I would say that most visitors to Winnipeg threads are aware of the native issue since it is brought up consistently and is a big part of what Winnipeg is. Visitors to Winnipeg itself become very aware of the native issue just by going to the downtown and inner suburbs.

Deny it all you want, but it does you no good to do so.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 6:20 PM
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I've heard from people who live in Winnipeg that moved away froma Calagary, Edmonton, Regina etc say bad things about their respective cities, stating that Winnipeg is better, stating that Winnipeg had more "arts" or "culture" or "nicer parks" or more "unique neighborhoods" Perhaps that is why they moved. But then again there are a lot more former Winnipeggers in other cities then former other citiers in Winnipeg...
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 6:23 PM
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No, Port Arthur is the Gateway to the West.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 6:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dennis View Post
I've heard from people who live in Winnipeg that moved away froma Calagary, Edmonton, Regina etc say bad things about their respective cities, stating that Winnipeg is better, stating that Winnipeg had more "arts" or "culture" or "nicer parks" or more "unique neighborhoods" Perhaps that is why they moved. But then again there are a lot more former Winnipeggers in other cities then former other citiers in Winnipeg...
And I'm sure there are many logical and rational reasons for this higher ratio.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis View Post
I've heard from people who live in Winnipeg that moved away froma Calagary, Edmonton, Regina etc say bad things about their respective cities, stating that Winnipeg is better, stating that Winnipeg had more "arts" or "culture" or "nicer parks" or more "unique neighborhoods" Perhaps that is why they moved. But then again there are a lot more former Winnipeggers in other cities then former other citiers in Winnipeg...
lol i like how you never put saskatoon, good work

but this thread is so pointless, its just another my city(province) is better than yours, winnipeg will always be the gateway to the west, they are not an economical weakling. why cant we get along and make fun of those darn eastern cities
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Markus41 View Post
What, you can't take the truth?

My remarks are based on what I have heard from Winnipeggers that I know and who have lived in the city for years, and who I would think have a pretty good feel for what goes on in that city. Are you saying that your fellow Winnipeggers are liars?

Deny it all you want, but it does you no good to do so.
Can you please point out where in my response I called anyone a liar, or denied anything?

Your response simply backs up my last point, you are basing your entire opinion on Winnipeg on secondhand information, it's certainly not the "truth".

If you are so concerned about the well being of this city, why don't you come for a visit and view just how "bad" or "good" this city is for yourself.

It seems to me that you enjoy mining any little knock on Winnipeg that someone writes in this forum for all it's worth.

No one in this forum lives in some urban utopia where everything is perfect. Instead of always coming around this forum to stir shit up and blabber on about what your buddy in Winnipeg says, why don't you strive to make where ever you live perfect. Once it's there, by all means, come post your deep knowledge to us poor 'Peggers.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2008, 1:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpiecowye View Post
lol i like how you never put saskatoon, good work

but this thread is so pointless, its just another my city(province) is better than yours, winnipeg will always be the gateway to the west, they are not an economical weakling. why cant we get along and make fun of those darn eastern cities

I have never met anyone originally from Saskatoon. In fact I have never heard of the city until just a few months ago. All this time, I thought people were talking about berries. This was a life altering experience for me. It made me rethink the way I viewed the world.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2008, 1:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Tower Crane View Post
I'm starting to here many say that SASKATCHEWAN IS THE GATEWAY TO THE "NEW WEST"

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