Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit - Page 501

dmacc · #**10001** Posted **May 14, 2019, 4:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There was no difference in my bus ride this morning. The driver sat there silent as usual. I paid my fare and boarded. I have no issue with drivers wanting safe working conditions. That's their right of course. But again it's a union driving a wedge. Why I see no value in them for this type of situation.

buzzg · #**10002** Posted **May 14, 2019, 4:43 PM**

I'd be very curious to know what the total cost of fare enforcement is here. Costs of maintaining and upgrading the fareboxes, Peggo, ticket/pass distribution and production, human cost (driver issues), etc. Like, how much money is WT actually generating after expenses related to payment – I wonder if it's much, and if just not charging for Transit should be considered, not to mention all the spinoff benefits of free transit.

Curmudgeon · #**10003** Posted **May 14, 2019, 5:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Most of you don't remember or weren't born at the time, but WT had a massive (no buses at all) for 3 weeks in February 1976......

I haven't thought of that in years. It's was the talk of the town but people dealt with it. Winnipeg was (and still is, though perhaps less so) a big small town so neighbours would ask it you needed a ride anywhere or family and friends who had cars helped out more, especially for students and older people (primarily women, at the time few aged 55+ women drove). I remember that hitchhiking in the city was common during the strike and at the time was considered quite safe, though the police did caution people.

Gm0ney · #**10004** Posted **May 14, 2019, 5:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzg

I'd be very curious to know what the total cost of fare enforcement is here. Costs of maintaining and upgrading the fareboxes, Peggo, ticket/pass distribution and production, human cost (driver issues), etc. Like, how much money is WT actually generating after expenses related to payment – I wonder if it's much, and if just not charging for Transit should be considered, not to mention all the spinoff benefits of free transit.

Fares provide 45% of Winnipeg Transit's revenues - around $85 million/year. Even if you spend $10000/year per bus on fare boxes, collection and enforcement, that's only $6,000,000/year.

bomberjet · #**10005** Posted **May 14, 2019, 5:59 PM**

Question re: drivers.

Is it or is it not their job to enforce fares? I've heard it both ways on here.

dmacc · #**10006** Posted **May 14, 2019, 6:09 PM**

The ATU were passing out leaflets yesterday that state "Per the Transit Operators Manual, operators are responsible for informing passengers of the fare when applicable and monitoring fare payment".

I'm not sure if you could argue that means they are responsible for fare enforcement.

esquire · #**10007** Posted **May 14, 2019, 6:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmacc

The ATU were passing out leaflets yesterday that state "Per the Transit Operators Manual, operators are responsible for informing passengers of the fare when applicable and monitoring fare payment".

I'm not sure if you could argue that means they are responsible for fare enforcement.

I suppose it's a bit like the ticket-takers at MTS Centre. They take your ticket, but if you attempt to bum rush the gate it's not the ticket-takers that are going to tackle and restrain you.

bomberjet · #**10008** Posted **May 14, 2019, 6:16 PM**

Okay. So they'll let you know, but when you walk past them without paying they'll just carry on.

I guess I ask because when you board the bus, they sit and wait with the door open until your fare is charged. Usually they just let you go by if you have no fare. But will they ever tell you to get off? Why would they sit with the door open waiting for your fare?

Just trying to figure out exactly what's supposed to be done and why they do things.

Curmudgeon · #**10009** Posted **May 14, 2019, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gm0ney

Fares provide 45% of Winnipeg Transit's revenues - around $85 million/year. Even if you spend $10000/year per bus on fare boxes, collection and enforcement, that's only $6,000,000/year.

It has been estimated that fare evasion costs Winnipeg Transit $3 million per year in lost revenue. There is no way an independent transit police force or using the WPS for enforcement would cost less than that, it would cost multiple times more for administration alone. 97% of Transit users are paying their fare. I have seldom witnessed anyone boarding the bus without paying, even 3% seems high to me. I did myself once because all I had was a $5 bill and the driver waived the fare and said put it in next time, which I did. It's a non issue and a deflection. Drivers should be able to use their own reasonable judgment. If the person looks desperately poor and/or intoxicated on a cold winter's night then my goodness, let them ride. I don't think that there would be many people that would take issue with that.

dmacc · #**10010** Posted **May 14, 2019, 6:26 PM**

^ having the fare at a $2.95 or anywhere within 10-15 cents of a quarter probably helps recoup the cost of fare evasion. Before I got a Peggo card I would just pay $3 and be on my way. I imagine most people do this unless they happen to have exact change.

Ando · #**10011** Posted **May 14, 2019, 6:56 PM**

I always find it sad that on the "rapid" transit thread there is little discussion about actual "rapid" transit. It's pathetic that we are still waiting for a few kilometres of BRT to be finished. Winnipeg is far behind pretty much every major city in terms of transit. If governments don't get behind it, it will never happen.

esquire · #**10012** Posted **May 14, 2019, 7:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ando

I always find it sad that on the "rapid" transit thread there is little discussion about actual "rapid" transit. It's pathetic that we are still waiting for a few kilometres of BRT to be finished. Winnipeg is far behind pretty much every major city in terms of transit. If governments don't get behind it, it will never happen.

Ha. In some ways it feels like a small miracle that even the SW BRT line is being completed ("completed" as long as you overlook the fact that the exclusive ROW terminates at the Winter Club instead of downtown, as well as the other various shortcomings).

dmacc · #**10013** Posted **May 14, 2019, 7:05 PM**

I went for a walk on Sunday and it appears the NB Clarence Station is almost finished. Most of the trails are roughed in and just need asphalt. The progress should be quick over the next couple months.

bomberjet · #**10014** Posted **May 14, 2019, 7:07 PM**

Only a few short months left to substantial completion. There will likely be lingering things such as landscaping into next year. Things that don't impact the operation of Transit.

optimusREIM · #**10015** Posted **May 14, 2019, 7:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Ha. In some ways it feels like a small miracle that even the SW BRT line is being completed ("completed" as long as you overlook the fact that the exclusive ROW terminates at the Winter Club instead of downtown, as well as the other various shortcomings).

If we want to get serious we need a line bisecting downtown which operates as a true spine for transit. I think even two lines would make a giant difference in the efficiency of the whole system. Three would be ideal.

Wpg_Guy · #**10016** Posted **May 14, 2019, 7:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Ha. In some ways it feels like a small miracle that even the SW BRT line is being completed ("completed" as long as you overlook the fact that the exclusive ROW terminates at the Winter Club instead of downtown, as well as the other various shortcomings).

It’s a ridiculous setup the buses should be going out to Main.

esquire · #**10017** Posted **May 14, 2019, 7:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

It’s a ridiculous setup the buses should be going out to Main.

I realize it isn't an "either or", but a new bridge over the Assiniboine to complete the SW BRT would to my mind be more useful than replacing the Arlington Bridge.

cheswick · #**10018** Posted **May 14, 2019, 8:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I realize it isn't an "either or", but a new bridge over the Assiniboine to complete the SW BRT would to my mind be more useful than replacing the Arlington Bridge.

Really something to serve the south would be more useful to you than something to serve the North End? Colour me shocked.

Gm0ney · #**10019** Posted **May 14, 2019, 8:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

It has been estimated that fare evasion costs Winnipeg Transit $3 million per year in lost revenue. There is no way an independent transit police force or using the WPS for enforcement would cost less than that, it would cost multiple times more for administration alone. 97% of Transit users are paying their fare. I have seldom witnessed anyone boarding the bus without paying, even 3% seems high to me. I did myself once because all I had was a $5 bill and the driver waived the fare and said put it in next time, which I did. It's a non issue and a deflection. Drivers should be able to use their own reasonable judgment. If the person looks desperately poor and/or intoxicated on a cold winter's night then my goodness, let them ride. I don't think that there would be many people that would take issue with that.

Oh I don't think they need to spend more money/time/effort on enforcement. I was replying to buzzg who was wondering if the costs of collecting any fares at all was worth it. It definitely is worth it to collect fares, even after the costs of Peggo and associated admin.

esquire · #**10020** Posted **May 14, 2019, 8:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheswick

Really something to serve the south would be more useful to you than something to serve the North End? Colour me shocked.

There are already two crossings under/over the CP tracks barely a stone's throw away from Arlington. But OK.