NEW YORK | Amazon - Long Island City | CANCELED

[JMKeynes]

I hope that Amazon goes to a business-friendly city like Dallas and thrives.

I’m very disappointed in New York’s absurd, Marxist approach to this.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I hope that Amazon goes to a business-friendly city like Dallas and thrives.

I’m very disappointed in New York’s absurd, Marxist approach to this.

I doubt they will. They chose NY and DC for employment purposes, not really for particular business practices. And they really didn't have to leave.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I doubt they will. They chose NY and DC for employment purposes, not really for particular business practices. And they really didn't have to leave.

I hope they do as a snack in the face to NY’s Marxist politicians.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by NYguy

They had nothing to lose if they couldn't. We'll see what happens in Virginia. The thing about those job numbers, it wasn't going to be 25,000 jobs and workers dumped on LIC at once. Just like the tax credits they were to receive, it was to take place over a decade and beyond. Remember, the initial goal was 50,000 before the headquarters was split in two. That's why we city different municipalities still trying to get Amazon to reconsider. It would be foolish to walk away from that type of economic development.

I feel this really makes it all clear how much of a lie this all was though, there was never any HQ2 only satellite offices that already exist all over the country. They have to have a large presence in DC area for potential federal contracts and who knows if that will ever reach 25,000.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by The North One

I feel this really makes it all clear how much of a lie this all was though, there was never any HQ2 only satellite offices that already exist all over the country. They have to have a large presence in DC area for potential federal contracts and who knows if that will ever reach 25,000.

And who knows that it won't? If it doesn't, it doesn't, but whatever amount of jobs Amazon would have brought to any city is more than if they didn't go at all.

I think this piece says it all on the ignorance surrounding this drama...



https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-new-york.html

I’m Really Upset About Losing Amazon’s HQ2
New Yorkers thought they’d actually give money to Amazon. Both politicians and the press failed to give them the facts.


By MIKE PESCA
FEB 15, 2019

New York Mayor Bill de Blasio had called Amazon’s decision to move to Queens the single biggest economic development deal in New York City history. And that means he just lost the single biggest economic development deal in New York City history.

Amazon was supposed to get $3 billion in subsidies. In exchange, New York state was to get $27 billion flowing into its coffers. Any business in the world would have gotten most of those subsidies by law. Not just the massive, wealthy ones.

Maybe the narrative around Jeff Bezos and his helicopter bothered you, but let’s not focus on emotion. Let’s focus on the $3 billion in subsidies and $27 billion over 25 years that Amazon would have given the state and city.

We could offer poor, down-on-their-luck business owners some subsidies when they bring 25,000 jobs into New York City, but I don’t think those are the types who have 25,000 jobs to create. It’s almost as if the more great-paying jobs a company has to offer, the more likely it is that its CEO is very well-compensated. There are exceptions, but this is the rule, and it shouldn’t have upset New Yorkers to the point of saying “no” to billions of dollars in investment.

Amazon didn’t need the subsidies. It just wants them. But isn’t this just an example of the rich getting richer? It is, by $3 billion. But you know who else would have gotten richer? Every New Yorker, by $27 billion. Of course, there are only 20 million New Yorkers, so it really comes out to only around $1,350. If I offered you $1,350, but it meant that a very, very wealthy man who doesn’t need the money would also get rich, would you take that? I’m sure within Amazon they tell employees, “Guys, we had a great quarter, and you’re all going to get a raise,” and some socially conscious employees say, “Wait a minute, if we had a great quarter, and I’m getting a raise, does Jeff Bezos also benefit?” Indeed, he does. “Then I reject my raise.” Yeah, right.

I’m really upset. And I’m upset not because I was on the losing side of what I think is a fair debate. I really believed this would be good for the people of New York. It would be a strain on the specific neighborhood, Long Island City, that Amazon was going to go into. But I know that what defeated this deal was mostly asinine misperceptions and ignorance. I would have loved to sit down with de Blasio and Cuomo and give them a little communications advice.

We have a PR problem here. All we need to do is educate people about a fact: Most New Yorkers think their taxes actually go to Amazon: that when they write a check at the end of the year to New York City, or New York state, or when they get some of their paycheck money withheld, some portion of that would go to Amazon and Jeff Bezos’ helicopter. We know that’s not true.

Maybe we make fun of Bezos and his helicopter, vilify him a little bit. Maybe we say: Your taxes are not going to woo Amazon. That’s not how it works. What we did is we gave Amazon a coupon or did what a bar does for happy hour.

Here’s how the math works: We get 25,000 employees. They’re making an average of $150,000 each. That’s $400 million. There’ll probably be more employees than that, and they’re probably going to get paid more than that. It’s a great deal. You’re getting richer, too. Is Amazon getting richer? Yeah. That’s fine. You’re getting richer.

Let’s say Madison Square Garden announced a plan to add 59 seats. Would you say, “We can’t do it”? Fifty-nine seats, compared to the capacity of Madison Square Garden, is proportionally the same as 25,000 jobs in a city of 8.6 million people. Let’s say we’re adding 36 more taxis. Are you really going to worry about “What are we going to do with all the extra taxis?” But 36 more taxis, out of the 13,000 taxis, is the same as an increase of 25,000 to a city of 8.6 million people.

The most important number is $27 billion. It’s more than a billion dollars a year for 25 years. Don’t you want those billions? We’re going to help Long Island City. If you’re against this Amazon deal, you’re against the billion dollars a year for the rest of us. This is the rest of us versus the activists and, perhaps, one very vocal member of Congress who’s from the neighboring district of Long Island City.

If you were wondering, this site was not even in Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s district. It was in Rep. Carolyn Maloney’s district. Maloney has been in office for 26 years. She was steamrolled by the more impassioned Ocasio-Cortez, who has been in office for 43 days. My message to Maloney, who is pro-Amazon but didn’t do anything about it, is about a communications overhaul. I would tell her: Get a new communications director or, better yet, a whole new media staff. Or, you know what, just quit Congress. Because if you’re going to get dunked on like this, it will be an embarrassment to you personally and a disservice to the people of New York who just lost out on—one more time for the people in the back—a billion dollars a year.

Maloney really should have spoken out more and sooner...


https://freebeacon.com/politics/malo...otesting-jobs/

"My constituents want jobs," Maloney said.

"This was 25,000 jobs," said Burnett, prompting Maloney to say this was a "minimum" amount of jobs.

"It would have been many, many more; 25,00 jobs at $150,000 minimum for the job," Maloney said. "There were promises for a new school, and as a former teacher, I was intrigued with their plans to have a curriculum in 30 different schools supported by Amazon on high tech. We should be really diversifying our base of taxes, our base of businesses. We are too dependent on financial services."

"It used to be that we would protest wars. Now we are protesting jobs? People are complaining about jobs coming to your [city] … If this had gone through, it would have made overnight New York City the high-tech capital of the east coast, the most important job center for tech jobs."

"I'm a progressive too, but I'm pragmatic. If someone is going to bring a job to my district and my city and billions of dollars in tax revenue—you also had a story this week that we were $3 billion under projected revenues for the state and roughly $1 billion under projected—this is the first quarter. We are $4 billion less than we usually get and yet we are kicking out a company that was projecting over 10 years roughly $27 billion in taxes," Maloney said.

"I am disappointed. It used to be if you wanted to change something, you worked with the contract to change it," she continued. "They just said, ‘We don't want it,' and they are demonstrating against it and it's jobs. It's jobs. I've never seen anything like this."

[NYguy]

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...215-story.html

Cutting off our nose to spite our face: Amazon's pullout will be bad for the very workers that opponents of the deal claim to care about


By HECTOR FIGUEROA
Figueroa is president of 32BJ Service Employees International Union.
FEB 15, 2019

...despite strong public support for the project, including from communities of color that would have benefited from the thousands of good union jobs spurred by the development, opposition from a few progressive organizations — many of which I have historically considered allies — created enough controversy to make Amazon abandon the project.

...let’s look at the reality we have to face in the current scenario and compare the incentives offered by many other states and more importantly in relation to the taxes Amazon was actually on the hook to pay to New York.

Maryland was offering a $8.5 billion incentive package! In New York, the vast majority of the $3 billion in total subsidies was “performance-based” — meaning Amazon would get back from the city and the state a portion of the tax revenue it generated. Some of my progressive friends liked to carp about the city and state “giving” billions to Amazon instead of spending those funds on affordable housing or fixing the MTA. That was just a blatant mischaracterization.

The reality is that the tax incentives for Amazon were not taken from existing funds that could have been spent on other priorities but rather were structured to be a small fraction of the tax revenue the company would pay or generate to the city and state — with the majority of that new revenue available for precisely the priorities activists are clamoring for. But it’s easier to muster righteous indignation when you ignore the facts, so here we are.

In the meantime, Amazon’s opponents can claim that they “saved” some $3 billion in corporate welfare — but at the cost of about $25 billion in revenue for New York City in the coming decades. To put it in context, this is more money than the millionaires’ tax, a major progressive priority, would generate over the same period of time. Instead that money has just been flushed down the toilet — or technically given to the state of Virginia (though Virginia’s taxes are considerably lower, so locating there means that less of the company’s considerable wealth would be taxed and redistributed through public investments than would have had they stayed in NYC). Victory?

What exactly do Amazon’s opponents have to celebrate? Ending the race to the bottom of corporate welfare? Nope. Blocking Amazon’s development of facial recognition software — or ICE’s use of it? Nope. Better working conditions or union representation for Amazon workers? Nope. They have succeeded in eliminating billions of dollars in revenue to make desperately needed investments in public transit and affordable housing harder not easier. They have succeeded in eliminating more than 25,000 jobs, about 40% of which don’t require a college degree, that New York City residents need and want.

[Eidolon]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I’m very disappointed in New York’s absurd, Marxist approach to this.

Agreed! Hopefully all these people get voted out in 2020!

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Eidolon

Agreed! Hopefully all these people get voted out in 2020!

We can only hope. There's anger about this, and it's a cautionary tale that will be remembered. It's sort of the modern day Westway, one of the classic NIMBY battles.



https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ticle-1.818854

How the 'Soot Lady' and striped bass defeated the Westway development project

She was the Soot Lady. He was a no-nonsense federal judge. And along with the two of them were the striped bass that mated in the Hudson River.

Together, they took on and defeated the grandest, costliest, most ambitious public-works project ever proposed for New York.

It was called Westway a $2 billion highway and waterfront development earmarked for Manhattan's lower West Side.

Never had a project of this magnitude enjoyed such a well-oiled bandwagon. The big wheels of labor endorsed it for the jobs. Powerful business interests backed it for the benefits to the economy. And the politicians loved it because here was the ultimate pork barrel the federal government had agreed to pay $1.7 billion of the cost.

Who could find fault with a sleek, covered, 4.2-mile, six-lane highway between W. 42nd St. and the Battery?

Who could disagree with the idea of housing and commercial development atop the highway's roof, plus the magnificent waterfront park that would replace the rotting Hudson piers?

Who could object when construction would involve no relocation and the existing 12th Ave. roadway was falling apart anyway?

Who could oppose a project that the state's senior senator, Daniel Moynihan, said would do for the 20th century what Central Park had done for the 19th?

The Soot Lady, the federal judge and their fishy friends, that's who. And in the end, they prevailed.

The full article is a pretty good condensed version of the story.

[Halsted & Villagio]

Mistakes and miscalculations were clearly made on both sides. Without question these politicians deserve part of the blame. They played fast and loose with the facts and/or simply failed to brush up on the facts, figures and economics of this deal. They deserve part of the blame and a high degree of scrutiny moving forward.

But lets not turn this into a conservative vs. progressive/liberal fight. America was/is built upon free speech and the right to voice opposition. In the hard scrabble world of big city politics, you don't run from political skirmishes. You hang in there, you build regardless and turn a deaf ear to the opposition... or you negotiate... but either way, you fight through it. In fact, opposition could have worked to the betterment of this deal if Amazon would have sat down with these politicians, conceded a few points and hammered out at least the appearance of a deal that would have allowed this MINORITY group to save face and feel like they accomplished something. But in essence, Amazon was too arrogant to do that. They knew they had something of benefit to give and thought it beneath them to have to justify their gift -- they thought it beneath them to face opposition... so they left/ditched the deal and ran home.

The long and short of it is Amazon was looking for an escape hatch, plain and simple. The political opposition thingy is merely a red herring... an excuse to ditch the deal. If this company really wanted to be in New York, they would be in New York.

Arrogance and hubris is at the heart of much of this -- on all sides.


Hyde Park/Chicago

[atlwarrior]

Why wouldn’t Amazon drop the subsidies and continue with NYC. If it’s really about attracting talents Amazon would have made it happen without tax cuts.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio

Mistakes and miscalculations were clearly made on both sides. Without question these politicians deserve part of the blame. They played fast and loose with the facts and/or simply failed to brush up on the facts, figures and economics of this deal. They deserve part of the blame and a high degree of scrutiny moving forward.

But lets not turn this into a conservative vs. progressive/liberal fight.

There were people from both sides who complained about the deal. Its not really a progressive vs. liberal or conservative fight. But there are some on that side who have other agendas, and didn't care about the basic issues (jobs, jobs, and jobs). There were things brought up throughout the hearings (unionization and ICE of all things) that had absolutely NOTHING to do with this development. But people behaved badly anyway. This was a case of NIMBYism run amok and idealogues who only cared about their own agendas, including some of the politicians who only had scores to settle. It was just sad and infuriating to watch at the same time. New York inflicted a black eye upon itself. As the saying goes, those activists and NIMBYs snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.




https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/ny-s...azon-deal.html



https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...ess-ncna971806



https://www.telegraphjournal.com/gre...n-new-york-hq2

Originally Posted by atlwarrior

Why wouldn’t Amazon drop the subsidies and continue with NYC. If it’s really about attracting talents Amazon would have made it happen without tax cuts.

They could have, and still could. But then there's that yearlong process of putting all of those cities through that useless competition. The criticism they would get if they just said "nevermind, we were going to take NY anyway" is nothing compared to the NIMBYism they are fighting now. Even though they've said it wasn't just about the subsidies.

But like I mentioned in the GOOGLE thread, if Amazon had come in stealth mode, no one would have known what type of expansion they were planning (it's a few thousand per year over 10 to 15 years). But because they wanted to house all of their offices in one space or campus, something like that needs approval, and you can't hide it.

What Amazon could still do, is just move to Manhattan in phases. We know LIC was the cheapest option in the city, but they were shown sites on the west side as well that they could still take advantage of. Amazon leased 400,000 sf at Manhattan West last year. Brookfield is moving ahead with 2 Manhattan West, a 2 msf tower. Amazon could lease half of that, and they'd be on their way. Then there is the Farley Building that also has about 800,000 sf coming online in a couple of years, just across the street from Manhattan West, and right above the Amtrak station, providing easy access to DC. But if it's the heliport Bezos still needs, there's also 3 Hudson Boulevard under construction on the west side, with nearly 2 msf. There are no tenants signed there. And it's like a block away from a heliport! They could just move in over time, and they'd get what they wanted anyway. Just no big media circus, and nothing for the NIMBYs to grasp onto.

Most of the people in the city were in favor of Amazon, but most people don't bother showing up at hearings to voice support. Most people in the city have ordinary lives, and they go about trying to live them daily. It's only the people on the fringe that have time to show up for protest or hearings and make elaborate and irrelevant signs. They're look at by everyone else as just a sideshow. But as we've just seen, they can be dangerous.

When the story first broke a week ago that Amazon might be pulling out, only then did the alarms go off, and sane people started rallying to Amazon's defense. But Amazon - even after meeting with the mayor and neighborhood groups the following week - decided to shock everyone, and just drop the campus. Maybe they just decided the whole thing wasn't a good idea. The NIMBYism was just a convenient cover.

But everyone has a theory...


https://pagesix.com/2019/02/16/staff...274.1472490269

Staffers speculate Amazon ditched HQ2 deal to help Bezos’ love life

By Mara Siegler
February 16, 2019

Beyond all the local political intrigue and infighting surrounding Amazon pulling out of a planned new headquarters in Queens, sources told Page Six that there is watercooler talk among staffers at the Seattle tech giant that the deal fizzling had a hidden upside for Amazon leader Jeff Bezos.

“Bezos does not want to be under media scrutiny,” said a source. “New York is America’s media capital. Since the [Lauren] Sanchez story broke, he realizes what it would be like to be in the city a couple of days a week.”

Just a month before the Amazon pullout, ­Bezos’ bombshell relationship with Sanchez was revealed by the National Enquirer, and the Amazon boss announced publicly that his marriage to his wife of 25 years was over.

Sanchez has been spotted in New York once since then.

But another source inside Amazon strongly insisted of backing out of the so-called HQ2 deal: “The decision had nothing to do with ­Bezos’ personal situation. Amazon has been scrutinized by the media its entire business life. The entire leadership was involved in making the decision” to scrap the Queens headquarters. The source said it was a “stretch” to link the plan being scuttled to ­Bezos’ current personal life.

https://qns.com/story/2019/02/15/mos...on-bailed-out/

Most of iconic Long Island City tower may be empty for months now that Amazon deal fell apart


By Bill Parry
February 15, 2019

When Amazon announced it would create its HQ2 campus in Long Island City in November it signed a letter of intent to lease most of One Court Square, the 50-story office tower that used to be known as the Citicorp Building, as a temporary headquarters during the massive build out planned for Anable Basin.

Amazon planned on moving in 700 employees at One Court Square this year and expanding its presence to nearly 3,000 workers in 2020.

Savanna, the real estate company that bought the tower last year and said it was thrilled that Amazon had selected One Court Square, now needs to find a new tenant after the e-commerce giant pulled out of its HQ2 deal on Feb. 14.

Without new tenants, the tower will be mostly empty in about 10 months — making it one of the first casualties of the Amazon failure.

Citigroup, the building’s anchor tenant since it opened in 1990, planned to move most of its employees out of the tower and vacate a million square feet on 31 floors of office space a year before its lease was up to make way for Amazon — and even though the e-commerce giant cancelled its deal with the state and city on Feb. 14, Citigroup is not going to stay put.

“Our Long Island City presence consists of One Court Square and Two Court Square, where we have 3,000 and 500 people respectively,” a Citigroup spokesperson said. “In order to accommodate Amazon’s plans to build a headquarters in Long Island City, we had planned to move about 1,500 people at One Court Square to other floors there or to Two Court Square.

“While these transitional plans may change, our long-term plans to relocate most of our current employees in Long Island City to other New York metropolitan area locations have not changed. Our lease at One Court Square ends in 2020 and at that point, we will have at least 1,000 people at Two Court Square,” the spokesperson added.

[prageethSL]

Ocasio-Cortez celebrates Amazon canceling New York offices

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) on Thursday celebrated Amazon's decision to cancel its plans to build a second headquarters in New York City.

"Today was the day a group of dedicated, everyday New Yorkers & their neighbors defeated Amazon’s corporate greed, its worker exploitation, and the power of the richest man in the world," Ocasio-Cortez, one of the deal's staunchest critics, wrote.

Her statement came shortly after Amazon in a blog post announced that it was canceling its plan to build offices, dubbed "HQ2," in Queens, citing pushback from "a number of state and local politicians."

Ocasio-Cortez in recent months joined the chorus of local politicians and advocates slamming the Amazon deal as corrupt and potentially harmful to local residents. Critics focused much of their ire on New York City's decision to offer $3 billion in state and city incentives to lure in Amazon, as well as the company's anti-union track record.

The self-described democratic socialist had criticized the tax breaks for Amazon, as well as the company’s hiring practices and wages.

Ocasio-Cortez said her future constituents voiced "outrage" when Amazon first announced that it would be splitting its new North American headquarters between New York and and Northern Virginia. The congresswoman, at the time newly elected, now represents parts of Queens, where the new headquarters was slated for construction.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by prageethSL

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pdfdugVPVYE

They're just dumb. She's a congresswoman who wasn't at all involved with the decision making, and had no bearing on the process.

And no, we won't be getting into her politics or the politics of FOX news.

[NYguy]

https://nypost.com/2019/02/16/amazon...-for-the-ages/

Amazon’s HQ2 pullout was a Valentine’s break up for the ages

By Jonathon Trugman
February 16, 2019

So Amazon’s Jeff Bezos divorced NYC on Valentine’s Day and certainly broke a lot of hearts, but he received no love in return for the greatest gift a company can give a city — jobs, 25,000 of them.

The deal would have brought the hotly pursued, high-paying Amazon to Long Island City for a mere $3 billion of tax incentives (if targets were reached), and generated an estimated $27 billion in tax revenue.

Bill de Blasio is not happy with this breakup...



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/o...de-blasio.html

Bill de Blasio: The Path Amazon Rejected
It could have answered the concerns of citizens. Instead it bolted.

By Bill de Blasio
Mr. de Blasio is mayor of New York City.

Feb. 16, 2019

The first word I had that Amazon was about to scrap an agreement to bring 25,000 new jobs to New York City came an hour before it broke in the news on Thursday.

The call was brief and there was little explanation for the company’s reversal.

Just days before, I had counseled a senior Amazon executive about how they could win over some of their critics. Meet with organized labor. Start hiring public housing residents. Invest in infrastructure and other community needs. Show you care about fairness and creating opportunity for the working people of Long Island City.

There was a clear path forward. Put simply: If you don’t like a small but vocal group of New Yorkers questioning your company’s intentions or integrity, prove them wrong.

Instead, Amazon proved them right. Just two hours after a meeting with residents and community leaders to move the project forward, the company abruptly canceled it all.

I am a lifelong progressive who sees the problem of growing income and wealth inequality. The agreement we struck with Amazon back in November was a solid foundation. It would have created: at least 25,000 new jobs, including for unionized construction and service workers; partnerships with public colleges; and $27 billion in new tax revenue to fuel priorities from transit to affordable housing — a ninefold return on the taxes the city and state were prepared to forgo to win the headquarters.

Amazon’s capricious decision to take its ball and go home, in the face of protest, won’t diminish that anger.

The city and state were holding up our end. And more important, a sizable majority of New Yorkers were on board. Support for the new headquarters was strongest in communities of color and among working people who too often haven’t gotten the economic opportunity they deserved. A project that could’ve opened a path to the middle class for thousands of families was scuttled by a few very powerful people sitting in a boardroom in Seattle.

In the end, Amazon seemed unwilling to bend or even to talk in earnest with the community about ways to shape their project. They didn’t want to be in a city where they had to engage critics at all. And it’s a pattern. When Seattle’s City Council passed a tax on big employers to fund the battle against homelessness, the company threatened to stop major expansion plans, putting 7,000 jobs at risk. The tax was rescinded.

Economic power — the kind that allows you to dangle 50,000 jobs and billions in revenue over every metropolitan area in the country — is being steadily concentrated into fewer and fewer hands.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by atlwarrior

Why wouldn’t Amazon drop the subsidies and continue with NYC. If it’s really about attracting talents Amazon would have made it happen without tax cuts.

How much would that really have mattered? The tax breaks were just one of many gripes opponents had with this deal. If we're going to say 30% of NYC residents opposed the deal then maybe if Amazon returned the tax breaks it would still be 25%. 3 Billion is a lot of money to give up for such an incremental gain. And Amazon would never be willing to give the concessions that the leftists really wanted as their whole business model is based on being low cost so why even both trying to meet them half way?

Although the other real hypocrisy of all this that hasn't been getting much press is the fact that NYC is home to most of the big banks whose business practices are much more exploitative than anything Amazon has yet to cook up. I haven't really seen any opposition to these banks since Occupy Wall Street and that fizzled out pretty quickly. I know the big tech companies are the current corporate bogymen now after some of the scandals at places like Facebook and Google, but one would have to assume that will blow over pretty quickly too.

[Utah_Dave]

Im a little bit tired of all the protesters these days. I don’t think they would had this much sway in the past. The new social media seems to allow for the few to amplify their voice to the point that it drowns out the ability for discussion and negotiation. Media then jumps on board and hypes the issue all the while real news goes silently by without the real homework journalism needs. The inability to negotiate is what is so stunning in this case.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

How much would that really have mattered? The tax breaks were just one of many gripes opponents had with this deal. If we're going to say 30% of NYC residents opposed the deal then maybe if Amazon returned the tax breaks it would still be 25%. 3 Billion is a lot of money to give up for such an incremental gain.

They were going to protest no matter what. They brought up a lot of issues with Amazon, and some may have even been legit - in another place, at another time. Whatever issues they had with Amazon, they probably have with almost every other corporation in the city. They're not trying to kick them out.

But as people keep trying to get them to understand, the issues they were griping about locally - subways, affordable housing, schools, etc. - those were issues that are affordable because of taxes businesses pay. So, the complaint about the $3 billion tax rebate was just dumb. New York would have gotten back so much more. As for all of the other political issues, they were foolish to think anything would be settled at a hearing. And they were selfish enough to want to throw away 25,000 jobs or any of the other benefits to the city. As someone pointed out before, having Amazon with a much larger presence in the city would have afforded the protesters the oppurtunity to engage them here, where it would probably matter more.

Originally Posted by Utah_Dave

Im a little bit tired of all the protesters these days. I don’t think they would had this much sway in the past. The new social media seems to allow for the few to amplify their voice to the point that it drowns out the ability for discussion and negotiation.

Well in America, you still have the right to protest. The issue is the leaders that have been elected to lead, and some of the politicians forgot about that. They may have had their eyes on the next election rather than what would best benefit the city. No spine, and no balls.

[mrnyc]

that whole lic amazon hq2 area is going to continue to fill up with apartment buildings of the type that residents equally as somewhat wealthy as the amazon employees would have had to pay. so who cares if its amazon employee money or their mom and dads money or whatever else that pays for it, they will live in the city, work, spend money, pay taxes.

its not a one to one tradeoff, but still lic remains a bustling and growing area.

while it was beyond the beyond dumb to chase hq2 of 2 away, in the end, meh.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

that whole lic amazon hq2 area is going to continue to fill up with apartment buildings of the type that residents equally as somewhat wealthy as the amazon employees would have had to pay. so who cares if its amazon employee money or their mom and dads money or whatever else that pays for it, they will live in the city, work, spend money, pay taxes.

its not a one to one tradeoff, but still lic remains a bustling and growing area.

while it was beyond the beyond dumb to chase hq2 of 2 away, in the end, meh.

These things have a way of coming back to bite you in the ass. The city, which has been trying for decades to expand it's central business districts outside of Manhattan had a golden opportunity here for a mega-expansion that no doubt would have led to more expansion in Queens. There is some business began to take shape in LIC, but not necessarily game changers, and especially in the short run, there is a 1 msf office tower that needs tenants. The tenants who will (hopefully) fill up this tower are probably tenants that could have otherwise filled up another commercial enterprise in LIC.

There's not denying that this was a terrible outcome for New York City. Did NYC need Amazon? Would it have benefited greatly by having Amazon building it's campus in LIC, placing 25,000 to 40,000 workers there, in turn further fueling expansion and economic growth to LIC? Hell yeah. While LIC will continue to develop, the difference between having that massive campus there, and not is like night and day.



https://qns.com/story/2019/02/19/aft...g-island-city/

After early divisions, organized labor laments loss of Amazon HQ2 deal in Long Island City


By Bill Parry
February 19, 2019

Unions representing thousands of workers across the city were split early on about Amazon’s plan for Long Island City — but were united in lament after the retail giant derailed their proposal last week.

When Amazon’s anti-union policies were exposed during a City Council oversight committee hearing last month when a company executive, Brian Huseman, told Councilman Jimmy Van Bramer that he could not support labor neutrality for workers in Long Island City, the gallery exploded in protest.

But outside City Hall that day, construction workers and labor unions rallied in support of the deal that the state and city struck with Amazon to build its HQ2 campus at Anable Basin and create 25,000 good-paying jobs over 10 years, with a plan to grow to 40,000 over 15 years.

Local 32BJ of the Service Employees International Union had carved out a position that Amazon, which doesn’t have a single unionized facility anywhere is the country, might adopt a more labor neutral posture once it was established in progressive and pro-union New York City.

“Amazon’s new headquarters will be a model for how organized labor can power the next generation of U.S. companies to greater success,” 32BJ SEIU Political Director Alison Hirsh said during the rally. “These new jobs and significant neighborhood commitments will help uplift Queens families and the city as a whole.”

32BJ SEIU had already secured a commitment from Amazon that would have created thousands of permanent jobs and good wages for cleaners and security guards at the proposed HQ2 campus in Long Island City and its leader, Hector Figueroa, who had organized thousands of airport workers during a years-long campaign right here in Queens. Figueroa figured he could do the same with Amazon’s headquarters in Long Island City.

The day before Amazon walked away from the project, four of its executives, including Huseman, met with organized labor leaders in Governor Cuomo’s Manhattan offices where they worked out a framework for a deal.

Stuart Appelbaum, the president of the powerful Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union, had been a fierce opponent of Amazon was present along with the regional chapter of the Teamsters and New York State’s AFL-CIO. Appelbaum later said he was “amazed” that Amazon owner Jeff Bezos cancelled the HQ2 project.

“Rather than addressing the legitimate concerns that have been raised by many New Yorkers Amazon says you do it our way or not at all, we will not even consider the concerns of New Yorkers,” RWDSU Director of Communications Chelsea Connor said. “That’s not what a responsible business would do.”

When the deal collapsed, Figueroa lamented the loss of so many union jobs, and the potential for so much more.

“The news that Amazon has decided to cancel its plans to build its second headquarters in New York City is a disappointing development for working people in our city,” Figueroa said. “This is a lost opportunity for Queens and New York on many levels. Of course, the loss of 25,000 direct jobs and many more indirect ones as well as the billions in revenue that the project was expected to bring into our city is unfortunate.For labor however, this is also a missed opportunity to engage one of the largest companies in the world and to create a pathway to union representation for one of the largest groups of predominantly non-union workers in our country.”

Gary LaBarbera, the president of the Building and Construction Trades Council of Greater New York, said he was stunned by the “unfortunate news” after the corporation had promised to use all-union construction at the HQ2 campus, providing at least 5,000 jobs building its 4 million-square-foot complex with an opportunity to expand to 8 million square feet.

LaBarbera lamented not just the union jobs however, but the loss of the 25,000 to 40,000 jobs the HQ2 campus would have provided.

“Politics and pandering have won out over a once-in-a-lifetime investment in New York City’s economy, bringing with it tens of thousands of solid middle class jobs,” LaBarbera said. “This sends the wrong message to businesses all over the world looking to call New York home. Who will want to come now? We will remember which legislators forgot about us and this opportunity.”

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/w...dmit-this.html

With 4 Short Words, Amazon Just Revealed the Brutal Truth About Its Decision to Cancel HQ2 in New York. (So Many People Don't Want to Admit This)
The Amazon statement backing out of New York runs 363 words. Here are the four most important ones.


By Bill Murphy Jr.

I've been rereading the Amazon statement calling off the deal to build half of HQ2 in New York. And I think I've found an important clue about what happens next.

It's not a plan really, not a hidden secret message. It's more of an expression of emotion. Maybe a realization of necessity.

In fact, while the text Amazon posted on its blog on February 14 runs 363 words, the most important part of this crucial passage is just four words long. But those four words speak volumes.

It starts with a dig at "state and local politicians" in New York, and a statement about how many New Yorkers supposedly supported the deal. Then, we get to the crucial part:

We are disappointed to have reached this conclusion--we love New York, its incomparable dynamism, people, and culture--and particularly the community of Long Island City, where we have gotten to know so many optimistic, forward-leaning community leaders, small business owners, and residents.

There are currently over 5,000 Amazon employees in Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Staten Island, and we plan to continue growing these teams.

Those four crucial words? "We love New York."

They're not included by accident. In fact, I'll bet this statement probably went through more writing, editing and rewriting than anything in Amazon's history.

But the passage is crucial. It's a recognition that even in a post-HQ2 world Amazon, still depends big time on New York. That's why I think the company is at pains to reassure everyone that it isn't going to try to just reopen the HQ2 search and do this elsewhere.

The brutal truth is: New York City is special.

I know people don't like to admit this. I know that there are many trying to make political points, attacking union leaders and politicians who they say are to blame for Amazon running away.

But there is no other place truly like New York City, and Amazon isn't really going to run -- not completely. It's not just chest-thumping; it comes down at least partly to sheer numbers. Here are three of them:

-By far, New York is the largest city in America, with 8.6 million people--almost as big as the second, third, and fourth largest cities combined.

-By far, it's the largest metropolitan area: more than 20 million people. If it were its own state, it would be about as big as Florida -- but much more densely packed.

-By far, it has the largest GDP of any metro area, at at $1.7 trillion. That's nearly 9 percent of the entire country.

[jsbrook]

The Bill Murphy Jr. article is a bit much...and that's putting it mildly. It's a shame what happened. And it seems to be because the opponents of this were incapable of thinking and reasoning.

The only legitimate argument AOC and people like her made is displacement and the area in LIC where they would be going getting too expensive for existing residents. But that's not a sufficient reason to reject them. It can also be mitigated. In Philly, we have a program called Longtime Owner Occupants Program (LOOP) which helps freeze taxes for homeowners in rapidly appreciating neighborhoods and helps them remain. It works. https://www.philadelphiafed.org/-/me...3lVwuWTshOrpVc https://www.philly.com/philly/news/g...MiLH5EQMRdjr3U https://whyy.org/segments/philly-fed...900ZjmPxhZtubM Of course, if some LIC residents instead wanted to sell for a nice profit and go elsewhere, who are we to stop them? That's actually part of the American Dream.