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  #7441  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 2:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Lol a contract has no implicit guarantee of the future value or any value of the property. That's insane.

In fact, a contract is itself an indicator of value. Value is the price someone is willing to pay for something. If this guy was willing to pay $10 mil at signing, it was worth $10 mil, just because he has now decided it is worth less and wants out doesn't mean he can break his contract or what is the point of having contracts?

This guy just sold Boat Holdings (i.e. Bennington Pontoon, the BMW of watercraft) for $805 million, I don't feel bad for him in the slightest.

The argument he is making is that the developer basically fraudulently got him to agree to the contract by promising Wanda would be there. The issue he will have is that Wanda was going to be there and the only reason they are not is because a authoritarian surveillance state decided to force them to sell their stake. All Magellan will have to do is demonstrate they are still working on a similar 5 star brand and his case will call apart.
It's not about whether you feel right or wrong for the individual, it's what's right vs. wrong. It is wrong to be promised one thing, something big on your decision to purchase and for the rug to be pulled out from underneath you at the last second. It's a con job for them to not meet halfway with the residents on this.
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  #7442  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
Your're absolutely right....a hotel that won't open for another 2-3 years at the earliest. Try again.
The point ------------------->

Your head.
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  #7443  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire View Post
The point ------------------->

Your head.
Exactly what point do you think went over my head? The fact of the matter remains, a hotel is still planned for this building, it's just not happening this year or possibly even next year. The fact that you couldn't produce proof when I called you out on it earlier indicates you don't have any information, so sit down.

People conveniently forget that this entire fucking building is already built, including dedicated spaces specific to a hotel, such as a lobby, reception areas, BOH, offices, retail space, restaurants/bars, kitchen(s), storage, dedicated mechanical and electrical rooms, loading docks, etc., not to mention hotel rooms. I do not know to what extent the interior of the hotel portion of the building has been built out (perhaps nothing yet), but what I do know is the lower levels of this building, the structure, all shared building utilities, etc are already designed and built to accommodate a hotel. It would be more cost prohibitive to change those hotel room floors back to condo residential or even rental because hotel rooms are tiny (250-450 sq ft, typical range) relative to new construction rental or condo sizes so to convert any of those spaces back to residential would require potentially significant changes to existing interior partitions, especially if some rated separations are also load-bearing. It's not impossible, but expensive.

Somehow, people's dislike of this building clouds their logic and reasoning skills.
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Last edited by sentinel; Sep 9, 2020 at 3:30 PM.
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  #7444  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Pretty fancy.
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  #7445  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
Your're absolutely right....a hotel that won't open for another 2-3 years at the earliest. Try again.
The interior of the hotel is currently being built out. Construction hasn't stopped.
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  #7446  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 6:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill_Ding View Post
The interior of the hotel is currently being built out. Construction hasn't stopped.
That original comment was referring to the Magellan/Sterling Bay building on Michigan Ave which has just started construction, not the Vista hotel. I'm assuming the latter is what you're referring to?
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  #7447  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 7:25 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire View Post
It's not about whether you feel right or wrong for the individual, it's what's right vs. wrong. It is wrong to be promised one thing, something big on your decision to purchase and for the rug to be pulled out from underneath you at the last second. It's a con job for them to not meet halfway with the residents on this.
It's not a con job though, there will still be a hotel in the building. No one ever signed a written guarantee it would be a Wanda. In fact, they did have a written commitment as the developer from Wanda that they would move in. Just because Wanda was forced to back out and it will now end up being someone else doesn't mean the buyer was conned.

Let's extend your logic further. Let's say the building is built, Wanda opens as planned, condo buyer closes as planned. Then two years later there is a recession and Wanda goes out of business. Does that now give the buyer the right to sue the developer and make them buy the unit back? No, that's absurd. This suit doesn't really stand a chance aside from them hoping Magellan pussies out and just decides it's not worth the effort.

Again, I don't feel bad for the buyer at all. These things happen all the time in real estate. You can't control things outside of your control like the Chinese Communist Party or global pandemics (huh, also the Chinese Communist Party). What's next? Everyone in streeterville will sue the previous owner of their unit who sold them on proximity to the lakefront path and Navy Pier because Lightfoot shut them down due to the pandemic?

No, you are advocating for contracts to be worthless, not to protect buyers.
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  #7448  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 8:05 PM
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Well wait a minute. I thought the issue isn't that outside factors sunk the Wanda hotel. It's that Magellan knew the hotel wasn't happening before the sale, but didn't disclose it to the buyer and sold the condo anyways. And actually (according to the buyer) they didn't simply not disclose it, they actively promoted the Wanda hotel even though they knew it wasn't happening. So that's the misrepresentation.

And as I typed this post out, looks like another top floor condo buyer suing Magellan.
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/resi...looks-back-out
But this guy says they upcharged him for his custom build out after initially saying they wouldn't.
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  #7449  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
That original comment was referring to the Magellan/Sterling Bay building on Michigan Ave which has just started construction, not the Vista hotel. I'm assuming the latter is what you're referring to?
Yes, since this is a discussion group about Vista I was commenting on Vista. The hotel construction is continuing on and progresses every day.
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  #7450  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
It's not a con job though, there will still be a hotel in the building. No one ever signed a written guarantee it would be a Wanda. In fact, they did have a written commitment as the developer from Wanda that they would move in. Just because Wanda was forced to back out and it will now end up being someone else doesn't mean the buyer was conned.

Let's extend your logic further. Let's say the building is built, Wanda opens as planned, condo buyer closes as planned. Then two years later there is a recession and Wanda goes out of business. Does that now give the buyer the right to sue the developer and make them buy the unit back? No, that's absurd. This suit doesn't really stand a chance aside from them hoping Magellan pussies out and just decides it's not worth the effort.

Again, I don't feel bad for the buyer at all. These things happen all the time in real estate. You can't control things outside of your control like the Chinese Communist Party or global pandemics (huh, also the Chinese Communist Party). What's next? Everyone in streeterville will sue the previous owner of their unit who sold them on proximity to the lakefront path and Navy Pier because Lightfoot shut them down due to the pandemic?

No, you are advocating for contracts to be worthless, not to protect buyers.
This all sounds great aside from the part where Magellan lied through their teeth to buyers... You're advocating to abolish buyers rights/protections in full favor of development firms who can just go "Oops, our bad" and not deal with the same kind of loss a buyer will. They promised something EXTREMELY SPECIFIC and without that exact thing being there on day one of opening, they will have failed to fulfill their end of the contract. It's pretty basic
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  #7451  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 8:05 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire View Post
This all sounds great aside from the part where Magellan lied through their teeth to buyers... You're advocating to abolish buyers rights/protections in full favor of development firms who can just go "Oops, our bad" and not deal with the same kind of loss a buyer will. They promised something EXTREMELY SPECIFIC and without that exact thing being there on day one of opening, they will have failed to fulfill their end of the contract. It's pretty basic
After buying three different new construction properties from three different builders in Chicago I can say with confidence that anything not written into a contract is meaningless.

If the buyer cared so much at the time about some hotel - or that other person with their custom penthouse build out - they should have written that specifically into the contract as grounds for return of earnest monies.
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  #7452  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 8:57 PM
lakeshoredrive lakeshoredrive is online now
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Is it just me or does it feel like this building has been a nightmare for Magellan? I am surprised the full NW corner has not been clad yet.
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  #7453  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 9:34 PM
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[MODERATOR INTERJECTION] There will be a hotel in this building at some point in time full stop. . . let's move the conversation beyond this please. . . thanks for your understanding. . .

. . .
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  #7454  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lakeshoredrive View Post
Is it just me or does it feel like this building has been a nightmare for Magellan? I am surprised the full NW corner has not been clad yet.
It's just you. . .

. . .
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  #7455  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 9:37 PM
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
If the buyer cared so much at the time about some hotel - or that other person with their custom penthouse build out - they should have written that specifically into the contract as grounds for return of earnest monies.
EXACTLY!!! Nothing more to discuss about it. . .

. . .
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  #7456  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 10:57 PM
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Harry, or anyone who makes this walk. I'm just wondering what the progress of the underpass from wacker to the LSE park is coming along. Any updated pics? I hope this is a good looker(roof with lighting) for a walk through.
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  #7457  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire View Post
This all sounds great aside from the part where Magellan lied through their teeth to buyers... You're advocating to abolish buyers rights/protections in full favor of development firms who can just go "Oops, our bad" and not deal with the same kind of loss a buyer will. They promised something EXTREMELY SPECIFIC and without that exact thing being there on day one of opening, they will have failed to fulfill their end of the contract. It's pretty basic
The only way Magellan "lied through their teeth" is if they specifically told the buyer that Wanda would operate a hotel after they knew Wanda was not doing it. If they told the buyer before China forced Wanda to sell off their assets and back out of operating here, and the buyer signed, then good luck to the buyer to put it lightly. I do not side with the buyer on this based on what I read
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  #7458  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2020, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by KWillChicago View Post
Harry, or anyone who makes this walk. I'm just wondering what the progress of the underpass from wacker to the LSE park is coming along. Any updated pics? I hope this is a good looker(roof with lighting) for a walk through.
Last week it was still a giant lattice of struts, not skinned yet - but the walkway above does have a glass railing.
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  #7459  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2020, 2:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago View Post
It's just you. . .

. . .
Actually, no, it's not just him. Although I wouldn't say it is as big of a deal as others have stated. There was the whole glass backup, which was a huge deal and definitely was a big headache for them (I forget exactly how long it took but I believe it was more than 6 months). Secondly, Wanda backed out of the project, leaving them to find a new hotel to fill the space. They had a fire towards the bottom of the tower (this wasn't too much of a problem though). Furthermore they've had pretty slow sales (hovering around 30-40% for what seems like forever, even before Covid). So, I would say that the evidence points to this building definitely being a serious headache for Magellan but I do believe they will eventually overcome all of these. Now to the question of Vista's profitability, anyone can guess. I would say it's definitely not just lakeshoredrive though.
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  #7460  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2020, 2:18 AM
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Originally Posted by lakeshoredrive View Post
Is it just me or does it feel like this building has been a nightmare for Magellan? I am surprised the full NW corner has not been clad yet.
The tower is probably a little behind schedule due to the curtain wall, but their original estimate for initial delivery was Spring 2020, looks like that's slipped til fall.

Magellan is going to do the same thing they did with Aqua, ride out this economy and then make even more money. Wanda backed out, but given the surge of Fed driven inflation, they will probably get a better deal in a year or two. There's a reason they just bought Wanda out, they probably got Wanda to agree to desperation terms given the amount of time Wanda was shopping their stake around with no action from other buyers. Suddenly Wanda was staring down a US hotel market frozen by Coronavirus, Mageallan undoubtably had a clause in their contract that would eventually force out Wanda if they failed to meet their obligations. Rather than play legal games with a savvy developer, they chose to take what Magallean was offering and run.

Same goes for this inane lawsuit, they likely have lawyers on staff at Magellan who have nothing better to do but drag out lawsuits like this for years. Eventually the market will improve and Magellan with probably find another buyer to pay the same price and then settle with this goon for half of his money back or something. Magellan will have no additional expense since they just pay the attorneys a salary anyhow and then will pocket like $700k and get their profit anyhow. You also have to realize that whoever has the money is usually the one in the dominant position in litigation. It is MUCH harder to claw back money than it is to hold onto it. Patience is power in Real Estate and I'm inclined to believe the party that has systematically developed one of the largest urban developments in US history encompassing billions of dollars over decades is going to outlast this buyer and the coronavirus just like they outlasted the Great Recession which was farrrr worse than the current turmoil.
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