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  #2921  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2009, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten View Post
Also, this makes me realize how underutilized Wolf Point really is. A parking lot on that location!?!?! That has almost Trumpt Tower like potential, at least in terms of views. I mean a sweet south AND east river view, I bet those cars in the lot are loving the view!
My eyes went exactly to that spot as well. Its kinda one of those that doesnt look right type deals. That location looks prime.

Awesome shots btw George, thanks for sharing.
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  #2922  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2009, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten View Post
Also, this makes me realize how underutilized Wolf Point really is. A parking lot on that location!?!?! That has almost Trumpt Tower like potential, at least in terms of views. I mean a sweet south AND east river view, I bet those cars in the lot are loving the view!
Not that this is a Wolf Point thread, but I personally feel that you need to go bigger and bolder than a Trump Tower size building on that site. Design wise at least, it need to be kick ass.
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  #2923  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2009, 9:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BVictor1 View Post
Not that this is a Wolf Point thread, but I personally feel that you need to go bigger and bolder than a Trump Tower size building on that site. Design wise at least, it need to be kick ass.
You're absolutely correct!
     
     
  #2924  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2009, 4:02 PM
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Not to go too far off topic, but Wolf Point is going to be an epic location for a supertall. 444 West Lake isnt too shabby either. Those views down the east and south river canyons will be unparalled. Nice shot George, is there a rooftop deck on the west tower of Marina City?

Im not giving up hope on Waterview... it is... "too big to fail"
     
     
  #2925  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2009, 5:19 PM
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^Thanks, Northwest. I love this view, I wish I had taken the shot. I found this pic on Flickr, photo credit goes to ifmuth.^
     
     
  #2926  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2009, 2:46 AM
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What a shame. It looks like Ryugyong Hotel 2.0.
     
     
  #2927  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2009, 2:42 AM
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  #2928  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2009, 2:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Elian Mindprobe View Post
What a shame. It looks like Ryugyong Hotel 2.0.
I'm not worried, even if it takes a few years this project will be completed.
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  #2929  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2009, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BVictor1 View Post
Not that this is a Wolf Point thread, but I personally feel that you need to go bigger and bolder than a Trump Tower size building on that site. Design wise at least, it need to be kick ass.
It seems a little far from the center of downtown for a supertall. It seems like only a couple blocks away you get to be outside of the zone of high-rises. I would say that, for now, somebody definitely ought to get rid of the parking lot and build something temporary that is more urban - an outdoor market, a park or something nice to look at and spend time in.

Even a permanent park and museum would be OK, but failing that, a medium-sized skyscraper with a really nice design would work nicely, I think. It's not that I'm against development, but I recognize that cities grow at realistic paces and whatever you build here takes away demand for development in the core of Downtown where major projects fit in better.
     
     
  #2930  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2009, 3:03 PM
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^^^ I believe the issue with Wolf Point is that it has very poor transportation circulation. Its only accessible by one one-way street. I don't think anything other than a large high rise will be economically feasible because of the costs of reconfiguring the site so that its more easily accessible. I'm not quite sure how they plan to do this, but you really can't sustain a medium or small high rise when its completely isolated off on its own surrounded by water on three sides and by a huge ugly building on another with only access by a single 1-way street. Whatever is built there will only be attractive to tenants if it is a destination in its own right, a place where people are going to go out of their way to visit. Also, having a carroll street transit way would certainly greatly improve the circulation to the site adding a major mass transit connection to a difficult to access site.

I've heard that the potential solution to this circulation pattern is to connect Kingsbury around the west-side of the Apparel Mart to hook up with Mart Plaza or whatever that streets called. I don't know how this could be done without interfering with the Carroll Transitway, perhaps they would ramp Kingsbury up one level so its elevated like Mart Plaza, or without having to fill in the river a bit. I have a feeling that Wolf Point may be in for a huge reconstruction project in conjunction with the tower plans and the transitway plans that would reconfigure the whole point in one shot during the next boom.

However I would prefer that they would just partially follow the Burnham Plan and create another bridge west across the river from Wolf Point though the railways on the other side would make that exceedingly difficult.
     
     
  #2931  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2009, 9:51 PM
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It seems a little far from the center of downtown for a supertall.
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Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
^^^ I believe the issue with Wolf Point is that it has very poor transportation circulation.
The same is true for the Chicago Spire site.
The attraction here is not simply convenience, but the absolutely stunning views, and one-of-a-kind location. Its obvious that a large portion of this site will be residential. I'd like to see a massive, yet beautified "podium" with attractive retail, office, hotel, and parking occupy the first ~20 floors (with the ugly middle finger facing the Apparel Mart). A stunning, architechturally superb supertall should rise out of that, compliment its unique location, and leaving the tip of the point as a public park/plaza.

Those people who are too lazy to walk the extra block can buy a condo at Waterview.
     
     
  #2932  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2009, 5:32 AM
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^^^ No, it is not the same for many reasons. For one thing what is proposed at Wolf Point would be at least partially office which generates much higher peak traffic. And its not an issue of walking (though Wolf Point is very inconvenient to walk to right now), its an issue of how to get thousands of cars a day in and out of the site without causing a massive traffic jam.

Secondly, how could even consider for one second that the Spire site is less accessible? I mean it has an eight lane freeway double decked with a four lane major arterial street running right through it. How is that unaccessible. That's like saying Walmarts built next to freeways have the problem of being unaccessible. In addition to the major arterial and freeway there is also fully functioning two-way street that dead ends in the site which is much more useful than only having a single one way street that is only tangent to the site.

Also, its not "obvious" that a large part of this site will be residential. The office district is moving north as the loop runs out of buildable sites as evidenced by the construction of 353 N. Clark and 300 N. LaSalle. River views are just as profitable if not more for office buildings as they are for residential buildings. The latest proposal was about 50% office, 25% hotel, and 25% residential. So 75% of the use of the site would be major traffic generating activities that require a lot of accessibility.

Whatever is built at Wolf Point will probably have below grade parking because its such a large site and "grade" is at least one or two stories above the actual ground level due to decked streets like at Aqua. Also, the views will be so great that no developer in their right mind would waste them with a large Trump-like podium. The reason you see podiums at Trump and Waterview is that the sites are so constrained and small that building a full below-grade garage would be hugely expensive. Wolf Point, by comparison, is huge and will already have to be completely built up by two stories to be level with the streets anyhow, so below grade parking there would only make sense.
     
     
  #2933  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 1:15 AM
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Last edited by Loopy; May 16, 2010 at 9:30 PM.
     
     
  #2934  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 1:32 AM
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Heard some buzz today. 111 West Wacker. Mixed-Use, Office/Hotel. 55 floors.
Well that's a shame.
     
     
  #2935  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 1:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
^^^ I believe the issue with Wolf Point is that it has very poor transportation circulation. Its only accessible by one one-way street. I don't think anything other than a large high rise will be economically feasible because of the costs of reconfiguring the site so that its more easily accessible. I'm not quite sure how they plan to do this, ...
This is why I asked about extending Merchandise Mart Plaza west over the river to Desplaines a couple weeks ago. Expensive? Yes. Useful? Possibly. Not nearly as expensive as a tunnel from the east end of Fulton curved under Wolf Point connecting to Kingsbury, though.

Of course, if they just made Wells and Orleans 2-way north of the MM Plaza and actually built the Carol Street Transitway, connecting it with the West Loop, Streeterville and the Michigan Ave corridor, the might not need anything else.
     
     
  #2936  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 2:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
Heard some buzz today. 111 West Wacker. Mixed-Use, Office/Hotel. 55 floors.
Care to indulge us with your source? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just curious who is thinking anything about this site while $80mm in liens sit on it.
     
     
  #2937  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 3:16 AM
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Last edited by Loopy; May 16, 2010 at 9:30 PM.
     
     
  #2938  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 3:25 AM
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^^^ I could care less about the height if the design is sick. Hopefully they'll do something awesome with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias View Post
Not nearly as expensive as a tunnel from the east end of Fulton curved under Wolf Point connecting to Kingsbury, though.
Oh no, it wouldn't be a tunnel, Kingsbury actually shifts to the west and continues as a stub for half a block between the Apparel Mart and the river, check it out on google maps. I hear they were considering just extending it around the SW corner of Apparel Mart to allow a western entrance to the site.
     
     
  #2939  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 4:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
Heard some buzz today. 111 West Wacker. Mixed-Use, Office/Hotel. 55 floors.
Perhaps 55 floors on top of whats already there possibly?...I mean there is already 25 plus floors done already?
     
     
  #2940  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 3:43 PM
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^^^ I could care less about the height if the design is sick. Hopefully they'll do something awesome with it.
yep. at this point design is all that matters with this project. i'm sick and tired of staring at that poor old concrete hulk across the river from my balcony.
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