Condos

simster3 · #1 Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 3:56 PM**

I am the treasurer on my rental property's condo board and we are planning for our upcoming budget. Currently, we are at about $0.50/sqft. We have some major projects coming up and will likely need more reserves to fund it all. The board is currently debating a raise in fees and/or special assessments. I am leaning more towards special assessments. Does anyone know what the average per sqft price that is typical for Calgary? I have found that Toronto is at $0.68. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Jimby · #2 Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 4:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by simster3

I am the treasurer on my rental property's condo board and we are planning for our upcoming budget. Currently, we are at about $0.50/sqft. We have some major projects coming up and will likely need more reserves to fund it all. The board is currently debating a raise in fees and/or special assessments. I am leaning more towards special assessments. Does anyone know what the average per sqft price that is typical for Calgary? I have found that Toronto is at $0.68. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Has your board done a Reserve Fund Study? They are required to be implemented and followed, as well as updated every 5 years. Once that is in place you will know whether you need to assess the owners.

simster3 · #3 Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 6:08 PM**

Yeah, we are just finalizing the draft of the newest one. We are debating the virtues of the 2 funding methods suggested in the study and I am trying to come up with alternative models that might mix the 2 options. Many of the other directors are worried that a special assessment will look bad for potential sellers but I personally believe that higher long-term fees would be more of a deterrent to buyers.

MichaelS · #4 Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 7:02 PM**

My building's sitting just below the $0.50/sq. ft mark as well. Construction was completed in 2007, so not too old but not brand new anymore either.

I can understand the hesitation to have a special assessment on the record, but as long as good reasoning is given as to why it was issued, I think that would help any buyers overcome their anxiety about it.

simster3 · #5 Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 7:19 PM**

Thanks. Our building is 32 years old so I think we and previous boards have done a good job with regards to keeping the fees low. But we are at the point of needing some major/expensive exterior work and will need a good cash injection.

Rusty van Reddick · #6 Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 7:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by simster3

I am the treasurer on my rental property's condo board and we are planning for our upcoming budget. Currently, we are at about $0.50/sqft. We have some major projects coming up and will likely need more reserves to fund it all. The board is currently debating a raise in fees and/or special assessments. I am leaning more towards special assessments. Does anyone know what the average per sqft price that is typical for Calgary? I have found that Toronto is at $0.68. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

When I was condo board president (2001-2004) I learned that the average in Calgary is 30 cents per square foot. 50 sounds insane- We were paying around $400/mo for a 1220sf condo. 68 for Toronto?? Is that to pay for a security desk or concierge or a fitness center? I can't imagine that.

If your building doesn't have elevators thank God- that's $100k more for the reserve fund.

simster3 · #7 Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 7:42 PM**

We do have an elevator and that is one of the big ticket items that is part of the 5 year reserve fund study.

freeweed · #8 Posted **Sep 24, 2013, 3:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by simster3

Thanks. Our building is 32 years old so I think we and previous boards have done a good job with regards to keeping the fees low. But we are at the point of needing some major/expensive exterior work and will need a good cash injection.

This reminds me of how the typical voter thinks of (and reacts to) property taxes, for some reason.

MarkL · #9 Posted **Sep 24, 2013, 7:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

When I was condo board president (2001-2004) I learned that the average in Calgary is 30 cents per square foot. 50 sounds insane- We were paying around $400/mo for a 1220sf condo. 68 for Toronto?? Is that to pay for a security desk or concierge or a fitness center? I can't imagine that.

If your building doesn't have elevators thank God- that's $100k more for the reserve fund.

I was my condo's Treasurer around this time as well. Condo fees seem to have gone up, in general, around 100% since then. It always shocks me when I look at condo fees these days. Mine were $350 on a 1300 square foot condo in an early 80s building.

As for Special Assessments vs. Condo fees:

You need the money either way, so it's just a question of how you get it. Special Assessments are bad for anyone who is planning on selling and moving out in the near term. But, fuck those guys since they're bailing out anyways. Special Assessments are also bad if they are relied on regularly as a funding mechanism. It screams bad management, and an inability to manage money. Transparency is key. Make sure everyone is clear on why there is a need for the money, how it's going to be spent, and that extra diligence was done to ensure that the money is stretched as far as it can go. So many boards run like this: "Oh we need to fix the roof, because it's leaking into my unit. I got a quote from a friend of mine. We need a special assessment." Rest of board "Oh ok. Maybe we should get another quote. But that's a lot of work. Also half the board is golfing. Maybe we should ask them. Nah. I trust you."

Condo Fees are one of the top considerations for new purchasers, since, like taxes, they very rarely go down. Raising condo fees in perpetuity will make all the units in the building that much harder to sell.

tl

r Do a Special Assessment unless you've already done a bunch of them, then set condo fees to meet your new Reserve Fund study goals, for whatever's left over. Take the time to get numerous quotes for large projects. 3 is the standard but sometimes is not enough (like with your roof, which seems to depend on how high the estimator is that day).

You can also do payment plan Special Assessments and/or a temporary increase in Condo Fees with a specific end date (though most people don't trust this) or a mix of Special Assessment and condo fee increase.

simster3 · #10 Posted **Sep 24, 2013, 8:44 PM**

Thanks for the info Mark. A lot of the upcoming expenses are exterior and aesthetic in nature and I am of the mind that we should hire a designer/architect to create a cohesive plan that we can bring to the remaining owners as a "this is what your money is buying" kinda statement. This is something I have been trying to spearhead for the last couple of years because I have known that these improvements were on the books. What do you think of that plan?

MarkL · #11 Posted **Sep 25, 2013, 8:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by simster3

Thanks for the info Mark. A lot of the upcoming expenses are exterior and aesthetic in nature and I am of the mind that we should hire a designer/architect to create a cohesive plan that we can bring to the remaining owners as a "this is what your money is buying" kinda statement. This is something I have been trying to spearhead for the last couple of years because I have known that these improvements were on the books. What do you think of that plan?

Hiring a designer/architect sounds like an expensive addition in a cash-sensitive situation, but I don't know the details, scale etc. Generally speaking, anything that makes people see that they're getting value for their money is a good thing. If it's a relatively simple exterior/aesthetic thing, you might be able to get some mockups done during the tendering process without hiring a designer. At the very least a competent bid should include some previous similar projects, which would help your other condoees to visualize the benefits.

If you live in one of the peach (now faded to farmed salmon colour) stucco monstrosities and the whole building exterior needs to be done in any other colour than peach, and/or it's a more extensive modification then it might make sense to hire a designer/architect. I don't know the details (please tell me it's one of those peach stucco things).

simster3 · #12 Posted **Sep 25, 2013, 3:36 PM**

Our building isn't stucco but it is peach coloured aluminium siding and red brick. Balconies are on the list for next year and if we rip up balconies, which are also covered in the siding, we might as well do the whole thing. I am really looking forward to getting rid of the siding and would like to get out of the brick but a lot of people have told me that is a bad idea. The building is four storeys and has 38 units. So exterior work is going to be a relatively large job.

kw5150 · #13 Posted **Sep 25, 2013, 6:02 PM**

I wouldnt do any exterior renovations at all unless they are required without question (mostly because the elevator is coming up). The total cost for our building's elevators is $159,000.00 and it is being installed as I type! Our building will not have a working elevator for about two months, so everyone is in great physical shape now.

. We met with each elevator consultant and took a took a tour of a couple buildings that our new brand of elevator was installed in.

If you are absolutely have to do the exterior.....hire an architect or someone skilled at coordinating the important stuff. We had a cluserfuck of a contractor that was incompetent and added a bunch of extra to the budget.....and did kind of a sloppy job. Also, make sure to get multiple quotes AND meet with each contractor. The extra time and work is required to get the best budget and cost. Also, the windows and doors may be considered at the same time. If you have patio doors, switch them out for a normal swing door and some windows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by simster3

Our building isn't stucco but it is peach coloured aluminium siding and red brick. Balconies are on the list for next year and if we rip up balconies, which are also covered in the siding, we might as well do the whole thing. I am really looking forward to getting rid of the siding and would like to get out of the brick but a lot of people have told me that is a bad idea. The building is four storeys and has 38 units. So exterior work is going to be a relatively large job.

simster3 · #14 Posted **Sep 25, 2013, 7:07 PM**

Thanks KW. The elevator is scheduled for 2016 but the balconies are on the study for the next 3, not sure why they do it in 3 phases but that is what it is saying. I don't know if they are there for a structural reason or just because it is a "life-cycle" thing. How long did it take to tender your elevator, from decision to start of replacement? I thought if we are replacing balconies it would be better value to roll the exterior into one, even if it requires a larger one-time payment.

MarkL · #15 Posted **Sep 25, 2013, 8:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kw5150

We met with each elevator consultant and took a took a tour of a couple buildings that our new brand of elevator was installed in.
.

See, this is the kind of diligence more boards should aspire to. It saves everyone money in the long run, makes units more marketable and worth more, and makes day to day life more pleasant. Too bad it is so rare. Also too bad that elevator firms have such little competition.

That does indeed sound like the kind of project that would require an architect or engineering firm to evaluate, as it sounds like partially structural work, and modifying the building envelope. If you do decide to get all the work done, it will probably be cheaper to get it all done at once, and with a better overall result.

simster3 · #16 Posted **Sep 25, 2013, 9:43 PM**

I checked the reserve study and it is just resurfacing of the balconies they are recommending. So I do not know if we need to change a lot of it. Also, we do have the ugly peach stucco too. I really want to update our building.

kw5150 · #17 Posted **Sep 26, 2013, 5:13 PM**

We were picking away at the elevator thing for years, but the main decisions took about 3 months. We got quotes from Kone, Thyssen Krupp, Fujitec, and another one.......damn, I forget the other, but they are another main player in the industry. Each Contract had to be read over VERY well because each company left certain things out or were vague about certain things...........There are usually a couple items that are not included in the quote and need to sorted out as well. Allow another 25,000 to 40,000 for these items:

Electrical Connections
Interior cab renovations
Code compliance

We opted to not replace the interior of our elevator cab for an additional 20,000. Ours is from 1979 and is back in style (stainless steel and faux wood panelling, lol) It looks like EQ3. The only thing we are updating is the lights in the ceiling and whatever comes with the elevator (new buttons and panel etc.....)

If you can live with the old exterior, do it! Get it inspected by two companies and get 3 quotes. Start looking now. Old exteriors are cool and retro, people only care about the interior of the suite they are buying, the reserve fund, and the state of the boilers, elevator, roof, parkade waterfroofing, and the actual functional state of the building shell.

At least, these are the things I care about. We also spent some money and new sod and plants and raised the pavers for the front walk which seemed to go a long way for people liking the building. (shameless landscape plug).

Quote:

Originally Posted by simster3

Thanks KW. The elevator is scheduled for 2016 but the balconies are on the study for the next 3, not sure why they do it in 3 phases but that is what it is saying. I don't know if they are there for a structural reason or just because it is a "life-cycle" thing. How long did it take to tender your elevator, from decision to start of replacement? I thought if we are replacing balconies it would be better value to roll the exterior into one, even if it requires a larger one-time payment.

Jimby · #18 Posted **Sep 26, 2013, 6:44 PM**

Otis? Dover?
We're looking at replacing our Otis elevator which is about 56 years old.
Unless I'm hauling groceries and stuff, I take the stairs - they are faster and safer!

kw5150 · #19 Posted **Sep 26, 2013, 8:21 PM**

Probably Otis.......but they make 2 kinds....the abomination hydraulic kind that are slower than stairs and the cable style ones for taller buildings (over 4 floors?) 56 years old? Really???? That is amazing! Is it cable or hydraulic?

It must have had an overhaul at some point.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimby

Otis? Dover?
We're looking at replacing our Otis elevator which is about 56 years old.
Unless I'm hauling groceries and stuff, I take the stairs - they are faster and safer!

mersar · #20 Posted **Sep 26, 2013, 8:51 PM**

One of my old buildings (Park Place) had original OTIS ones from the 60's when I lived there a few years ago, though they were just preparing to do a replacement not long after I moved.