Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[jeremy.r]

Contractor's website is up:

http://www.swcrrproject.com/

[mersar]

Originally Posted by Acey

Completely unrelated to the SW, but I noticed today that on Stoney SE all 1A shields have been covered up in reference to 17 Ave SE. It wasn't done haphazardly, but permanently with properly cut green film. I'm guessing AB Trans no longer intends for 17 Ave within Calgary to be designated as 1A.

Correct, that change was actually completed formally last year IIRC. Essentially when the latest annexation of the land between Calgary and Chestermere was completed it triggered the change, as now the roadway from one "urban" municipality into another since there is no longer any county space in between and that somehow means the road no longer meets the definition of a provincial primary highway.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

KGL's boards from the open house last week:

The download should be available mid week

Interestingly, mistakenly says 146th Ave from Fish Creek Blvd access closes in 2017. That's not true, it stays open uninterrupted until the interchange construction provides access to 37th Street (part of Tsuut'ina agreement).

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Acey

It'll be interesting to see how this all progresses given the one year split between completion dates of various stuff. I feel like Macleod/22X is going to be the very last thing to get finished. A ton of bridges and detours to be constructed. Sarcee/Glenmore is more complex but 90% is out in the middle of a field.

Are there any bonuses for getting this project done early?

Macleod/22X needed to be done years ago not last so hopefully that's not the case.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

KGL's boards from the open house last week:

The download should be available mid week

Has anything been said about holding more of these open houses? I really wanted to go to this but the dates/times did not work for me. I wish they would do some on the weekends, especially Sunday afternoons.

[Ferreth]

I'm good with there being no incentives to finish early. Get it done right rather than try to cut corners to hurry up.

[Bri-Guy]

I was able to go the the Nov 30 session, although I was a bit late and didn't get to enjoy as much discussion as I would have liked.

This change and restricted access will put a lot of pressure on the 162 Ave access into Shawnessy shopping area as the only access from the North, East or South into the area. I did ask why there wasn't an option to have the traffic from SB Macleod Tr to WB Stoney remain separated from entering Stoney traffic but continue up to the intersection at the north end of the 6th Street bridge over Stoney. Similar to Deerfoot SB to WB Stoney currently. This would allow better access to the Ctrain station, as well as Silverado, without forcing that traffic to meander through Shawnessy shopping area via the 162nd Ave exit from Macleod.

When I posed this to the Ring Road person, they advised that the City was considering that as part of future plans down the road and that I should ask the City representative for more detail. Unfortunately I wasn't quick witted enough to realize that this being a provincial road, it really should be the Province's responsibility to address this, particularly if it is a potentially "known" issue/solution before construction. When I wen to speak to the City rep, they 'heard my idea/concern" and advised that I should be asking the Province about that. Unfortunately by then, the whole display was being taken down, and there wasn't anyone left to discuss this with.

Does anyone else thing this would be a good idea? I'm guessing it is too late to address this now, which is a bit frustrating, and I am confused by the bit that the Ring Road guy was mentioning to me that there may be a solution to access 6th St SW from the Macleod/Stoney interchange - he seemed to indicate as if coming NB on Macleod to WB on Stoney, but I find that to be highly unlikely.

[Pegasus]

My understanding is that there will still be access into the Shawnessy shopping area from SB Macleod trail off ramp south of Home Depot, but that this exit onto the Macleod Trail ramp from the shopping centre will be closed with the ring road construction.
This (southern) entrance into the shopping centre is important as you will not be able to cut across to the Co-op from SB Macleod if you exit at the (new) 162 Ave bridge.

[Fuzz]

One of my biggest pondering's about this is their attempted re-alignment/containment of Elbow River. The river naturally meanders. Are they making a channel in the blue section? Upstream, do they expect it to always enter the channel at the same spot? What happens when a flood fills it with debris and alters the path? Downstream the water will be coming out in a straight line with more velocity. Will it carve a new path straight through?

Sorry, not much to do with the road, just something that interests me. I'm sure they have thought this through....

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

Those are all good questions, and I know they remain a concern of the Weaselhead Preservation Society. Given that the river does meander across the entire valley, there is concern about trying to force the river into one channel for all time. The last time the river changed course in the Weaselhead area (which is not that large of an area) was in 2007, so this is an active and dynamic river. The City was concerned about not trying to contain the river, and instead designing a road that would allow for the natural dynamics of the Elbow, but apart from widening the bridge openings, the Province has not, to my knowledge, made any other concessions in that respect.

The 'firehose effect' of constraining the river through an armoured and fixed opening is also something that has come up quite often. I wish I had more information about all of this.

This does seem like a complete afterthought. Like, "Uh, let's just deviate this river a bit over here. Back to interchange designs."

Improper research and resulting design could cause havoc in the area. I'm surprised that in this day and age, a lack of consideration for an important ecosystem is tolerated.

[Fuzz]

Interesting, did it not change course during the 2013 floods?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

I'm surprised that in this day and age, a lack of consideration for an important ecosystem is tolerated.

The river is a natural feature, but the Weaselhead isn't.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

As I understand it, the inclusion of the Ring Road/Tsuut'ina Parkway interchange at the north edge of the valley meant that the province wanted to push the river further south. That interchange has southbound merging lanes that would have extended to where the river is currently located, and the Province wanted to avoid any merging or weaving movements over bridges/water due to icing concerns. Using fills rather than a causeway or bridge is a safer option, as well as more cost effective, as I understand it.

As well, the corridor location was extremely limited due to the Nation's desire not to impact any more of the reserve as possible to the west, and the City/residents desire not to have the road in the park to the east. The Province was unable to locate the road in what might have been a better location based on the geography of the area, so rather than moving the road to suit the river, they had to move the river to suit the road.

Well that makes a bit more sense. I guess it's easier to force the river to change than the people adjacent to the road

[Fuzz]

Thanks for the info, always very informative!

[jeremy.r]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

Maps are online now:

http://www.swcrrproject.com/media-ce...lignment-maps/

A few things I've noticed in the KGL plans that have changed from the province's plans (in addition to the changes in the Glenmore/Sarcee area mentioned earlier):

-The ring road (RR) now has multiple smaller bridges over Anderson (instead of Anderson bridging over RR)
-130th Ave interchange uses roundabouts instead of traffic lights
-The area between 162nd Ave and Spruce Meadows (RR/22X interchange) has had a few changes:

• SB from 162nd now joins with mainline RR immediately (previously it stayed separate from the RR and joined 22X)
• SB RR to Spruce Meadows now stays with the mainline until after the merge with 22X and then exits to the loop ramp (previously, this weave did not exist since SB RR traffic destined for Spruce meadows would join the SB 162nd traffic before the curve)
• SB RR to WB 22X stays with the mainline for longer and then goes under the N/S bridge for EB-22X/NB-RR

The changes to the RR/22X interchange seem to add a bit more weaving (at least for SB RR to Spruce Meadows), but definitely seems more intuitive. I suspect it would have been easy to miss the Spruce Meadows exit since it was so far before the actual interchange.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Thanks for the info, always very informative!

Yes - thanks again for the background 5secs.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by Acey

If you're not tired of hearing me whine about the naming issue: I did get an email from Alberta Transportation. The situation is "somewhat fluid" and my (our) suggestion that it be simplified such that the entire portion from Glenmore to 22X is called TTN Trail is under consideration. That would shift the name changes to points where the road turns 90 degrees, which is more logical.

That would be a decent compromise, since we can't go back in time and just name the whole damn thing "Calgary Ring Road".

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I still think that entire corridor, from the Trans-Canada Highway to Highway 22x should be renamed Tsuut'ina Trail. That way we don't have two disconnected Sarcee Trails, it goes part-way towards eliminating the 'Sarcee' name from our roads, and it makes a different name make sense, as that is Tsuut'ina Trail, and Stoney Trail just happens to intersect it.

I wish we would just use numbers like most places. Call the whole thing 201 and be done with it. Same should apply to Deerfoot, Glenmore, etc.

[craner]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I still think that entire corridor, from the Trans-Canada Highway to Highway 22x should be renamed Tsuut'ina Trail. That way we don't have two disconnected Sarcee Trails, it goes part-way towards eliminating the 'Sarcee' name from our roads, and it makes a different name make sense, as that is Tsuut'ina Trail, and Stoney Trail just happens to intersect it.

This just makes too much sense for all the reasons you mentioned.
I wonder if this is one of the options on the province's "somewhat fluid" radar.
This would be my top choice.

[outoftheice]

To add to the whole name confusion, a trip down to Spruce Meadows yesterday reminded me that Stoney Trail/22x west of Macleod Trail officially carries the name "Spruce Meadows Trail" which makes for 3 different names along the ring road. Be very interested to see what they come up with to minimize the confusion.