SAN ANTONIO | Urban Core Development Thread

[Bigfoot Yancey]

A downtown baseball stadium, even with Triple-A would be a great thing for downtown. It is a bit different than football or basketball. More nights of use per year than football and an outdoor, more casual vibe than basketball games. Baseball crowds tend to mill around before and after games at bars/restaurants. I can think of numerous AAA ballparks in smaller cities than SA that have been successful in spurring redevelopment. Check out Durham, NC, Sacramento, Oklahoma City, Nashville, El Paso.

I would love a Fox Tech site but I'd also love to see a Lone Star Brewery site with redevelopment in the manner of American Tobacco Historic District in Durham.

[sakyle04]

Originally Posted by jeffreininger

I, for one, am a supporter of a DT baseball stadium. Building Wolff Stadium in it's current location and AT&T Center in it's was in no way an economic generator...that goes without saying. But there's no comparison between those and at DT baseball stadium. Can you imagine being a tourist in town for a few days and staying downtown? Who wouldn't want to spend a couple hours taking in a game within walking distance of your hotel? This seems like a no-brainer to me and great timing with the current desire to be downtown for locals as well. I see some great attendance numbers in our future if this stadium ever happens. Also, there's plenty of room near the old Fox Tech campus...just saying.

Jeff makes some fair points. Capture a few tourist dollars, increase the ability for locals to make an evening of a game, etc.

I don't think anyone can argue with this kind of thinking. Compared to Wolff Stadium, a DT baseball stadium would be fantastic. The location would be, as he says, a no-brainer.

The rub is in who pays for it. The results of all of the studies done on the topic basically say that stadiums don't generate increased economic activity - they simply shift money from one place to another. To make the point clearer, when a smaller town gets a movie theater, it doesn't create new money for locals to spend on movies, it just means they go to the movies instead of Sonic or the bowling alley.

If this is such a great deal for the owners of a pro sports franchise, they'll find a way to pay for it.

Heck, for all of the grief I've given Hartman and the Scorpions for their stupid stadium location, the facility is the crown jewel of minor league soccer in America and they built it with private dollars - and are profitable!!

Put a stadium downtown - very cool. Just don't tax the people and pretend it's going to generate dollars.

[The Model]

Perfect location, and the outfield would have a view of the skyline. Location in the empty parking lots north of the new Frost Bank tower site. The stadium would be bordered to the north by Martin Street, the West by Cameron Street, to the South by Travis Street, and to the East by Flores Street. San Fernando Gym would remain in the corner. I took measurements from google earth on the baseball stadium in OKC and Charlotte. This site that I'm looking at would clearly be enough room. Some of Pecan street would have to be removed. Front of the stadium would be at the corner of Martin and Cameron.

[STLtoSA]

Originally Posted by The Model

Perfect location, and the outfield would have a view of the skyline. Location in the empty parking lots north of the new Frost Bank tower site. The stadium would be bordered to the north by Martin Street, the West by Cameron Street, to the South by Travis Street, and to the East by Flores Street. San Fernando Gym would remain in the corner. I took measurements from google earth on the baseball stadium in OKC and Charlotte. This site that I'm looking at would clearly be enough room. Some of Pecan street would have to be removed. Front of the stadium would be at the corner of Martin and Cameron.

Those parking lots go to Weston Urban as part of the deal with Frost. I though that the plan was to develop them as residential along the creek.

The overall site would be just big enough for a stadium (about the size of Autozone Park - one of the tightest urban AAA ballparks).

The former Fox Tech site would only work if there were some MAJOR street alignment changes.

A good location (not the best, and probably not feasible) would be the institute of Texan Cultures.

If a ballpark gets built, there will have to be some buildings torn down. Where and which is the question.

[The Model]

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by STLtoSA

The former Fox Tech site would only work if there were some MAJOR street alignment changes.

It should fit on the football field with maybe the realignment of Quincy to hug the freeway.

A good location (not the best, and probably not feasible) would be the institute of Texan Cultures.

To have a view of downtown beyond the outfield, the stadium would have to face west, into the setting sun. Also a problem for the players.

EDIT: maybe not. I guess it could face north.

[KevinFromTexas]

Nice update, Raul. I was wondering about that one.

[STLtoSA]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

It should fit on the football field with maybe the realignment of Quincy to hug the freeway.



To have a view of downtown beyond the outfield, the stadium would have to face west, into the setting sun. Also a problem for the players.

EDIT: maybe not. I guess it could face north.

I don't know about the Fox Tech site. It is very small and would need some major road realignments.



Another site with similar issues, including parking issues is the old SAPD HQ site.



I have a new favorite site. Lets say the Feds get their s%!t together and the new Federal Court House project gets going. A land swap deal with the city will free up land in Hemisfair for this to happen:



***I used AUTOZONE PARK from Memphis for scaling. It is one of the tightest configured AAA Parks.

[Spoiler]

Thanks for those graphics. I do like the idea of having the Tower of the Americas just beyond the outfield.

[JACKinBeantown]

If the city of San Antonio decides to burden itself with the costs of building a AAA baseball park for a corporation (I mean a baseball franchise!) it would be wise to plan ahead so it could be expandable to major league proportions.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown

If the city of San Antonio decides to burden itself with the costs of building a AAA baseball park for a corporation (I mean a baseball franchise!) it would be wise to plan ahead so it could be expandable to major league proportions.

That's the plan.

[fordman2800]

Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown

If the city of San Antonio decides to burden itself with the costs of building a AAA baseball park for a corporation (I mean a baseball franchise!) it would be wise to plan ahead so it could be expandable to major league proportions.

Oh wow....I thought I had posted somewhat something similar to this a couple days ago.

[JACKinBeantown]

Originally Posted by fordman2800

Oh wow....I thought I had posted somewhat something similar to this a couple days ago.

So you get the credit.

Thanks, sirkingwilliam, for the answer.

[venshard]

I'm really trying to understand San Antonio's fixation w/ trying to build sports venues in the downtown area. I've been here for 3 years and I just don't see it as being something fruitful....seeing as how the rest of downtown needs some fixing first..
I guess from my experience when living in Dallas, the new Cowboys stadium in Arlington brought some infill and development in the immediate area of the stadium, but even that was slow.
Maybe I'm misguided, but I live in downtown and there several other things that could benefit it more than a baseball stadium. Thoughts?

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by venshard

I'm really trying to understand San Antonio's fixation w/ trying to build sports venues in the downtown area. I've been here for 3 years and I just don't see it as being something fruitful....seeing as how the rest of downtown needs some fixing first..
I guess from my experience when living in Dallas, the new Cowboys stadium in Arlington brought some infill and development in the immediate area of the stadium, but even that was slow.
Maybe I'm misguided, but I live in downtown and there several other things that could benefit it more than a baseball stadium. Thoughts?

San Antonio's ego suffers because the city only has one pro sports team, even though that team is literally the best pro sport franchise in the entire world. It's just not good enough for our sports-mad populace, we need more teams, preferably NFL, but we'll settle for other, lesser sports, and don't try telling us that other things should take priority, because we ain't gonna listen! We are irrational and petulant about this.

[JACKinBeantown]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

San Antonio's ego suffers because the city only has one pro sports team, even though that team is literally the best pro sport franchise in the entire world. It's just not good enough for our sports-mad populace, we need more teams, preferably NFL, but we'll settle for other, lesser sports, and don't try telling us that other things should take priority, because we ain't gonna listen! We are irrational and petulant about this.

Oh, skyscraperpage needs a like button.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

San Antonio's ego suffers because the city only has one pro sports team, even though that team is literally the best pro sport franchise in the entire world.

Well, the Spurs gave birth to France's all-time greatest player. The guy is a 4-time NBA winner, and served our national team with so much passion that he was sometimes exhausted from it, losing some of his skills from the fear to fail, to not be up to it... Talking about Parker. We probably know him even better than you do. He's pretty exceptional in every respect, including his human aspects. He's a fighter. He's been so faithful to our country... It's been too much to bear for a single guy.

Now there's still a problem about American football. It means nothing much outside the US. For example, we've got manly intense rugby elsewhere, even when we're crushed by merciless New Zealand or Australia at that harsh game. Same issue to baseball to a lesser extent. The world ain't really familiar with it. But we certainly would kill to make the Euro basketball league as powerful as the NBA. There's no question about it.

I think hockey is worth watching, however, even though it's not pop enough over here. But some other significant Euro regions can play and appreciate hockey. Needless to say, it's the same in Canada and the upper Midwest. So I sense something pretty interesting to it.

[Fireoutofclay]

500-space garage, retail planned for Commerce Street
By Benjamin Olivo
mysa.com
October 19, 2015 at 12:41 PM
http://blog.mysanantonio.com/downtow...mmerce-street/

An entity called Market/Commerce Street Parking LLC has submitted to the city plans for a 500-space, 10-level parking garage at the southwest corner of Commerce and Navarro streets, according to this week’s Historic and Design Review Commission agenda.

The garage would also include 13,000 square feet of retail — enough for two restaurants and three retail shops, according to the plans.

Residential would be lovely on top.

[JACKinBeantown]

I applaud the 13,000 square feet of retail, but you're right... apartments on top would be lovely, and smart.

It's currently a parking lot with some nice trees.
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4242...8i6656!6m1!1e1

[kornbread]

So that would be one whole block of parking lots.

They do need parking downtown, and that is a good location as a base for visiting downtown. However....

It seems like a waste of a prime location. I really wish the city would be smart and initiate a strategy for making it easy to get in and out of downtown; reducing the traffic in the downtown streets. People are going to drive on Commerce and Market and look to park there. Lots of cars sitting at lights spewing out fumes.

I would be in favor of rather large parking garages to be built off IH 37(east) & 35 (west) downtown that are easy to get in and out, that would link into a circulating shuttle/trolley/streetcar route where you park and take that to your downtown destination.

The old SAWS location or a couple blocks east on one side, and parking near the westside transit center west.