Wolff rolls out another plan for light rail... It's looking good!

[sirkingwilliam]

MYSA.com Link

In a quest to propel San Antonio into the modern light-rail era, County Judge Nelson Wolff on Wednesday revived an idea first floated — and eventually pulverized by activists — more than 15 years ago.

An old Southern Pacific rail line running 18 miles from Probandt Street south of downtown to upscale shops, hotels and condos going in at The Rim north of Loop 1604 will be open for other uses in a few years.

Why not use the tracks for light rail, Wolff told a blue-ribbon committee charting the city's transportation future.

The cost should be much cheaper than the $45 million a mile Houston and Dallas spent to join the club of rail cities, those at the meeting agreed. And once people see how wonderful riding rails can be and how stations can spur villagelike developments, they'll be hooked on getting more.

“The first line is the hardest,” said committee member Bill Barker, a consultant who once worked for VIA Metropolitan Transit. “This is a great opportunity that shouldn't be passed over.”

Officials did pass on the idea in 1993 after a protracted dogfight that ended up involving dozens of neighborhoods. Activists said they were shut out of the planning and wouldn't benefit from the service.

Early on, the plan was dubbed as a “theme train” to go from west of downtown to the doorstep of Fiesta Texas. Later, it was deemed as a light-rail solution to link major activity clusters such as the Medical Center, USAA and the University of Texas, though they are miles away from the tracks.

Activists such as Bonnie Conner, who cut her political teeth on the issue before serving two terms on the City Council years later, didn't buy it. Wednesday's rebirth struck her by surprise.

“You're kidding,” she said after a brief laugh. “Oh my goodness. I hope that they're including the whole community.”

A 1993 feasibility study, noting the public resistance and also that the line still would carry freight, said passenger service wasn't feasible.

But Union Pacific, which now owns the tracks, recently said that quarries using the rails to haul gravel a few times a day soon will relocate.

And Wolff, who as mayor in the early 1990s led the efforts to get passenger rail, said this year's sky-high gas prices might have melted some of the past hostilities.

“The price of gasoline changes a lot of ideas,” he said Wednesday.

Specifics on a light-rail plan still need to be fleshed out, including working a deal with UP, doing studies and coming up with funding.

Committee members, expected to come up with a strategy covering roads and transit by the end of the year, said they were on board with Wolff's suggestions Wednesday.

“This is a big deal,” said committee Chairman Bill Thornton, another warrior from the 1990s rail fight. “This could change things.”

[sirkingwilliam]

With the quarry being relocated, does anyone think the line will now continue to Military Highway? That is what I proposed in the other thread.

[jaga185]

Interesting, I hope it passes this time.

[oldmanshirt]

Sounds like a cool idea, but let's not get too excited yet.

[max777]

I think light rail is an excellent idea for San Antonio, especially for tourism.
What would the world do if San Antonio got a subway? Would it care?
Make light rail a reality! Don't be left behind in the past, San Antonio!!!! I think not only the mayor, but the city council is coming to its senses. The lengthening of the San Antonio River or The Riverwalk is also long overdue. Spread the wealth all over Texas.
Like the old saying goes, "Ask and ye shall receive".

[oldmanshirt]

^^^I agree. The problem is that the city council won't be around very long thanks to term limits. If you look at the comments to the article, those are the people who's minds you're gonna have to change. Unfortunately, the median age of those people is probably somewhere around 105 years old, and those people don't generally change their minds on stuff. They do, however, love to get out and vote against things.

[satxgreen]

i was talking to someone who works for the UP and they said that that line is mostly used for the quarry. And once its gone the line is mostly dead other than some small business along the track...
if this quarry's gone then it looks like that Rims goning to get a little bigger??? i wonder if VILLA MUSE fits in the quarry?

[alexjon]

I'm guessing the rail corridor if built will be a developer's playground-- and certainly Villa Muse could fit in the equation both space-wise and development flow-wise.

[KeepSanAntonioLame]

Check out all the comments on mysa.com. 31! No one ever comments on articles (except the AH front yard pool thing).

[sirkingwilliam]

That quarry will be prime, and I mean prime, for redevelopment. If there's one thing SA can do with abandoned quarries, it's redevelop them.

Though with the recent events with Bullis, it'd go through a lot of scrutiny.

[alexjon]

DoD: "You're building us light rail but letting people build hundreds of thousands of square feet and millions of dollars of retail around the line? Yeah, that's a totally efficient set-up."

[tgannaway89]

That quarry is too close to Camp Bullis. Recent news may sink property values if city gets control of development within 3-miles of Camp Bullis. They will side with the Army and halt development(s). I would expect to see a lot of lawsuits when the city tries to shut down The Rim, La Cantera, eilan, The Landmark, La Joya, and Cresta Bella (not to mention the headache this will cause UTSA and Valero with respect to future expansions/additions).

[sirkingwilliam]

Tgannaway, the county is trying to get control not the city, even with that power granted, they can't shut down any developments just regulate zoning for land not currently being developed.

Also, if I read that article correctly, they only have power of land that belongs to Bexar county not the city of San Antonio.

Bottom line, they can not shut down developments.

[electricron]

Sounds like an excellent route for light rail, or regional rail to me.

Regional rail would be far less expensive than light rail to build and operate, mainly because the service frequency between headways is 20 to 30 minutes, vs every 5 to 10 minutes.

Dart builds most of its light rail lines over abandoned freight tracks. Dart's costs are around $50 million per mile, including the purchase of the right-of-way. For significantly less, around $5 (CapMetro) to $15 (DCTA) million per mile, regional rail can be built. The difference between CapMetro's and DCTA costs can be attributed to DCTA having to replace all the tracks, while CapMetro is continuing to use most of the existing tracks.

A significant cost for light rail is running electric lines along the tracks. NCTCOG estimate $1.6 million per mile per track. A double track light rail line cost $3.2 million per mile just to electrify.
New single track, all you'll need for regional rail, costs around $1 million per mile. You'll have to pay $2 million per mile for double tracks, whether for light rail or regional rail.
Then there's new "Quiet Zone" signal installations all along the route, costing up to $.5 million at each intersection. And that doesn't include the costs for the trains and stations.


Downtown San Antonio to Loop 1604 is approximately 13 miles. At $50 million per mile for light rail, total construction costs should be near $800 million. At $15 million per mile for regional rail with all new tracks, total construction costs should be near $195 million. At $5 million per mile without new tracks, total construction costs should be near $80 million. Of course, whether San Antonio needs to lay new tracks depends upon the condition of the old tracks, but I would plan on doing so before starting service to provide a great first impression and the smoothest ride.

Without any freight, or very low number of freight trains a day, the option for using cheaper FRA non-compliant DMU trains is a good possibly.

Like CapMetro's Stadler GTWs, or NJT River Line Stadler GTWs trains.
CapMetro Rail
NJT River Line
Note: The River Line GTW train is smaller than CapMetro's, and can turn tighter curves with a minimum turning radius of 130 feet, vs CapMetro's 300 feet. Most real light rail trains minimum turning radius is 82 feet, and most streetcars are 50 feet. How tight your train must turn depends upon whether they plan to run the trains down city streets downtown around corners.

Other DMU's used in North America:
Siemens Desiro by San Diego Sprinter
Bombardier Talent by Ottawa's O Train
Colorado Railcar DMU by Florida's TriMet

There's plenty of light rail vendors supplying light rail cars in North America. But I suggest San Antonio buy DMUs, and save significant funds constructing electric lines to power the trains. Dart and Metro require a full cent sales tax to support running light rail trains. DMUs can be supported by a half cent sales tax. How much funding San Antonio is willing to tax itself will determine what San Antonio will build.

[urban_encounter]

This is great news for SA. Make it happen......

[verbl]

Any new news on this fellas??? I really want this to happen...like we all do

[KevinFromTexas]

82% say they might use rail
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc..._use_rail.html

With gas prices wreaking havoc, most San Antonio residents have cut back on driving and would consider riding rail, according to a survey released Monday.

Two out of three people said they're making fewer vehicle trips, while one out of four have bought a more fuel-efficient car, says the 2008 Regional Transportation Attitude Survey, which was done in March as gas prices were climbing to this summer's historic highs.

[verbl]

http://www.ksat.com/video/index.html


Look for the video on the light rail prop. Sounds very promising We need to make more people aware of this thing as well.....Ps there is a town hall meeting mentioned as well, if I was there in SA I would be there in a heart beat.

[sirkingwilliam]

Looks like VIA is joining the Light Rail discussion.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/tra...t_service.html

[jaga185]

Sweet! They are post-poning rapid bus to further study feasibility of rail. I hope they scrap that idea all together.