{SA} VIA's Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) Plans Unveiled

[sakyle04]

VIA has launched their BRT plans officially now, which can be found in detail on their dedicated website www.viabrt.net.

I grabbed some graphics from their site:

Site Home Graphic


BRT Timeline


Fred Rd Route Map


Typical Station


WestSide (Cattleman SQ) MultiModal Center


And the info on the first route:

The BRT line will travel mostly along Fredericksburg Road connecting the South Texas Medical Center to downtown San Antonio. VIA is planning to develop a transit terminal at both ends of the route.

On the northwest end of the line is the proposed Medical Center Transit Center. From there the line travels on Medical Drive through the South Texas Medical Center to Fredericksburg Road. Once on Fredericksburg Road the line travels through Balcones Heights and the Deco District. At Fredericksburg Road and Woodlawn Avenue the BRT line will enter IH-10 and travel a short distance, exiting near the proposed Westside Multimodal Center (WSMM) in Cattleman's Square. From the WSMM the line travels east through downtown on Market Street to the Robert Thompson Transit Center before making the return trip.

The line is approximately 8 to 10 miles in length and will serve the two transit centers at the ends of the BRT line, 6-8 station locations along the corridor, and several stops in the central business district.

I, for one, love how the line is going to run on Market St downtown and utilize the transit center at the Alamodome. This is the first step in gaining a more advanced mass transit system in SA.

We can whine about how we'd rather have the much sexier Light Rail (LRT), but the fact is that this is what we're getting for now...

So....what do you think?

[sakyle04]

More on the WSMM...

The Westside Multimodal Center

On the other end of the BRT line just west of downtown San Antonio will be the Westside Multimodal Center. Just as the name implies, this facility will offer seamless travel connections for several modes of transportation in addition to BRT including bus service, the much anticipated Austin-San Antonio commuter rail, inter-city bus lines, and taxi services. The Westside Multimodal Center also has great potential to stimulate economic development on the near-west side.

[M1EK]

They're fooling themselves if they think any transit-oriented development will occur with BRT (or this half-assed implementation of it, then again, they're almost all half-assed). It's still an ugly jerky bus.

[jaga185]

So they are planning on putting all the necessary requirements for rail on that multimodal station. This is a good start, sounds good to me, I can't wait.

[sakyle04]

Originally Posted by M1EK

They're fooling themselves if they think any transit-oriented development will occur with BRT (or this half-assed implementation of it, then again, they're almost all half-assed). It's still an ugly jerky bus.

A PDF on the VIA site (which looks like it was produced by Parsons) says that by 2020 they expect...

443 new housing units
21,000 sq ft of retail
12,000 sq ft of office

...as a result of this development (and all in mixed-use, high-density fashion).

[STLtoSA]

This BRT line is not what they are making it out to be. Not even half of the project will be on dedicated lanes. So the rest of the time it will be running on the street (and IH-10). The BRT is not going to run on market, you will connect on to other buses that will take you through downtown from the multi-model center. Its not VIA's fault, the ROW just doesn't exist.

During construction this is going to be a mess because the city will be doing construction on all major cross streets simultaneously.

This is not going to do all that much...and by the time that it is finished there will be plans for light rail and one of the most plausible arterials will no longer be an option.

I am not saying that BRT is bad. I just think that BRT is good as a support for light rail. It almost seems like VIA is throwing in the towel on light rail.

The sad thing is that light rail such as Houston's does not take up any more room than BRT.

[alexjon]

Originally Posted by M1EK

They're fooling themselves if they think any transit-oriented development will occur with BRT (or this half-assed implementation of it, then again, they're almost all half-assed). It's still an ugly jerky bus.

Please comment-- they have a form!

A PDF on the VIA site (which looks like it was produced by Parsons) says that by 2020 they expect...

443 new housing units
21,000 sq ft of retail
12,000 sq ft of office

...as a result of this development (and all in mixed-use, high-density fashion).

Here is what moderately dense TOD numbers should look like:

Mike Hlastala has seen the future. And it runs on rails.

His year-old company plans to build more than 700 apartments and 40,000 square feet of shops a few steps from Sound Transit's Othello Street light-rail station on Martin Luther King Jr. Way.

And:

Over the past year private, for-profit developers have proposed more than 1,500 condo and apartment units within a 10-minute walk of a rail station. They will be the Rainier Valley's first multifamily projects built without government subsidies in more than 30 years, city officials say.

This is for a small segment of Link Light Rail. More at (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...42_mlk20.html).

[oldmanshirt]

It's something, but it does seem rather telling that they almost go out of their way to not mention LRT when describing the WSMM.

[alexjon]

Originally Posted by oldmanshirt

It's something, but it does seem rather telling that they almost go out of their way to not mention LRT when describing the WSMM.

They blast rail transit in their description of what BRT is, so it's obvious where they stand.

I sent them a letter but since they seem to run out anyone who advocates LRT, I doubt anyone will side with me.

[sakyle04]

Originally Posted by alexjon

Please comment-- they have a form!



Here is what moderately dense TOD numbers should look like:



And:



This is for a small segment of Link Light Rail. More at (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...42_mlk20.html).

to be fair, the VIA numbers are only for WSMM. that doesn't take into consideration any development around the medical center or any of the stations. although that is likely to be minimal, it may indeed add up to something.

i am not thrilled that light rail is not the choice here - but it is an improvement for this corridor and who knows what it may spawn. i have wanted the sexier light rail for a long time now and i understand the justifications that transit authorities have to make (price per mile and on and on)... that they could build this whole line including transit centers for $110M is pretty telling. that finances how many miles of light rail?

also, my hope is that this system will defy popular sentiment and it will attract the "white collar" public that is said to be loathe to ride buses. $4 gas has changed the dynamics of who will ride public transport.

also, considering the modest investment ($110M), this line could easily be upgraded to LRT in the case that SA ever gets on board. more likely, this becomes one aspect of a better mass transit system in SA, including a River North streetcar and some commuter rail with Austin and SA's outlying suburbs.

[alexjon]

Unfortunately, the amount of riders new to buses will not increase that much. To many (if not most), this is simply a bus that makes fewer stops. There is no exclusivity or higher-crust sentiment associated with BRT beyond the fact that they're overcharing taxpayers for something easily accomplished with a few bus lanes and a small fleet of New Flyer 60' artics.

I think the orange line in LA proves this pretty well. Phoenix has revised ridership projections that indicate higher interest in their new LRT system and an increased share in their pre-existing BRT's ridership that more than likely exceed BRT ridership numbers by a margin that is not commensurate with service and capacity changes. That is to say, the starter line in Phoenix will capture the BRT ridership for that alignment and will still add to the rider base.

[M1EK]

The word in the field is that you don't get ANY TOD with BRT. None. You actually get a decrease in high-quality development with regular bus service, so this isn't quite as bad for BRT as it sounds - namely, BRT's service characteristics are enough of an improvement over regular buses that they can at least barely make up for the fact that people don't like to live on/next to roads with a lot of buses on them.

The TOD they're touting is more than likely simply TAD - cases where the pre-existing density was set way too low for market conditions; the impending transit service gives an excuse to lift the density caps a bit; the market comes through with units (or plans for units); and we have to pretend it was due to the transit mode.

Remember - TOD relies on people being willing to spend more money to get 'less' in terms of housing 'value' to live next to a high-quality transit line. You aren't going to get that with buses - not even 'better buses', because 'better buses' still suck.

[KeepSanAntonioLame]

BRT is fine for now. The WSMMC is great, because it paves the way for better options in the future (commuter rail etc)

[alexjon]

You build demand through incremental service improvements, not incremental mode improvements. I have a feeling that if BRT is "good enough" for our highest-used corridor, there will be little chance of getting LRT in other corridors. Furthermore, since this service opens in 2012 and rail will take AT LEAST as long to deploy, don't hold your breath on seeing local rail service in SA until the 2020s unless Nelson Wolff pulls something spectacular off.

[oldmanshirt]

The River North streetcar is still on, right? That's probably the best rail SA is going to get for the forseeable future, so hopefully they can at least expand it throughout downtown.

[KeepSanAntonioLame]

The city has the third draft of the river north planning posted on their web site, dated July 2008, and it still has the street car part in it, so I assume it's still on.

[Paul in S.A TX]

This is all great, but, I hope this doesn't put Light Rail in the back burner. San Antonio, being one of the fastest growing cities, I don't feel this little system will be adequate for a city the size of San Antonio, will grow to be. They should be planning for something on a larger scale, now.

A cool link on green modes of transportation, and similiar buses.
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...3599&scoring=p

[Trae]

Originally Posted by M1EK

They're fooling themselves if they think any transit-oriented development will occur with BRT (or this half-assed implementation of it, then again, they're almost all half-assed). It's still an ugly jerky bus.

I agree. TODs don't really happen with bus transit.

[M1EK]

There is no path from BRT to rail transit which makes sense. If you're buying into it thinking they're going to 'upgrade' to rail later, you're a sucker.

[Trae]

Originally Posted by M1EK

There is no path from BRT to rail transit which makes sense. If you're buying into it thinking they're going to 'upgrade' to rail later, you're a sucker.

Especially with the alignment for this thing. It goes onto I-10, meaning into traffic.