Portage and Main re-opening 2016

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Pretty sure left turns are already disallowed during rush hour.

Left turns are allowed 24/7. Like I said I actually use all these streets year round for business. I know what traffic is like as I am in it.


As for the person who mentioned all the stupid one way streets. I agree with you 100%. That alone would ease traffic. Plus that's the way it used to be before some idiot had the idea of making it all one way. If they did that the traffic on portage and main would probably lesson as people could take other routes.

As for taking away a lane as traffic and streets are now. Well a month ago Hydro was doing some work on main in front of The now Artis building. That one lane caused traffic backed up north to almost Selkirk avenue. So please understand the most busy intersection is already to small for its traffic volumes.

Memorial doesn't have the traffic that P&M has either so stop comparing them. Also if you insist on using it as a comparison. Start driving and see how many close calls pedestrian get. And all the people walking when it's a green light for motorists. It's also a high car vs people accident area.


ALL I am saying it takes a lot more then removing some concrete and letting people cross and all will be well.

It will take a huge reworking of how the streets and traffic work. Or you will have accidents out your yingyang.

All I hear here is a band aid idea. Do it right or don't do it at all. And by right it means take everything into account and the entire area and not just the barriers.

Traffic
Lights ( traffic one )
Entrances to the concourse below
Some street scapeing to at least make it look nice. Add some trees and benches and maybe ever a fountain In front of Richardson.
Get some fancy lighting up for the area to make it a destination. Make it bright!!!
Reroute some traffic n onto other streets.

And most of all some proper signage for cars and people.

[Cyro]

hmm..the debate continues



Traffic engineer-led urban renewal at work: a disabled woman is led away from a demonstration against the closing of the Portage and Main intersection she was attending, 1978.

http://riseandsprawl.blogspot.ca/200...m-tribune.html

When cities redesigned to be against human activity, it's always the marginal members of society most adversely affected

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Left turns are allowed 24/7. Like I said I actually use all these streets year round for business. I know what traffic is like as I am in it.

Obviously you are extremely inattentive. Cause you're completely wrong. From Portage heading west. Left onto Gary prohibited afternoon rush. Left onto Donald prohibited all times. Left onto Carlton prohibited afternoon rush. Left onto Vaughn prohibited all times. From Portage headings East. Left onto Hargrave prohibited afternoon rush. Left onto Smith prohibited afternoon rush. Left onto Fort prohibited all times.

Kennedy is the only left turn in that stretch that's allowed 24/7.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Left turns are allowed 24/7. Like I said I actually use all these streets year round for business. I know what traffic is like as I am in it.


As for the person who mentioned all the stupid one way streets. I agree with you 100%. That alone would ease traffic. Plus that's the way it used to be before some idiot had the idea of making it all one way. If they did that the traffic on portage and main would probably lesson as people could take other routes.

As for taking away a lane as traffic and streets are now. Well a month ago Hydro was doing some work on main in front of The now Artis building. That one lane caused traffic backed up north to almost Selkirk avenue. So please understand the most busy intersection is already to small for its traffic volumes.

Memorial doesn't have the traffic that P&M has either so stop comparing them. Also if you insist on using it as a comparison. Start driving and see how many close calls pedestrian get. And all the people walking when it's a green light for motorists. It's also a high car vs people accident area.


ALL I am saying it takes a lot more then removing some concrete and letting people cross and all will be well.

It will take a huge reworking of how the streets and traffic work. Or you will have accidents out your yingyang.

All I hear here is a band aid idea. Do it right or don't do it at all. And by right it means take everything into account and the entire area and not just the barriers.

Traffic
Lights ( traffic one )
Entrances to the concourse below
Some street scapeing to at least make it look nice. Add some trees and benches and maybe ever a fountain In front of Richardson.
Get some fancy lighting up for the area to make it a destination. Make it bright!!!
Reroute some traffic n onto other streets.

And most of all some proper signage for cars and people.

Streetscaping/landscaping is paramount. The entire intersection needs a makeover, not just to be opened to pedestrians. I would love to see a large fountain in the Richardson plaza.

[raggedy13]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Obviously you are extremely inattentive. Cause you're completely wrong. From Portage heading west. Left onto Gary prohibited afternoon rush. Left onto Donald prohibited all times. Left onto Carlton prohibited afternoon rush. Left onto Vaughn prohibited all times. From Portage headings East. Left onto Hargrave prohibited afternoon rush. Left onto Smith prohibited afternoon rush. Left onto Fort prohibited all times.

Kennedy is the only left turn in that stretch that's allowed 24/7.

I believe Bluenote was referring just to the intersection of Portage and Main, which does allow left turns during rush hour.

[bomberjet]

There's no left turn on three legs of P&M.

WB Portage to NB Main left turn is controlled by dedicated signals. So technically you're always allowed to turn left. But only when the signal tells you to. There's no "turn when it's safe on green light" there, which would be an issue at any intersection with that number of lanes and is basically prohibited by standards of engineering.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by raggedy13

I believe Bluenote was referring just to the intersection of Portage and Main, which does allow left turns during rush hour.

Well he responded to my post commenting on: "Example of this would be any left turn on portage between main and memorial. Those turning lanes are big enough for a smart car and that's it. "

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

If that's the compromise that is necessary to make this happen, then I can get behind it.

So all Portage Avenue eastbound traffic has to funnel on to tiny Portage Avenue East? I'm not following this argument, I guess.

I don't think that you can get around the fact that there are major logistical and safety issues to be resolved before the intersection could be re-opened to pedestrians. The idea that there would be no safety island at P&M doesn't seem to me to be very realistic.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Andy6

So all Portage Avenue eastbound traffic has to funnel on to tiny Portage Avenue East? I'm not following this argument, I guess.

Well, it would seem to me that cutting out one of the five eastbound lanes or one of the three westbound lanes on Portage would create enough room for this median pedestrian island which is apparently now of paramount importance despite the fact that many other intersections along Main or Portage don't have them. We can let the traffic engineers figure out which configuration would make the most sense.

I don't think that you can get around the fact that there are major logistical and safety issues to be resolved before the intersection could be re-opened to pedestrians. The idea that there would be no safety island at P&M doesn't seem to me to be very realistic.

Just why is it so critical? Again, several intersections along Main and Portage have pedestrian crossings where there is no place to wait in the middle. Main and York, Broadway, McDermot and Bannatyne are a few that come to mind. How do those intersections work without a pedestrian island?

People can handle crossing ten lanes of Main Street (including turning lanes) in front of Union Station without an island on a daily basis but they can't handle crossing eight lanes of Portage? Really?

[robertocarlos]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Pretty sure left turns are already disallowed during rush hour.

I think he means "no left turns ever".

[robertocarlos]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Kennedy is the only left turn in that stretch that's allowed 24/7.

Probably because the bus needs to turn left onto Kennedy.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Left turns are allowed 24/7. Like I said I actually use all these streets year round for business. I know what traffic is like as I am in it.


As for the person who mentioned all the stupid one way streets. I agree with you 100%. That alone would ease traffic. Plus that's the way it used to be before some idiot had the idea of making it all one way. If they did that the traffic on portage and main would probably lesson as people could take other routes.

As for taking away a lane as traffic and streets are now. Well a month ago Hydro was doing some work on main in front of The now Artis building. That one lane caused traffic backed up north to almost Selkirk avenue. So please understand the most busy intersection is already to small for its traffic volumes.

Memorial doesn't have the traffic that P&M has either so stop comparing them. Also if you insist on using it as a comparison. Start driving and see how many close calls pedestrian get. And all the people walking when it's a green light for motorists. It's also a high car vs people accident area.


ALL I am saying it takes a lot more then removing some concrete and letting people cross and all will be well.

It will take a huge reworking of how the streets and traffic work. Or you will have accidents out your yingyang.

All I hear here is a band aid idea. Do it right or don't do it at all. And by right it means take everything into account and the entire area and not just the barriers.

Traffic
Lights ( traffic one )
Entrances to the concourse below
Some street scapeing to at least make it look nice. Add some trees and benches and maybe ever a fountain In front of Richardson.
Get some fancy lighting up for the area to make it a destination. Make it bright!!!
Reroute some traffic n onto other streets.

And most of all some proper signage for cars and people.

I also use these streets year round, for business. You're being hysterical.


Suburban values don't apply in urban areas. Keeping pedestrians and vehicles separated like you want will be impossible without all but losing one. Slower traffic is a boon to pedestrian safety and comfort. The free ride we're looking for is impossible without making every other form of transportation more attractive than driving.

[oftheMoon]

The Tim Tompkins, President of the Times Square Alliance discussion from a few weeks back is online now. It's long but interesting:

http://downtownwinnipegbiz.com/portageandmain/

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by biguc

I also use these streets year round, for business. You're being hysterical.


Suburban values don't apply in urban areas. Keeping pedestrians and vehicles separated like you want will be impossible without all but losing one. Slower traffic is a boon to pedestrian safety and comfort. The free ride we're looking for is impossible without making every other form of transportation more attractive than driving.

Did you read everything I posted. I did the pros and cons and all you seem to have read was the cons.

[emeraldeyes]

I found this amusing.

http://http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/mayor-brian-bowman-portage-main-1.3615162

[emeraldeyes]

[esquire]

^ It's been that way for a while now, weeks if not months. Classy.

The whole thing is disgraceful, the stairway down to the concourse which is just behind the vantage point of where that photo was taken is a dank, badly kept hole that looks like an entry into a maintenance tunnel.

Meanwhile over by BMO on the opposite corner, the concrete sidewalk leading down to the stairway is an absolute shambles.

[emeraldeyes]

[emeraldeyes]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ It's been that way for a while now, weeks if not months. Classy.

The whole thing is disgraceful, the stairway down to the concourse which is just behind the vantage point of where that photo was taken is a dank, badly kept hole that looks like an entry into a maintenance tunnel.

Meanwhile over by BMO on the opposite corner, the concrete sidewalk leading down to the stairway is an absolute shambles.

I thought I would just post some photos and let an organic discussion develop. I'm with you though, it's a mess. These images are from a few weeks ago. Hopefully it wasn't this bad when we had company over (those conventions) recently.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by emeraldeyes

I thought I would just post some photos and let an organic discussion develop. I'm with you though, it's a mess. These images are from a few weeks ago. Hopefully it wasn't this bad when we had company over (those conventions) recently.

It's almost like somebody knows that the whole area will be revamped soon.