Does an Anglo-Canadian become more Canadian by learning French?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Anglo Canadian to me means quite literally you're either English or possibly Scots-Irish/Ulster and/or Metis heritage.

I'd disagree that it's that narrow. (See other post.)

And Métis makes no sense as most Métis are English-speaking its true but in terms of origins their European side is generally French, not British.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The overuse of Anglo Canadians in this thread infers they are one and the same which couldn't be further from the truth. .

For the purposes of the thread and more specifically the relationship to Quebec and its main language (French), it makes absolutely perfect sense to group those Canadians, regardless of origins, who mostly don't live in this province and experience Canadian society (from the education system to Canadian Tire to kids' sports to the Canada Revenue Agency) in the English language as a single entity that we can call "Anglo-Canadians".

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For the purposes of the thread and more specifically the relationship to Quebec and its main language (French), it makes absolutely perfect sense to group those Canadians, regardless of origins, who mostly don't live in this province and experience Canadian society (from the education system to Canadian Tire to kids' sports to the Canada Revenue Agency) in the English language as a single entity that we can call "Anglo-Canadians".

Some people are impossible to please. You try every variation under the sun "european canadian" "you people" "anglos" "british' loyalist and the list goes on.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

Some people are impossible to please. You try every variation under the sun "european canadian" "you people" "anglos" "british' loyalist and the list goes on.

Quebec and even French-speaking Canada (which overspills Quebec's borders) also have a ton of diversity within them. I mean, how could it not be the case? It includes different pronvincial jurisdictions and its heart (the area where French is the main everyday language) spans over 2000 km from end to end, or about the same distance as Brest on the west coast of France to Brest in Belarus.

But contrary to some Anglo-Canadians (that darned moniker again!) we don't have any problem discussing when appropriate either Quebec or even French Canada as tangible entities that have certain characteristics.

[Chadillaccc]

Answer to the actual thread title: Most certainly not, but knowing multiple languages does make someone a better, more competent global citizen. This is coming from someone who only speaks English and can only barely understand Quebecois French or even real French.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Answer to the actual thread title: Most certainly not, but knowing multiple languages does make someone a better, more competent global citizen. This is coming from someone who only speaks English and can only barely understand Quebecois French or even real French.

LOL! Québécois French is *real* French.

(I know it wasn't meant to be mean.)

[Chadillaccc]

It's not the same though. A ton of the phonetics (basically all three tenets; articulation, auditory, and acoustics) are different. On multiple occasions I've had people from France laugh at me when I said Quebecois people speak French. Their response was "hahaha, no, at best that is Hillbilly French". So, it may be "French" but it's a completely different dialect, significantly removed, which is why I prefer to call it "Quebecois", rather than "French" or even "Quebecois French" like I did in my previous post.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

It's not the same though. A ton of the phonetics (basically all three tenets; articulation, auditory, and acoustics) are different. On multiple occasions I've had people from France laugh at me when I said Quebecois people speak French. Their response was "hahaha, no, at best that is Hillbilly French". So, it may be "French" but it's a completely different dialect, significantly removed, which is why I prefer to call it "Quebecois", rather than "French" or even "Quebecois French" like I did in my previous post.

Are we really gonna go down that rabbit hole?

[harls]

Sticking the anglo or franco modifier in front of "Canadian" is going to rub people the wrong way, but I suppose that is the purpose of this thread.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

Sticking the anglo or franco modifier in front of "Canadian" is going to rub people the wrong way, but I suppose that is the purpose of this thread.

Something I guess they're just gonna have to learn to live with...

[begratto]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

It's not the same though. A ton of the phonetics (basically all three tenets; articulation, auditory, and acoustics) are different. On multiple occasions I've had people from France laugh at me when I said Quebecois people speak French. Their response was "hahaha, no, at best that is Hillbilly French". So, it may be "French" but it's a completely different dialect, significantly removed, which is why I prefer to call it "Quebecois", rather than "French" or even "Quebecois French" like I did in my previous post.

Yes it it the same.

Unless you consider that UK's English is the "real" English and that Canadian English should just be called "Canadian".

Reminds me of an anecdote of my university years. I spent 6 months in France for a uni exchange program; I got to travel a lot all around Europe with my friends. So this particular time I'm with 3 friends : a Brit, a French, a German. All 3 spoke French.

So we're doing the Heineken brewery tour in Amsterdam, which ends with a "all-you-can-drink" one hour session in their hall at the end. They assign us to a table where some English-speaking Canadian girls are already sitting. We chat for a bit, this being the polite thing do. Then, upon learning that I'm from Quebec and that I'm studying in France, one of the girls asks, with an annoying, whiny, nasal voice : "Do they understand your dialect in France?".

No one reacted for a second or two. Me and my 3 friends just looked at each other, and then they burst out laughing.

My British friend explained to her that he could understand her despite her Canadian accent, and that North American English accents are to the UK accent what Québécois accent is to the French accent.

But geez was I annoyed.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by begratto

Unless you consider that UK's English is the "real" English and that Canadian English should just be called "Canadian".

I laugh at Canadians unless they speak to me in real English like Queen Elizabeth!

The "French language in Canada" Wikipedia article does a good job of articulating the difference:

Quebec French is noticeably different in pronunciation and vocabulary from the French of France, sometimes called Metropolitan French, but they are easily mutually intelligible in their formal varieties, and after moderate exposure, in most of their informal ones as well.

These days I think just about every Francophone in Canada gets exposure to French media. This wasn't as true back in say the 1950's and 60's, back when these stereotypes had already formed. And just like around the English world, people used to have much stronger regional accents and dialects than they do today.

[Acajack]

It's always "fun" to get corrected or lectured about French by fellow Canadians who don't actually speak it, and whose views are based on what they heard from some random guy they met at a bar or a barbecue.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's always "fun" to get corrected or lectured about French by fellow Canadians who don't actually speak it, and whose views are based on what they heard from some random guy they met at a bar or a barbecue.

Hey, that guy probably got an A- in Real French 101!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

Hey, that guy probably got an A- in Real French 101!

A relative of mine once taught FSL to adults in ROCer-land. Invariably at the start of every session someone would ask "Are we going to be learning Quebec French or real French?"

Since this person is Franco-Ontarian, the answer was always: "You'll be learning Canadian French which is totally *real* French. And if by chance any of you ever get good enough at it, you'll be just as fine getting by in Paris as you will in Montreal".

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Are we really gonna go down that rabbit hole?

There's no rabbit hole to go down, that is what happened, more than once. I'm certain I'm not the only one here who has been told that either.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Since this person is Franco-Ontarian, the answer was always: "You'll be learning Canadian French which is totally *real* French. And if by chance any of you ever get good enough at it, you'll be just as fine getting by in Paris as you will in Montreal".

There was a sort of meme going around about the Quebec dub of a Simpsons episode where Bart goes to France. He starts talking to a police officer who can't understand him until he learns to speak differently.

A few people (English speakers) have told me about this and they talk about how it's so elegant that they built this into the translation. They perceive it as Bart initially speaking Quebec-style French and then transitioning to proper Parisian French:

https://twitter.com/matttomic/status...17255591268353

But Bart actually goes from informal Quebec French to informal Metropolitan French (e.g. "Y a ces deux mecs qui me font ramer jour et nuit et ils me donnent rien à claper"). For all of these words there are neutral versions that would be perfectly understandable to any Canadian or French Francophone. And I think any Francophone in Canada would know "mec" (while the Canadian would tend to say "gars" more) or "gendarme". Also in the episode it's the French police officer who uses more Anglicisms like "chewing gum".

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by harls

Sticking the anglo or franco modifier in front of "Canadian" is going to rub people the wrong way, but I suppose that is the purpose of this thread.

This is why I often question whether or not Canada is even a real country, people literally get outraged by even trying to explain the idea of Canadian culture without referring to a mailing address.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

A relative of mine once taught FSL to adults in ROCer-land. Invariably at the start of every session someone would ask "Are we going to be learning Quebec French or real French?"

Since this person is Franco-Ontarian, the answer was always: "You'll be learning Canadian French which is totally *real* French. And if by chance any of you ever get good enough at it, you'll be just as fine getting by in Paris as you will in Montreal".

In junior high school, our French teacher told the students that she was teaching us Acadian French which is different from Quebecois French, which was different from the French that they spoke in France... Blank faces proliferated the room until she explained that there are only small differences and usually most of it slang. To this day I don't know if I speak Acadian French, Quebecois French, or 'real' French (lol)... but actually I think for me, it all falls under 'broken' French...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

There's no rabbit hole to go down, that is what happened, more than once. I'm certain I'm not the only one here who has been told that either.

Yes, misinformation abounds. I suppose people say similar things about some Scottish accents, but those folks are speaking English (or at least that's their story and they're sticking to it!).