The Great Canadian Practice your French Thread

[lio45]

Originally Posted by vid

Brilliant! We can't do this in English.

Well, in English it's still perfectly possible to do the same thing (needlessly lengthening a sentence for emphasis), just not in that exact manner in that exact case. But the idea is the same.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I already figured tsé out.

English has a direct equivalent to it (y'know) so it's super easy to master. (After you get told what it is... 'cause I'm sure it's puzzling at first)

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by lio45

English has a direct equivalent to it (y'know) so it's super easy to master. (After you get told what it is... 'cause I'm sure it's puzzling at first)

Funny enough, tsé seems uniquely québécois, because one time I was watching a short segment of an episode of Hors Québec by Vincent Poirier and crews, who are all franco-ontarians, they would say the full form tu sais.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Funny enough, tsé seems uniquely québécois, because one time I was watching a short segment of an episode of Hors Québec by Vincent Poirier and crews, who are all franco-ontarians, they would say the full form tu sais.

Must be just them. Tsé is definitely used by francophones outside Quebec.

[Dengler Avenue]

Alright~

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For adjectives like important/e(s) and différent/e(s), sometimes I see people put them in front of a noun, sometimes behind. Any idea why? I know the rules that physical adjectives (petit/e, long/ue) need to go before the nouns, but what about these two??

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Funny enough, tsé seems uniquely québécois, because one time I was watching a short segment of an episode of Hors Québec by Vincent Poirier and crews, who are all franco-ontarians, they would say the full form tu sais.

"tsé" is definitely used by my francophone friends and family here in Timmins and in the surrounding region.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Makes one wonder whether Ontario French could slightly diverge from that of Quebec over time?

It definitely already has. For example, the accents in French are noticeably different between Timmins and Rouyn-Noranda among people who were born and raised in those cities. Then there are huge differences in terminology and other things due to societal differences. And while many old expressions are used in both places, the newer ones aren't often the same. Many Francophones here aren't comfortable speaking with Quebecers in many cases because they are embarrassed about the way they speak.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Alright~

=====
For adjectives like important/e(s) and différent/e(s), sometimes I see people put them in front of a noun, sometimes behind. Any idea why? I know the rules that physical adjectives (petit/e, long/ue) need to go before the nouns, but what about these two??

Not sure why. I just go with my natural feel although in a number of cases it still works even if you put the adjective before or after the noun.

Though there are some notable exceptions.

The classic one being:

un homme grand = a tall man

un grand homme = a great man

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

It definitely already has. For example, the accents in French are noticeably different between Timmins and Rouyn-Noranda among people who were born and raised in those cities. Then there are huge differences in terminology and other things due to societal differences. And while many old expressions are used in both places, the newer ones aren't often the same. Many Francophones here aren't comfortable speaking with Quebecers in many cases because they are embarrassed about the way they speak.

I was actually going to answer him on this last week but it slipped my mind.

I totally agree with you that it's already happened to a significant degree.

Although you do get a YMMV aspect to it with some families. There are people under 50 or 60 in Timmins, Kap or Sudbury that could fairly easily pass for someone from Rouyn. But they are increasingly rare with each passing generation.

I've also noticed that something similar to the (admittedly/arguably) anglo-tinged NE Ontario Franco-Ontarian accent is making significant inroads in Ottawa and Eastern Ontario - these are places that until just a couple of generations ago had little noticeable accent differences with neighbouring regions of Quebec.

Another interesting aspect is that while Québécois and Franco-Ontarien accents are diverging, Acadien speech in northern New Brunswick seems to be becoming more similar to Québécois, with Acadien accent flourishes becoming more subdued and traditional Acadien terms slowly dying out.

This is ironic because NB Acadiens by and large are not descended from Québécois whereas probably 90+% Franco-Ontariens definitely are, with a huge chunk and maybe a clear majority just a generation or two removed from people who were Québécois.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Loco101

"tsé" is definitely used by my francophone friends and family here in Timmins and in the surrounding region.

How much French you actually know is once again a mystery to me.

Originally Posted by Loco101

It definitely already has. For example, the accents in French are noticeably different between Timmins and Rouyn-Noranda among people who were born and raised in those cities. Then there are huge differences in terminology and other things due to societal differences. And while many old expressions are used in both places, the newer ones aren't often the same. Many Francophones here aren't comfortable speaking with Quebecers in many cases because they are embarrassed about the way they speak.

It's okay. Even Franco-Manitobans have their own terms and even accents too.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure why. I just go with my natural feel although in a number of cases it still works even if you put the adjective before or after the noun.

Though there are some notable exceptions.

The classic one being:

un homme grand = a tall man

un grand homme = a great man

The two words that I listed have a direct English counterpart. (I forgot the name for that kind of words.) Could it be an English influence?

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was actually going to answer him on this last week but it slipped my mind.

I totally agree with you that it's already happened to a significant degree.

Although you do get a YMMV aspect to it with some families. There are people under 50 or 60 in Timmins, Kap or Sudbury that could fairly easily pass for someone from Rouyn. But they are increasingly rare with each passing generation.

I've also noticed that something similar to the (admittedly/arguably) anglo-tinged NE Ontario Franco-Ontarian accent is making significant inroads in Ottawa and Eastern Ontario - these are places that until just a couple of generations ago had little noticeable accent differences with neighbouring regions of Quebec.

Another interesting aspect is that while Québécois and Franco-Ontarien accents are diverging, Acadien speech in northern New Brunswick seems to be becoming more similar to Québécois, with Acadien accent flourishes becoming more subdued and traditional Acadien terms slowly dying out.

This is ironic because NB Acadiens by and large are not descended from Québécois whereas probably 90+% Franco-Ontariens definitely are, with a huge chunk and maybe a clear majority just a generation or two removed from people who were Québécois.

I have always had a feeling that Franco-Ontarians in the Ottawa Valley are/were different from those in NEO.

I was thinking the same thing with N.B. French too. When I was ordering at the McD's at Edmundston, I heard a cashier speaking French, but it definitely sounded Québécois not Acadien.

=====

I was just enjoying my dinner somewhere in Waterloo's University District then I heard a Chinese guy speaking full-on Québécois French on the phone. He even had that accent when he said "parents" too. It was so cool.
Too bad I could only make out bits and pieces of what he was saying, something like, "Mes parents sont convaincus que les états unis ... paient." Based on the context, I kind of parsed out that he was saying his parents are convinced that they pay more in the states. By the way, I have actually met quite a few Chinese Montrealers and one white guy from Ville de Québec when I was in school.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/L%E2%...du_Nipissingue

Just some random link that I found on internet, I don't know how reliable it is. Goodness, I don't wanna reopen this debate about the term Outaouais, but it seems that back then people would have referred to Upper Ottawa Valley as (La) Vallée de l'Outaouais Supérieur. Also, like Témiscamingue, Nipissingue was also spelled with ue at the end.

Wow, even Sturgeon Falls has a French name: La chûte de la Rivière aux Esturgeons.

[esquire]

This one's for Acajack!

https://twitter.com/orfali/status/1311023514363850752

[esquire]

...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

This one's for Acajack!

https://twitter.com/orfali/status/1311023514363850752

LOL that's great! Or, it's so bad that it's great!

[lio45]

"Danger due to recurring costs of doing business" - in Ottawa, you might have a stroke when you see the numbers!

That's my takeaway from that sign!

[rousseau]

From a Twitter account in Quebec:

"C'est simple: les mêmes droits pour tout le monde, qu'on pratique une religion ou pas."
Google translate: "It's simple: the same rights for everyone, whether you practice a religion or not."

Is this how "whether" is generally expressed in French? I didn't understand the sentence until I flipped it into English.

[lio45]

Yep, it's one of those turns of phrase that happen to match close to perfectly (by happenstance; in this particular case, it's pretty clear it evolved separately).

whether X or not <--> que X ou pas

If it were me, I'd have translated that into a shorter English version ("it's simple; here, Law trumps Religion") because I always prefer to "clean sheet translate" (i.e. understand the concept, then start over in the target language to express it).

[lio45]

Also, how come you're following Quebec accounts (in French)...? Weird

I'd have thought you'd stay on your side of the Two Solitudes divide, like 99% of RoCers. (Not that that would be wrong. It's what I find reasonable and expect.)

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by lio45

Also, how come you're following Quebec accounts (in French)...? Weird

I'd have thought you'd stay on your side of the Two Solitudes divide, like 99% of RoCers. (Not that that would be wrong. It's what I find reasonable and expect.)

I started looking at Twitter more and more last year. A couple of posts from Quebeckers in French popped up in my feed one day and I decided to follow them. I try to read without resorting to auto-translate as much as I can, which is maybe 50% of the time.

I'm not doing in-depth reading, and I skip over them when I'm not really in the mood to work my brain in another language. They probably represent about 10% of the posts I see.

Reconciliation: one Quebec Twitter post read by an anglo Canadian at a time!

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by lio45

Yep, it's one of those turns of phrase that happen to match close to perfectly (by happenstance; in this particular case, it's pretty clear it evolved separately).

whether X or not <--> que X ou pas

So "que" does double duty as "whether" sometimes? Cool, I did not know that.

Originally Posted by lio45

If it were me, I'd have translated that into a shorter English version ("it's simple; here, Law trumps Religion") because I always prefer to "clean sheet translate" (i.e. understand the concept, then start over in the target language to express it).

Well, as someone in the trade, I can tell you that this all depends on purpose and intended readership. You can't do that for a document used as evidence in a legal dispute, but you can for poetry or fictional prose.

It's always amusing when people raise their eyebrows in awe when I tell them I translate Chinese medical and scientific research into English in the form of patents and journal articles, not to mention medical records and pharmaceutical filings. I explain that precision in expression is key, so there's minimal brain-taxing interpretation involved in my work.

Trying to reproduce a Chinese metaphor or ancient saying into English, on the other hand, takes real effort. Plus there's no money in poetry and fiction. This makes for an easy decision when it comes to choosing your subject matter.