DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

So we protect the jews from development a week after we do the opposite with a different ethnic group living by east colfax. Hmm

Seriously? That's your take on this? Casting sidelong antisemitic glances? You know this is the same neighborhood, same neighbors, and same RNOs that lost zoning battles against apartments and low income housing all over the neighborhood, right? And that their religious affiliation has absolutely nothing to do with the decision? No, you probably don't because you would rather toss hints at the terrible garbage that is stewing within your mind on a public forum.

I can't believe that this is still tolerated and he hasn't been banned. Seriously, just kick him off of here, it's been done for so much less before.

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by mojiferous

Seriously? That's your take on this? Casting sidelong antisemitic glances? You know this is the same neighborhood, same neighbors, and same RNOs that lost zoning battles against apartments and low income housing all over the neighborhood, right? And that their religious affiliation has absolutely nothing to do with the decision? No, you probably don't because you would rather toss hints at the terrible garbage that is stewing within your mind on a public forum.

I can't believe that this is still tolerated and he hasn't been banned. Seriously, just kick him off of here, it's been done for so much less before.

seriously yourself?
there is nothing antisemitic about this. the quote directly references saving the jewish community from displacement.

you should be ashamed for being such an intolerant sanctimonious small world thinking closed minded shame troll.

perhaps you should be banned for calling me anti semitic. that's extremely unfair and dangerous but you'd rather stand way high on your perch of piousness.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

seriously yourself?
there is nothing antisemitic about this. the quote directly references saving the jewish community from displacement.

you should be ashamed for being such an intolerant sanctimonious small world thinking closed minded shame troll.

perhaps you should be banned for calling me anti semitic. that's extremely unfair and dangerous but you'd rather stand way high on your perch of piousness.

If your post wasn't antisemitism then what was it? All I see is antisemitism. That was a crazy frickin' thing to post man.

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by kemachs

Well you know - they taketh here, they giveth there... What I think is silly is that their opposition to the rezoning revolves around affordability, yet allowing more units to be built in the city is precisely what would (ideally) fulfill demand and bring prices down. Why is there no logical person at these meetings that can present this simple argument?

Second thought: is "affordability" just a red herring, because it galvanizes people more than "destroys the character of our neighborhood" or other NIMBY talking points?

I was there and so were a handful of others. Our arguments weren't as persuasive as 50 folks showing up and claiming that a 3 story rezoning was going to destroy their way of life and their community. Just like there are climate deniers, we're in the midst of a huge wave of housing denial. The difference here is that housing denial is bipartisan and incredibly prevalent in government and amongst college educated folks.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by kemachs

Well you know - they taketh here, they giveth there... What I think is silly is that their opposition to the rezoning revolves around affordability, yet allowing more units to be built in the city is precisely what would (ideally) fulfill demand and bring prices down. Why is there no logical person at these meetings that can present this simple argument?

Second thought: is "affordability" just a red herring, because it galvanizes people more than "destroys the character of our neighborhood" or other NIMBY talking points?

There objection was specific to losing single family homes. Having typically big families they want to preserve these. The Dirt's reference to "Amish Jews" is a good one for Orthodox Jews. Haredi (Orthodox) Judaism is much more traditional and observant.

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

So we protect the jews from development a week after we do the opposite with a different ethnic group living by east colfax. Hmm

Not sure which dots you're trying to connect or perhaps I should say which 'conspiracy' you're alluding to?

The more relevant point is the makeup of the City Council which voted 11-2 in their favor in a heavily Hispanic area. It's easy enough to detect the ethnicity of all council members; what their religious affiliation would be or why that would matter is beyond my grasp.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by laniroj

While this saying is historically accurate, it doesn't have to define our country moving forward. The problem is widespread, affecting tens of millions of, primarily, younger Americans, and it isn't isolated to a few places - essentially every urban area (including it's suburbs) is dealing with housing (un)affordability. If the system isn't working, why not change it? Why not follow the Japanese model and reform zoning and land use at the national level to make it work for everyone - not just those who are of higher means or older age? The ability of whether or not that is possible considering the insane clown posse we have governing us is another topic, but why not strive for that sort of solution if the local politics ain't workin'?

The very last thing we need is more Federal Nannyism. I don't want the Federal gubment dictating what morals or values should be enacted at the local level and unless it involves interstate commerce they should respect state's rights as well.

You greatly exaggerate the problem and where it exists. There's lots of land across this country where housing affordability varies substantially. There's loads of people in Denver who survive making minimum wage or at least a lower wage.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Just like there are climate deniers, we're in the midst of a huge wave of housing denial. The difference here is that housing denial is bipartisan and incredibly prevalent in government and amongst college educated folks.

It's fair to say that whether housing, climate or many other issues there are a wide variety of opinions.

BTW, I panicked 30 years ago when I was told "we had ten years to reverse climate change." Fast forward 30 years and nobody has yet turned into dust.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

The more relevant point is the makeup of the City Council which voted 11-2 in their favor in a heavily Hispanic area. It's easy enough to detect the ethnicity of all council members; what their religious affiliation would be or why that would matter is beyond my grasp.

They voted 11-2 because Sandoval, whose District this was in, didn't support the rezone. It's custom for Council members to follow the wishes the affected Council member in a rezoning like this. If Sandoval had supported it and it had lost it would have been far more of a contentious decision and reflective of an increased NIMBYism on the Council. That's the real relevant point on this mess.


As for the Orthodox Jewish community in the area: fuck it. It will have died out in another decade or so or will priced out. Then the neighborhood can be bulldozed flat.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

They voted 11-2 because Sandoval, whose District this was in, didn't support the rezone. It's custom for Council members to follow the wishes the affected Council member in a rezoning like this. If Sandoval had supported it and it had lost it would have been far more of a contentious decision and reflective of an increased NIMBYism on the Council. That's the real relevant point on this mess.


As for the Orthodox Jewish community in the area: fuck it. It will have died out in another decade or so or will priced out. Then the neighborhood can be bulldozed flat.

Good gawd almighty; you're always wishing for many 'of us' to die off. You and Halloween are both morbid af.

With respect to how the DCC members support each other, that's interesting. Wasn't aware of this, hadn't thought about it.

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

It's fair to say that whether housing, climate or many other issues there are a wide variety of opinions.

BTW, I panicked 30 years ago when I was told "we had ten years to reverse climate change." Fast forward 30 years and nobody has yet turned into dust.

A wide variety of opinions doesn't mean that are a wide variety of facts. Fact is that 20 years ago, it would have been very easy to stop or reverse catastrophic climate change. Now, our grandchildren are basically going to have to live with it. Climate really does take a while, but you'll be happy to know that you and your generation will be long gone and won't have to deal with the consequences of your actions.

Arguably, the Syrian crisis was spurred on by drought that was the direct result of climate change. The consequences of this is thousands dead in needless wars, refugees, and the resurgence of fascism and xenophobia in the western world.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by rds70

Here is the first decent drawing I've seen of the Hyatt Centric Hotel planned at 18th and Champa. Construction is planned to start before the end of the year. 14 stories, 173 feet tall, 263 rooms, 0 parking spaces:



Interestingly, all the meeting space, including an outdoor event space, and the fitness room are on the 14th floor.

There's a commercial construction permit issued for this one as of 8/23/19. It'll be great to see this take off.

[The Dirt]

The lot was taped off when I walked by on Tuesday. There's also a pretty exciting 8 story proposal at Franklin & Colfax.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by RyanD

There's a commercial construction permit issued for this one as of 8/23/19. It'll be great to see this take off.

Overview of where this hotel will fit into the urban fabric downtown. Really nice infill building in a pretty quiet part of the CBD. The Ghost building next door has been vacant for years, maybe this will make a restaurant space more viable at that corner.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Good gawd almighty; you're always wishing for many 'of us' to die off. You and Halloween are both morbid af.

Does my dark humor offend you? Or are you tacitly admitting that this is ultimately another case of Baby Boomers shitting on everyone else to preserve their little slices of heaven no matter the cost?

Perhaps a safe space is in order?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

A wide variety of opinions doesn't mean that are a wide variety of facts. Fact is that 20 years ago, it would have been very easy to stop or reverse catastrophic climate change. Now, our grandchildren are basically going to have to live with it. Climate really does take a while, but you'll be happy to know that you and your generation will be long gone and won't have to deal with the consequences of your actions.

OMG you are so naive.

I was a part of an activist crowd that pushed to create the Environmental Protection Agency. At that time most people didn't even know what "Environmental" referred to or why a protection agency was a good idea.

https://www.epa.gov/history

EPA History. Born in the wake of elevated concern about environmental pollution, EPA was established on December 2, 1970 to consolidate in one agency a variety of federal research, monitoring, standard-setting and enforcement activities to ensure environmental protection.

After I graduated from CU in '71, I later lived in Aspen in the mid-1970's. Boulder and Aspen were two of the most environmentally active places in the country. The arguments were about promoting "clean air and clean water." Later conservation was added to the cause.

For 5 decades Colorado has been the center of environmentalism. Even the Western Slope Republicans have been friends. When your livelihood comes from tourism and/or ranching having clean air and water is important. Even the tourists who would come up from Texas for fly fishing preferred their trout have less rather than more mercury inside.

You should at least have some recall of Gov Ritter's pushing a New Energy Economy. He also got the state to spend tons of $'s on retrofitting the state buildings to be energy efficient. He served from 2007-2011.

https://energy.colostate.edu/people/bill-ritter-jr/

Bill Ritter, Jr. is the founder and director of the Center for the New Energy Economy (CNEE) at Colorado State University which launched on February 1, 2011. The Center employs an assistant director, three senior policy advisors, an executive assistant and a team of student researchers.

The Center works directly with governors, legislators, regulators, planners, policymakers, and other decision makers. It provides technical assistance to help officials create the policies and practices that will facilitate America’s transition to a clean-energy economy.

Hickenlooper was Denver's mayor from 2003-2011. He was strong on being green with his tree planting program as well as other things. He spearheaded the passage of the Better Denver Bond Program in 2007 which focused a lot of $'s to improving Denver's parks through waster conservation etc.

No president has done more for environmentalism than President Obama. If you are unfamiliar or have forgotten I'm sure you could still Google it.

It's amazing how today's activists act like saving the planet was just invented. I promise, I've forgotten more about the environment and pollution than you've ever learned.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Does my dark humor offend you? Or are you tacitly admitting that this is ultimately another case of Baby Boomers shitting on everyone else to preserve their little slices of heaven no matter the cost?

Perhaps a safe space is in order?

I love her, she is so nice. She's the assistant director at my assisted living community.

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

you should be ashamed for being such an intolerant sanctimonious small world thinking closed minded shame troll.

perhaps you should be banned for calling me anti semitic. that's extremely unfair and dangerous but you'd rather stand way high on your perch of piousness.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Calling out the suggested racism of your very public post is neither intolerant, nor trolly, nor is it a personal attack. Unlike your response. And it certainly is not some form of hypocritical virtuousness, unfair, nor in the least bit dangerous. Certainly not as dangerous as insinuating that "the Jews" are getting special treatment. It is merely an observation that your comment mirrors centuries of well-known antisemitic slurs and if you did not intend it to be read that way, maybe you should rethink how you wrote it, apologize, and expand upon what you were originally intending. Instead of attacking me for having the gall to call out a disgusting comment. Go on and whip out the thesaurus and find more adjectives for me dude, it still won't change the implied meaning of your original comment.

And in the context of this forum - the neighborhood defeated a measure to upzone as opposed to downzone. Almost every example of zoning battles in east Denver and across the city that were successfully upzoned have been neighbors fighting against or complaining about something that is allowed under the current zoning. 99% of the ones that neighborhoods have defeated have been ones like this, where the developer is wanting to build something that isn't "allowed". We've talked about it before, but the last few years have really illustrated how zoning is a broken tool. And especially when it is decided in a public forum where city council members have to face down constituents. It's much easier for them to defer to zoning or the law and not confront angry people. This was why I had high hopes for changes in zoning, with more sensical main street and upzoned areas, but alas, 'tis still junke.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

OMG you are so naive.

I was a part of an activist crowd that pushed to create the Environmental Protection Agency. At that time most people didn't even know what "Environmental" referred to or why a protection agency was a good idea.

https://www.epa.gov/history

After I graduated from CU in '71, I later lived in Aspen in the mid-1970's. Boulder and Aspen were two of the most environmentally active places in the country. The arguments were about promoting "clean air and clean water." Later conservation was added to the cause.

For 5 decades Colorado has been the center of environmentalism. Even the Western Slope Republicans have been friends. When your livelihood comes from tourism and/or ranching having clean air and water is important. Even the tourists who would come up from Texas for fly fishing preferred their trout have less rather than more mercury inside.

You should at least have some recall of Gov Ritter's pushing a New Energy Economy. He also got the state to spend tons of $'s on retrofitting the state buildings to be energy efficient. He served from 2007-2011.

https://energy.colostate.edu/people/bill-ritter-jr/


Hickenlooper was Denver's mayor from 2003-2011. He was strong on being green with his tree planting program as well as other things. He spearheaded the passage of the Better Denver Bond Program in 2007 which focused a lot of $'s to improving Denver's parks through waster conservation etc.

No president has done more for environmentalism than President Obama. If you are unfamiliar or have forgotten I'm sure you could still Google it.

It's amazing how today's activists act like saving the planet was just invented. I promise, I've forgotten more about the environment and pollution than you've ever learned.

I’m sure your environmental bona fides are better than most, but this retort seems a little tone deaf (no offense). True, since the 1970’s, a lot of awareness has been created around the effects of pollution, but it’s just a small blip in the increasingly negative impact that humans are creating for this planet. I’m glad there is less lead in the paint and fewer pesticides in our streams, but the amount of carbon released into atmosphere has risen every year, has it not?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

I’m sure your environmental bona fides are better than most, but this retort seems a little tone deaf (no offense). True, since the 1970’s, a lot of awareness has been created around the effects of pollution, but it’s just a small blip in the increasingly negative impact that humans are creating for this planet. I’m glad there is less lead in the paint and fewer pesticides in our streams, but the amount of carbon released into atmosphere has risen every year, has it not?

Fair enough...


...
Images courtesy of EPA

Originally Posted by TakeFive

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n..._news_headline

When President Obama signed The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) on February 17 the whole world changed. In addition to $billions in incentives for renewable energy, it also included amendments to:

• Energy Policy Act of 2005
• Energy Policy Act of 1992
• Public Utility Regulatory Policies Act of 1978
• Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935
• Title 16 U.S.C.: Conservation

As expected the opposition party loved to make fun of renewable energy. Within a few years the red states of Kansas and Oklahoma were competing with each other by adding state incentives on top of the Federal incentives for Wind Energy. Texas became the No. 1 state for amount of Wind Farms. Miles and miles of solar energy farms now exist near the border between California and Arizona and Nevada.

Meanwhile countries including Germany, China, Japan and Korea were competing to be leaders in renewable energy industries.

China is adding a London-sized electric bus fleet every five weeks


Source

The one part of Pres Obama's plan that didn't take hold was EV's (electric vehicles) but in addition to what China is already doing, $billions are currently being spent on R&D by the auto industry towards their production.

At this point, I'm delighted to pass the torch to Gen Y et al and look forward to hearing about the next legitimate, funded game changers.

Post Script: The goal should be to incentivize as opposed to penalize.

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

The lot was taped off when I walked by on Tuesday. There's also a pretty exciting 8 story proposal at Franklin & Colfax.

What are the plans for colfax and Franklin? Sre they going to get permission to tear down the ‘historic’ vape shop and bourbon grill?

[The Dirt]

No they are going to be rehabbed.