DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[Robert.hampton]

https://denverite.com/2019/09/17/rtd...n-gravel-park/

And RTD is.....still run by a bunch of visionless morons that cant manage a transit system or their own real estate. My favorite quote:

'“Besides which, we don’t have the money to do anything. The very first thing I asked when I saw that gravel pit was, ‘Can’t we at least put sod on it and make it look presentable? And I was told, ‘no, we don’t have the money for it.’ ”

And then other members of RTD's board go on to say the park would be disgusting anyways (great way to pitch this lot to potential developers!). And to top it off they punch the final nail in our coffin by suggesting a medal of honor museum is a stupid idea. I'd say we were a long shot to start, but our bid is completely dead now.

So I guess the board will continue on slumlording that lot, pondering how much money they could make by 'renting' it to food trucks or scooter companies (two users which don't pay for the real estate they park on....brilliant idea).

[Interzen]

From yesterday morning:



I have seen a preliminary rendering but I can't find it at the moment.

Site Development Plan
1225 Santa Fe
Log Number: 2017PM0000157
Proposed Use: Dwelling, Multi-Unit
Proposed Height: 95'
Proposed Stories: 8
Parking Spaces: 58
At a block away I should have a good view from my back yard

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Interestingly, according to laniroj some projects are stalled due to investment return concerns. This 'limitation' to development could potentially move projects forward figuring the economics would improve.

Except they won't be able to build them because of the growth cap...I have a project stalled in Lakewood, victim of the growth cap...we'll simply turn into a static housing market where families entrench themselves forever in the same home, further exacerbating the haves vs the have nots. Ultimately, the boomers will die off and in 20 years this will all be behind us. Think of the growth cap as a 20 year play to "preserve" the quality of remaining life for those over age 50.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Realistically, what do you think that would look like? Is there any legal framework for a ballot measure to mandate housing diversity / zoning liberalization? (Would be great to throw parking maximums and multimodal transportation funding in there, but that may be asking too much.) Or would that just be ignored by municipalities under Home Rule doctrine?

Seems that voter referenda are the only way to get things done in this state. Wihle legislatures in Oregon, California and Massachusetts have at least attempted reform in this regard, I don't see that happening here.

I'm not an attorney, but given Trump's antagonism and general love of real estate development, I could foresee a federal initiative to address this - maybe even if Trump is out and Warren is in - she's stated zoning as being something she wants to address. If the house/senate stay blue/red, I could foresee a scenario with a Trump or Warren presidency where the feds pass some overruling legislation pre-empting these housing growth laws (because remember, this only applies to housing permits, not office/hotel/industrial/retail development). Remember, this is not a Denver issue - housing (un)affordability is something happening en masse nationwide in urban metros and beyond, not just city centers. It is now a national issue affecting all generations of Americans born after 1980 - Mitch McCommie just might take that cause up and if republicans are smart they'll take this issue up and maybe win over several generations of people whose #1 struggle is housing.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

https://denverite.com/2019/09/17/rtd...n-gravel-park/

And RTD is.....still run by a bunch of visionless morons that cant manage a transit system or their own real estate. My favorite quote:

'“Besides which, we don’t have the money to do anything. The very first thing I asked when I saw that gravel pit was, ‘Can’t we at least put sod on it and make it look presentable? And I was told, ‘no, we don’t have the money for it.’ ”

And then other members of RTD's board go on to say the park would be disgusting anyways (great way to pitch this lot to potential developers!). And to top it off they punch the final nail in our coffin by suggesting a medal of honor museum is a stupid idea. I'd say we were a long shot to start, but our bid is completely dead now.

So I guess the board will continue on slumlording that lot, pondering how much money they could make by 'renting' it to food trucks or scooter companies (two users which don't pay for the real estate they park on....brilliant idea).

This is the site, not the one adjacent to Civic Center Station:

[BG918]

Originally Posted by Interzen

From yesterday morning:



I have seen a preliminary rendering but I can't find it at the moment.

Site Development Plan
1225 Santa Fe
Log Number: 2017PM0000157
Proposed Use: Dwelling, Multi-Unit
Proposed Height: 95'
Proposed Stories: 8
Parking Spaces: 58
At a block away I should have a good view from my back yard

162 units


https://denverite.com/2018/07/11/122...-drive-anchor/

[Interzen]

Thanks, that was where I saw the details.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

And then other members of RTD's board go on to say the park would be disgusting anyways (great way to pitch this lot to potential developers!). And to top it off they punch the final nail in our coffin by suggesting a medal of honor museum is a stupid idea. I'd say we were a long shot to start, but our bid is completely dead now.

RTD's competence at real estate development is unparalleled. Just look at the stupendous achievements they've made thus far in unlocking value with their holdings....

However, I'd say the bid isn't exactly a long shot. Arlington's visionary museum in a parking lot outside of the Cowboy's stadium isn't exactly aspirational and neither location has a rich military history to draw upon.

But Kate Williams is a worthless bag of flesh. Her comment on the museum needs an appropriate response such as a bag of severed dicks lefts on her doorstep for her to feast upon.

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by BG918

This is the site, not the one adjacent to Civic Center Station:

Right but the foundation building the museum has said they see that civic center plot of land as an essential piece to the museum.

And the fact the board clearly couldn't look beyond the annual payment and to the potential to put a national cultural site a block away from your second busiest transportation hub that will bring in hundreds of thousands of visitors a year....and surely hundreds of thousands of dollars in ridership revenue.

Instead lets see if Chucks BBQ truck will pay us to park on our gravel lot.

[Denver Dweller]

https://businessden.com/2019/09/18/l...ce0b-147998669

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Interzen

Thanks, that was where I saw the details.

Yeah, me too. I recall reading about this but it's easy to lose track of what's going on if anything so both posts were instructive.

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

https://businessden.com/2019/09/18/l...ce0b-147998669

CA Ventures is just finishing this 30-story apartment tower in Phoenix. This is the 1st of a planned 3-tower mixed use development.


Courtesy CA Residential via AZ Big Media

[BG918]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

CA Ventures is just finishing this 30-story apartment tower in Phoenix. This is the 1st of a planned 3-tower mixed use development.

Wish we could see more of these 30 story towers instead of the parade of 5-8 story buildings in the MX-8 zoned areas and 12 stories if we're lucky in the MX-12.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

The Sheridan rezoning proposal was on the east side between 16th and 17th. It was going to be 2 stories on one end and 3 on the other due to the slope.

It's the facts I didn't have that make a difference. Color me ambivalent now that I know the backstory.

Hint: it's the Hispanics and the Jews against the Big Bad developers over gentrification and displacement.

City Council Rejects Rezoning Proposal Opposed by West Colfax Jewish Community
SEPTEMBER 17, 2019 By CONOR MCCORMICK-CAVANAGH - Westword

Amid vocal opposition from Jewish residents who live near West Colfax Avenue, Denver City Council rejected a rezoning request... Council voted 11 to 2 against the rezoning on land abutting the southwest corner of Sloan's Lake Park. Councilwomen Kendra Black and Jamie Torres were the lone "yes" votes.

Please explain your objections.

“Our community is not going to survive this. We are consistently seeing our community fall apart. Our young families are moving away. Young families that are seeking to move to our community don’t," said Aaron Steinberg, rabbi at the Zera Abraham synagogue in the neighborhood.

Residents in the surrounding area, many of whom are Orthodox Jews, argued at the meeting that traffic is bad and getting worse, there isn't anywhere to park, and that families aren't going to be able to afford buying a house in the neighborhood if single-family homes are knocked down and the land is sold to developers.

Councilwoman Amanda Sandoval, whose district includes the site of the proposed rezoning, agreed with Steinberg. "The Jewish community is suffering. It’s sad. I feel sad that all of you are being pushed out," Sandoval said.

This outcome may be unfortunate but I've said before and it's worth repeating: I honor the right of citizens to petition; I honor Democracy with our representative form even when it's messy and not to our liking.

[The Dirt]

Yeah, except their arguments were tantamount to me complaining that every time my neighbor mowed the lawn I got genital herpes. It's a nonsensical argument that correlated two completely different things. They're a nice bunch of folks but they're basically Amish Jews that have huge families and complain when their neighbors won't build them some 4-5 room single unit houses so that they can live in them.

[TakeFive]

What if one percent is really two percent?

Originally Posted by laniroj

Except they won't be able to build them because of the growth cap...I have a project stalled in Lakewood, victim of the growth cap...

Sorry to hear about your own project being caught up in Lakewood's idiocy. As for you Boomer silliness; in 20 years there will even more people over 50, so I guess your goose is cooked.

You mentioned recently a 30% drop in multifamily permits YOY. I had previously pointed out my suspicions that a lot of this drop came from the suburbs. Hold on to this point.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

The only way to stop the ballot measure is to make sure it doesn't get enough signatures. The current growth rate of the Front Range is about 2%, so it will essentially bake in an allowance for half the necessary housing to be built to account for growth.

Not picking on your specific comment but it stimulated an interesting perspective. I can't generate the data but I've got the concept.

Tomorrow; tomorrow
The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There'll be sun!

It's all about density. Picture a density map of metro Denver for starters. Much of the suburbs are largely built out with low to moderate density. Denver and Aurora OTOH have a lot more density.

Your 2% growth figure I'm assuming is population growth. What if between Denver and Aurora's 1% growth based on number of housing units (along with everything else in the metro area) added up to 2% population growth?

Thinking about Tomorrow, will the Boom go Bust?
Not sure about anything resembling a collapse but it's entirely likely there will be economic hiccups and the real estate boom could fade quite a bit. One percent may be all the demand there is?

How about these apples?
It's entirely possible, actually likely that a SURGE in construction of the Missing Middle will occur. That would presumably make some very happy.

Speaking of Aurora
It appears that Aurora is about to take off when it comes to more housing - both TOD and new airport neighborhoods. While not as dense as Denver it has what once was considered an obscene amount of apartments, condos, townhomes and attached housing.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Yeah, except their arguments were tantamount to me complaining that every time my neighbor mowed the lawn I got genital herpes. It's a nonsensical argument that correlated two completely different things. They're a nice bunch of folks but they're basically Amish Jews that have huge families and complain when their neighbors won't build them some 4-5 room single unit houses so that they can live in them.

Sorry to hear about your genital herpes.

Point well taken.

[twister244]

While this article doesn't have any new information, each of the RiNo projects listed has a link to a nice YouTube video.... Worth checking out:

https://milehighcre.com/2m-square-fe...nned-for-rino/

[TakeFive]

Clueless Bookends?

Originally Posted by laniroj

I'm not an attorney, but given Trump's antagonism and general love of real estate development, I could foresee a federal initiative to address this - maybe even if Trump is out and Warren is in - she's stated zoning as being something she wants to address.

Your decision comes down to "I have a plan for everything" or "I already have the answers." Unfortunately both amount to no more than clueless bookends.

Boom, boom, boomerang

It's always wise to remember that "All politics is Local." Locally, in many places the growth of socialism and promises of the moon, the sun and the stars are mighty hard to resist.

Certainly leading the parade is the growth of Nannyism in California. Certainly I'm interested to see how AB 5 plays out. No doubt the Bay Area has the highest density of HQ's per square foot of land. Someday I'd guess they'll also have the highest density of HQ's with 50 or fewer employees occupying those HQ's. California also has the distinction of having half the country's homeless population.

It's impressive how aggressively Colorado is in trying to emulate California. So many new policies, non which are without merit. But they have one thing in common: they're all business-unfriendly. None by themselves amount to all that much; taken collectively and a business-friendly reputation that described Colorado for years can change quickly.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring? Maybe Denver won't need that much new housing if the jobs and people stop coming?

[bulldurhamer]

So we protect the jews from development a week after we do the opposite with a different ethnic group living by east colfax. Hmm

Originally Posted by TakeFive

It's the facts I didn't have that make a difference. Color me ambivalent now that I know the backstory.

Hint: it's the Hispanics and the Jews against the Big Bad developers over gentrification and displacement.

City Council Rejects Rezoning Proposal Opposed by West Colfax Jewish Community
SEPTEMBER 17, 2019 By CONOR MCCORMICK-CAVANAGH - Westword

Please explain your objections.

This outcome may be unfortunate but I've said before and it's worth repeating: I honor the right of citizens to petition; I honor Democracy with our representative form even when it's messy and not to our liking.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Clueless Bookends?
It's always wise to remember that "All politics is Local."

While this saying is historically accurate, it doesn't have to define our country moving forward. The problem is widespread, affecting tens of millions of, primarily, younger Americans, and it isn't isolated to a few places - essentially every urban area (including it's suburbs) is dealing with housing (un)affordability. If the system isn't working, why not change it? Why not follow the Japanese model and reform zoning and land use at the national level to make it work for everyone - not just those who are of higher means or older age? The ability of whether or not that is possible considering the insane clown posse we have governing us is another topic, but why not strive for that sort of solution if the local politics ain't workin'?

[kemachs]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

So we protect the jews from development a week after we do the opposite with a different ethnic group living by east colfax. Hmm

Well you know - they taketh here, they giveth there... What I think is silly is that their opposition to the rezoning revolves around affordability, yet allowing more units to be built in the city is precisely what would (ideally) fulfill demand and bring prices down. Why is there no logical person at these meetings that can present this simple argument?

Second thought: is "affordability" just a red herring, because it galvanizes people more than "destroys the character of our neighborhood" or other NIMBY talking points?