Manitoba Highways

[Dengler Avenue]

Still, I wonder whether WSP designs stuff like that because they know that they can get away with that kind of design with the city and with the province.
WSP won’t be able to get away with stuff like that in Ontario.
In other words, the power that be is to blame as well. There may even be an echo chamber.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by rivercity

^Stantec acquired MH, not WSP. WSP however acquired Golder and the Enviro/Geotech arm of Wood (AMEC)

Ah, yes. You're right, got that mixed around.

[bodaggin]

Hey thx for first hand experience bomberjet. And Dengler I agree. I mixed up their service offering I think.

Is WSP engineering and design ONLY? Or do they do General Contracting and construction management too?

It confused me because they always seem to be awarded "design/build" contracts. Which to me means "design it" and "build it". But if they don't handle the build, then overly elaborate designs aren't so nefarious. I see Aecon got St Mary's construction, WSP only the design.

Next, how are they still getting work?

Their stamp is on North Perimeter plans, Carberry plans, McGillivray plans, St Mary's plans. And pretty much everything.

I can't find record of a public tender issued for Carberry design, McGillivray design, or even North Perimeter. There's nothing in MERX. I can only find for St Marys, and the bid is obscured like below. Are they on retainer? Or on "rent-a-politician" retainer?

I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist here. But surely there's more napkin sketchers than WSP to do this work.

[bomberjet]

WSP is a professional services company. They are part of design builds either as the owners engineer. Or as the engineer hired by an actual contractor to do the work.

For the perimeter upgrades. I believe they are barred from joining part of a design-build team for that work. To prevent this sort of conflict of interest. But I believe that tender is for the owner's engineer type role.

Also I'm not sure why they don't release the bids for engineering work like that. Me no likey. It may be due to the fact the RFP's are experience based as opposed to fee based.

Maybe someone who's more involved directly with this work can clarify.

[bomberjet]

Regarding other work, such as PTH 5. Again I'm not 100% up to speed. But they have pre-qualified engineering firms to do the work. And they may have some on retainer type contracts to perform as required work up to a certain dollar value. But we probably won't see those types of thing come through MERX.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'm not sure why they don't release the bids for engineering work like that. Me no likey. It may be due to the fact the RFP's are experience based as opposed to fee based.

Yes something is weird. Like they'll tender for supply of $10k of geotextile. But not for million dollar design services on one of the most important roads in the province? Why? Seriously, why?

And that enters the whole convo of tendering vs open-shopping vs in-house design.

Tendering is a terribly inefficient buying process. But, it's transparent, in theory.

From a design perspective, a centralized entity makes sense for road design, since each road and project plays into the next. These intricacies would be missed, causing errors, if a revolving door of design/engineers were deployed.

Which logically suggests: So in-house the design/engineering. A dedicated gov design/engineer department and all road designs come from them. Road design workflow is endless so this makes sense. However, gov is inherently dumb, inefficient, and works like 1.5hr a day. Especially in MB. So can an in-house gov team operate effectively? I dunno.

We just need good work, at a good price, at a fast pace. And for whatever reason(s), we're not getting that.

[Dengler Avenue]

This one is technically not in Manitoba, but close.
Extending Highway 17A east of Kenora Airport, anyone??
With the terrain and the watercourse crossings, it will cost quite a bit, but it cuts ~10 KM.
======
Ceci n'est techniquement pas au Manitoba, mais c'est proche.
Prolongement de l'Autoroute 17A à l'est de l'aéroport de Kenora, quelqu'un??
Ça coûtera cher à cause de la topographie et des ponts et des ponceaux, bien sûr, mais ça réduira ~10 KM.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

This one is technically not in Manitoba, but close.
Extending Highway 17A east of Kenora Airport, anyone??
With the terrain and the watercourse crossings, it will cost quite a bit, but it cuts ~10 KM.
======
Ceci n'est techniquement pas au Manitoba, mais c'est proche.
Prolongement de l'Autoroute 17A à l'est de l'aéroport de Kenora, quelqu'un??
Ça coûtera cher à cause de la topographie et des ponts et des ponceaux, bien sûr, mais ça réduira ~10 KM.

That would be expensive, but would be pretty functional.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

This one is technically not in Manitoba, but close.
Extending Highway 17A east of Kenora Airport, anyone??
With the terrain and the watercourse crossings, it will cost quite a bit, but it cuts ~10 KM.

Support.

It's easier to construct a new twinned road in the wide open, than work around traffic on an existing one. Unfortunately, any construction over the shield is expensive. But many of the blast tailings could be used as fill too. Avoiding bridges.

We discussed in DM about direct short-cuts from Nipigon to Upsala (bypassing T-Bay, saving ~70km) and White River direct to Sudbury (saving ~200km) as part of a full Hwy 17 twinning.

A fully twinned Coast-to-Cost TCH at 110kph+, with a goal of approaching 140kph+ in time, needs to be priority. Whatever the chosen route. (I'll stop here to stay on thread topic).

[Carboy15]

I could only dream of having a straighter Highway 17 in Ontario.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

I could only dream of having a straighter Highway 17 in Ontario.

As of right now, AADT on Kenora Bypass is only 3.3K. Maybe if more Manitobans go beyond Lake of the Woods and instead vacation along Wabigoon Lake or even as far as Sioux Lookout, there will be enough traffic (along with other factors) to justify twinning (including Dryden Bypass, which has been mapped out for 2 decades by now), which automatically includes straightening the windy section between K Town and Vermillion Bay.

Ps: I don’t expect anyone to have fun in T Bay, because apparently only gangsters will say something like that. I’ve heard that Kakabeka Falls are nice though, comparable to Niagara Falls.

#ShamelessAdvertisementForNWO

PS2: How does Lake of the Woods compare with Lake Winnipeg? I mean, which one is nicer?

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

PS2: How does Lake of the Woods compare with Lake Winnipeg? I mean, which one is nicer?

Lake of the Woods wins, hands down. Far more interesting terrain, at least on the more accessible parts. The most interesting parts of Lake Winnipeg are on the east side at Manigotagan and north of that, but there's no road there.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

As of right now, AADT on Kenora Bypass is only 3.3K. Maybe if more Manitobans go beyond Lake of the Woods and instead vacation along Wabigoon Lake or even as far as Sioux Lookout, there will be enough traffic (along with other factors) to justify twinning (including Dryden Bypass, which has been mapped out for 2 decades by now), which automatically includes straightening the windy section between K Town and Vermillion Bay.

Ps: I don’t expect anyone to have fun in T Bay, because apparently only gangsters will say something like that. I’ve heard that Kakabeka Falls are nice though, comparable to Niagara Falls.

#ShamelessAdvertisementForNWO

PS2: How does Lake of the Woods compare with Lake Winnipeg? I mean, which one is nicer?

You're comparing oranges to steak. LotW is way healthier due to the lack of agriculture and lack of a major watershed (hopefully the new government takes decisive action on Lake
Winnipeg's health). That said, Lake Winnipeg is waaaay more interesting. It's the 10th largest lake on Earth with some of the nicest beaches in the country in an area so ecologically significant and diverse, the UN has declared the Eastern shore a World Ecological Park. Lake Winnipeg really is pivotal in our culture and collective consciousness as Southern Manitobans. I sure hope we decide to help it heal as a province.

Also, the only way I go to Sioux Lookout or T Bay is if we annex NWO lmao.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

As of right now, AADT on Kenora Bypass is only 3.3K.

Keep in mind using current traffic numbers for Hwy 17 is the wrong KPI. Especially regarding thru traffic (Wpg to Toronto), because currently a large portion of truck traffic takes the USA route.

If a well built, high speed, direct link existed from Winnipeg to Toronto, that traffic would stop jumping the border and spill back into Canada.

This twinned Hwy 17 link is not only a national unity issue, it's a national security issue as well.

[Dengler Avenue]

This twinned Hwy 17 link is not only a national unity issue, it's a national security issue as well.

I agree with this completely. Unfortunately, the federal governments of all stripes seem notoriously complacent on this front. (@VANRIDERFAN correct me if I’m wrong.)

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I agree with this completely. Unfortunately, the federal governments of all stripes seem notoriously complacent on this front. (@VANRIDERFAN correct me if I’m wrong.)

You are not wrong. Our Federal leaders seem to be more interested being the mayor of Montreal or the Premier of Ontario vice being the Prime Minister of the second largest country on earth and our internal and external policies reflect that.

TCH was punched through the Rockies in the early 60's. We should have started a program of twinning and building grade separated intersections across the country at that time. We'd be done by now.

Interprovincial trade barriers needed to be dispensed with eons ago.

This is just for starters.

[Carboy15]

https://imgur.com/a/rzxQsM8

I have some ideas for the intersection of Hwy 12 and 210 near St. Anne MB. An RCUT could work, but I have a bit of a different idea, which is a segregated T-intersection and Partial Protected T-intersection with a NB Hwy 12 Riro at 210.Even though it would look like a confusion corner, I would find a Protected T-intersection a bit better, so here are my thoughts.

Partial Protected T-intersection
- Going NB Hwy 12 and wishing to go WB Hwy 210, you would be rerouted to the Hwy 207 Interchange 1.7KM North, and use the parclo loops to turn around on Hwy 12, go SB Hwy 12 and turn Right onto Hwy 210.
- Going EB Hwy 210 towards Hwy 12 wishing to go EB (or SB) Hwy 210 approaching La Broquerie, use the partial T-intersection acceleration lane to go NB Hwy 12 till 207 interchange, go EB Hwy 210.

Pros:
- Would be safer as the only way crossing traffic as 210 would only cross SB 12 to go North on 12.
- Way less conflict points, one conflict point crossing traffic, around 4 merging at 210, and some weaving, on Hwy 12. Therefore around 6 conflict points on Hwy 12 at 210.
- This could be used as an alternate route instead of going through St. Anne as there is a level railway crossing on the current Hwy 210 alignment. The route would be free of having to stop for trains, which is obviously why that interchange exists in the first place.

Cons:
- Between Hwy 210 and 207, there would be some weaving while coming onto NB Hwy 12 to go to EB Hwy 210 (Hwy 207 Interchange).
- The intersection would be pretty confusing for new drivers to that area.
- Despite being safer, it could possibly frustrate local residents as they would be required to drive a longer distance to go SB Hwy 12 or WB Hwy 210.

Throughout St. Anne, Hwy 210 would be concurrent with Hwy 207 from 210 Junction on the East side of town till Hwy 12.

BTW, sorry about my bad explanations. I'm not very good at explaining things LOL.


Also, reduction of speed limits could help at that intersection. If those changes could be made to the intersection, then the intersection could be close to foolproof, as long as the rules of the road are followed.

[Carboy15]

https://imgur.com/a/nx1UXym

Also, I think Hwy 1 and 16 should be converted to a Protected T-Intersection and Hwy 305 should be moved over 2 Miles East. That way, there'd be less conflict points with Hwy 1 and 16 and it could possibly make the intersection safer. Similar to Hwy 210 and Hwy 12

[Sasquatch]

Given that Manitoba is a have-not province and utterly dependent on Ottawa for funding of major infrastructure projects, at this rate our highway network will soon be outclassed by The Congo or Myanmar.

Considering the ideological bent of the current federal government, I was not surprised at this. I just wonder what took them this long.

“Our government has made the decision to stop investing in new road infrastructure. Of course we will continue to be there for cities, provinces and territories to maintain the existing network, but there will be no more envelopes from the federal government to enlarge the road network. The analysis we have done is that the network is perfectly adequate to respond to the needs we have."

https://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...ven-guilbeault

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Given that Manitoba is a have-not province and utterly dependent on Ottawa for funding of major infrastructure projects, at this rate our highway network will soon be outclassed by The Congo or Myanmar.

Considering the ideological bent of the current federal government, I was not surprised at this. I just wonder what took them this long.

“Our government has made the decision to stop investing in new road infrastructure. Of course we will continue to be there for cities, provinces and territories to maintain the existing network, but there will be no more envelopes from the federal government to enlarge the road network. The analysis we have done is that the network is perfectly adequate to respond to the needs we have."

https://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...ven-guilbeault

I know, but there are some things that need to be looked at. I just wish that the TCH got its much needed attention.